Value of: William Nylander

[KingsOfCali25]

Nylander for Walker/Roy, Iafallo, 2nd (not 35OA)

 

[CatchyTune]

I’d give 11 and Pateryn for Nylander (after 2nd draft lottery)

Yeah, i'm sure you would

 

[4thline]

Ya which is still right around 72-73pt pace, basically the ceiling I suggested to your post.
Are you thinking he can sustain or even better those numbers, becoming a PPG player while getting 2nd line minutes?
He'd be one of very few who can do that no?
How many 2nd line guys reach 80pts?

I suggest you take a look at his game logs under Keefe.

Tavares/Matthews +Marner/Nylander. Two first lines, each getting first line time. There's so no reason for either pair to get "2nd line minutes". When all are on PP1.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Nylander for Walker/Roy, Iafallo, 2nd (not 35OA)

That looks pretty bad offer

 

[WetcoastOrca]

So they have to spend more than other contenders and playoff teams to have an equal D? It can't be done for a comparable budget?

Sure they can do it for a comparable budget if they are willing to trade a top forward for a young top pairing D who is still on a cheap contract. Look at Colorado and a number of what I call contenders. They have Makar still on a cheap contract. But good luck acquiring those guys.
So it’s hard to see how the Leafs otherwise build a contending D by acquiring a top pairing guy without spending more or trading a top forward. And I also think they need another top four guy.
But I’m certainly open to any suggestions as to how they acquire those guys without spending more or without trading one of their better forwards.

 

[Flyer lurker]

What lesson have the leafs taught anyone... they pay a large amount for a top 6, and can’t build a legit contender behind it.

which is essentially what most people have been saying from the start

DING DING DING
No one is saying they won't make the cap in 21-22. What I am saying is it they don't make updates now you may be looking at a G combination of Campbell and Allen in 2021-2022 or a 3rd line combination that makes 3m because you had to trade Kap, AJ, and Kerfoot to add a d-man. That can make playoffs but if making the playoffs is the goal with Matthews, Marner, etc then you have the wrong goal.

 

[Qward]

From Ottawa I would trade the islanders pick plus a recent 1st round RHD Lassi Thomson for Nylander.

 

[CatchyTune]

Larsson, Broberg and our 1st pick for the 2021 draft( top 10 protected) for Nylander.

Saves Toronto money and fills a need short term and some good futures to boot. I may get some flack from oiler fans, but i think Nylander would fit nicely with Mcdavid and round out our scoring.

This is probably the most reasonable deal i've seen offered for Nylander. I dont know a lot about Broberg but being an 8th overall should say enough. Larsson would need to come with an extension though.

 

[4thline]

Sure they can do it for a comparable budget if they are willing to trade a forward for a young D who is still on a cheap contract. Look at Colorado and a number of what I call contenders. They have Makar still on a cheap contract.
But it’s hard to see how the Leafs otherwise build a contending D by acquiring a top pairing guy without spending more. And I also think they need another top four guy.
But I’m certainly open to any suggestions as to how they acquire those guys without spending more or without trading one of their better forwards.

They have Rielly and Muzzin that can both drive matchup pairs. They don't need the Makar, they need the Graves. They don't need the Pulock, they need the Mayfield.

And the fun thing is, they had two guys show the ability to be just that this season.

 

[CatchyTune]

From Ottawa I would trade the islanders pick plus a recent 1st round RHD Lassi Thomson for Nylander.

Theres no chance we move him for futures to a division rival.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Theres no chance we move him for futures to a division rival.

I mean realistically are they looking for a

nylander for futures style trade

or are they lookin for a win now style trade

 

[Legion34]

How many years before has there been a pandemic?

I guess this is where we differ. The pandemic does not hurt the leafs. In many ways it actually helps.

it would if toronto was the only team that was right to the cap and there were offer sheet threats.
But multiple teams are up against it.

Toronto has

1.) their core signed at relatively reasonable cap hits for an 81.5-82.5 cap.
Not steals in cap by any stretch. And they don’t get the cap jump to make them steals... but other teams don’t either

2.) all players have less on their cap hits due to front loading.

3.) no brutal long term contracts to old stars.

toronto has Massive flexibility if they want to go nuclear. Matthews/marner/nylander/kappy/AJ/muzzin/Ttavares

have all had tons of their real money paid out. JT and muzz have trade protection.

The cap hurts big money teams in times of “growth”. Big money teams are limited how they can spend and everyone else can keep up.

Now. How many teams will be able to pay full price? Will be able to give SB?

the teams with cap space will be very unlikely
To have the money to pay out.

