William Nylander Part XV

[Judas Tavares]

And each of those guys had a fantastic series against Washington.

That series doesn't count because
1. Its too long ago
2. Doesn't fit the narrative

Its the same for the main board people re:Matthews and the playoffs. No way they will consider the Washington series when the Boston series helps their narrative.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Don't agree on those circumstances not being there anymore. Carolina has 3 top pair calibre D in Slavin, Hamilton and Pesce. They also have Faulk and De Haan on top of that. Pretty stacked D.

Absolutely, but the comparison is still lacking a bit. It would be similar if they had one of the better d-man prospects around behind them, instead of Faulk and De Haan. The closest comparable to Jones on Carolina would be Slavin, and he's already their #1. That means very different circumstances.

Pesce and Nylander are just 1.5 years apart. So I wouldn't call Pesce and "older" player. They are at similar points in their careers. I also wouldn't call Pesce a lesser player. He's a top pair calibre D at age 23/24. Similar to Willy who is a top 6 player at age 22. Plus defensemen take longer to develop.

Yeah this is where we differ. 1½ years is quite a bit at this age. And Pesce as a top pairing guy is a stretch that I might buy, I really do like him after all, but Willy as just a top 6 is nowhere near accurate in my opinion. He's a top 10 RW talent, or close to it. If you consider him just a top 6, then I'd say you grossly underestimate him.

Andrew Berkshire's rankings are pretty much the most comprehensive statistical analysis we have, and he had Willy at #9. And the largest criticism towards his method has been about QoC, which benefits Willy. He has also noted that Willy would be several steps ahead if the sample didn't include his stint on a last-placed Leafs team. And if you widen the evaluation to other measurements, it doesn't necessarily weaken his case.

As for your last point, research has actually indicated that d-men don't take all that much longer to develop. The differences between forwards and d-men are much smaller than believed. Their curves are just a year or so apart, and the main difference is that a forward who takes a spot in the league as a teenager is almost guaranteed to develop a lot, while the same hasn't been true of d-men.

 

[jonlin]

you're talking to a wall , lol

-Dubas talked about the players buying in and making it "fit"
-Shanny talked about taking a discount
-Babs talked about taking less

which leaves me wondering why you ignore everything and instead try to spin some narrative that the team is offering a fair deal even though they've said many times in may different ways they want the players to give discounts

After throwing out 11M/yr at a FA-Tavares, I do understand why players already on the team arent too happy taking discounts when the new guy get max. It`s like you been working in a firm for years with low salary and a new guy comes in and gets much better before proving himself and then the boss tells you "you have to take less, because we alrdy paid the new guy!"...

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

One other net negative that shouldn't be ignored about Nylander's absence is the fact that he may have inadvertently just made Kapanen (who will be an RFA) more expensive due to the numbers he's putting up.

So even if Willy eventually signs for 6.5-6.7M as we hope and expect, he may have just bumped Kapanen's overall cap hit by a few million, when Kap's numbers should have been suppressed playing on the third or fourth line.

 

[WillyFirstofhisName]

The Tkachuk in Calgary? It’s been brought up on mainbords a few times. Basically flames fans said they would only trade him for Mathews. He is basically already one of the most valuable players in the league in their eyes. Personally I probably would do the trade 1 for 1.

Yes Calgary. We've made their fans mad via trades before.

Well, if Tkachuk is worth Nylander then he'll have to be paid similarly to Nylander, which makes that kinda pointless because then we're just in the same situation again.

There's potential they would need to add considering Nylander has scored more and can play center. It would be worth it if that is the case. I would do it 1 for 1. Tkachuk is younger, adds grit we lack, has history with both Matthews and Marner, bolsters our weakish LW depth for the foreseeable future, and allows Kappy to stay on the 1st line. You are definitely right about the contract though. Matthew's father was also paid handsomely.

 

[hockeywiz542]

https://www.tsn.ca/hartley-i-would-love-to-see-nylander-in-khl-1.1191920

William Nylander has until December 1 to reach a contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs, otherwise he will have to spend the year outside the NHL.

If that becomes the case, one option for Nylander will be the KHL, where his rights are held by Avangard, who drafted him in the second round of the 2013 KHL Draft. Avangard head coach Bob Hartley, formerly of the Calgary Flames, said Sunday he expects Nylander to stay in the NHL, but would welcome him to Russia with open arms.

"I would love to see him in our team. I coached his father in Zurich, and William himself is a great player, even though he is sitting without a contract," Hartley told Russia's Sport-Express, per Google Translate.

"While I do not have a specific answer to your question, I think his main goal is to play in the NHL. I hope he will sign the contract and will play in the NHL."

 

[ACC1224]

Yes Calgary. We've made their fans mad via trades before.



There's potential they would need to add considering Nylander has scored more and can play center. It would be worth it if that is the case. I would do it 1 for 1. Tkachuk is younger, adds grit we lack, has history with both Matthews and Marner, bolsters our weakish LW depth for the foreseeable future, and allows Kappy to stay on the 1st line. You are definitely right about the contract though. Matthew's father was also paid handsomely.

Leafs would be adding to Nylander to get Tkachuk, not the other way around. No chance he's available anyway.

 

[Not My Tempo]

One other net negative that shouldn't be ignored about Nylander's absence is the fact that he may have inadvertently just made Kapanen (who will be an RFA) more expensive due to the numbers he's putting up.

So even if Willy eventually signs for 6.5-6.7M as we hope and expect, he may have just bumped Kapanen's overall cap hit by a few million, when Kap's numbers should have been suppressed playing on the third or fourth line.

Kapanen is the quintessential guy you give a bridge to. If he does explode (60 points) give him the Reinhardt deal.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

After throwing out 11M/yr at a FA-Tavares, I do understand why players already on the team arent too happy taking discounts when the new guy get max. It`s like you been working in a firm for years with low salary and a new guy comes in and gets much better before proving himself and then the boss tells you "you have to take less, because we alrdy paid the new guy!"...

Sure, but I think our homegrown players understand the value of getting an ufa like Tavares onboard.
It is a bit ironic however in Williams case seeing as Tavares is the player he has said he viewed as a role model (him and Kane). So his role model signing for his team might be what prevent him from playing as a centre and earning less money. Heck, if it comes down to us trading Nylander it will come down to us signing JT.

 

[Ulysses31]

getting tougher and tougher to fit will under the kap

 

[Damisoph]

Leafs would be adding to Nylander to get Tkachuk, not the other way around. No chance he's available anyway.

I agree that Tkachuk wouldn't be available, but we would have to add to Willie to get him? The hell you say...

 

[Nooodles]

getting tougher and tougher to fit will under the kap

kaptured what you