 

[CatchyTune]

I mean realistically are they looking for a

nylander for futures style trade

or are they lookin for a win now style trade

I see 0 reason to move Nylander for pure futures while we are looking to contend. Why would we are selling a 24 year old 70-ish point winger on a steal of a contract for futures?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

They have Rielly and Muzzin that can both drive matchup pairs. They don't need the Makar, they need the Graves. They don't need the Pulock, they need the Mayfield.

And the fun thing is, they had two guys show the ability to be just that this season.

Agree to disagree. I don’t think Rielly and Muzzin are a good enough base. I think they still need a top pairing guy to match up with the top teams. And many of those top teams have a franchise D that elevate their defense even further. The jury is still out on the rest of the Toronto D.
Imo there is no way a team with that much forward talent should be struggling just to make the playoffs. Sure injuries are an excuse as is goaltending but the true contenders overcome those obstacles.
If the goal is to win a Cup then I see a significant improvement needed to the D. If the goal is just to make the playoffs and hope for a Cinderella run, then they’re probably fine.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Why? At this point he is a #5 defenceman that won’t make much. Toronto is thin on D. TL, Sandin and Lehtonen haven’t passed him(yet).

I’d say they have.

 

[4thline]

Agree to disagree. I don’t think Rielly and Muzzin are a good enough base. .

It's not a matter of opinion. Each of those guys has equalled/ won matchup minutes with lesser partners.

They were playing at 103 point pace under Keefe through those obstacles.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

You would move William Nylander to sign Dylan Demelo or TJ Brodie

Yah if they got ELC pieces back

 

[KingsOfCali25]

That looks pretty bad offer

It's a upcoming cheap Top4 Dman, a cheap Top6 winger replacement, a Top60 pick and cap space to sign someone like Petro for Nylander.

Toronto already was asking LA at last year's TDL about Walker, so you know Leafs management would like him. It gives Toronto more depth for a run at the cup and more time for their better prospects to develop & not be rushed.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I suggest you take a look at his game logs under Keefe.

Tavares/Matthews +Marner/Nylander. Two first lines, each getting first line time. There's so no reason for either pair to get "2nd line minutes". When all are on PP1.

So you do think he could become a PPG player then with the 42 in 47 game pace as evidence?
He'd have to produce even better numbers than that pace to do it.
When you look at total TOI among all forwards this year, Nylander is 76th.
Now I get some teams are playing guys that are in roles above their skill but even if you chop off a good 15-20 guys, he still comes in around "2nd line minutes/player".

Guess we will agree to disagree. Great player though.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It's not a matter of opinion. Each of those guys has equalled/ won matchup minutes with lesser partners.

They were playing at 103 point pace under Keefe through those obstacles.

It’s definitely a matter of opinion. Imo, to be a top contender, they need another top pairing guy. They barely made the playoffs this year and with that offensive core they should be a top contender with or without injuries.
I’m not saying that Muzzin and Rielly are not two good D. I’m saying that they need another legit top 2 guy to take the team to the next level. So far the team has not shown that they can compete for the Cup with those two as the main pieces of their D core

 

[CatchyTune]

I’d say they have.

You're extremely underrating Dermott if you think Sandin and Lehtonen have passed him. I am on the "keep Dermott" train 100%, and I hope management feels the same way. Excluding UFA's, he is probably our 3rd best defenceman. He is more of a #4 but it is what it is.

I really hope to see him back next season, people forget he has dealt with multiple injuries in the past, but when he is on the ice he is rock solid. He doesnt provide much offense (which we dont need him to), but he is a rock solid, responsible defender who rarely makes a mistake.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I see 0 reason to move Nylander for pure futures while we are looking to contend. Why would we are selling a 24 year old 70-ish point winger on a steal of a contract for futures?

Oh I agree I just didn’t know what the general idea behind moving nylander was

 

[CatchyTune]

Yah if they got ELC pieces back

I think Dobson and Demelo/Brodie over Nylander makes us a worse team. But I can at least see the direction you are taking.

 

[4thline]

So you do think he could become a PPG player then with the 42 in 47 game pace as evidence?
He'd have to produce even better numbers than that pace to do it.
When you look at TOI among all forwards this year, Nylander is 76th.
Now I get some teams are playing guys that are in roles above their skill but even if you chop off a good 15-20 guys, he still comes in around "2nd line minutes/player".

Guess we will agree to disagree. Great player though.

3 1st line spots per team x 31 teams = 93 1st line spots.

16th in RW time, within a minute per game of Kucherov/Rantanen/Pastrnak

 

[CatchyTune]

Oh I agree I just didn’t know what the general idea behind moving nylander was

Me neither. Appearantly this thread was to hypothetically clear cap? Nylander isnt the type of guy you move to clear cap. A combo of Johnsson/Kerfoot/Kapanen in that case. And to sign a meh 30 year old UFA defender? Pietrangelo is a different story, but some of the names i'm seeing...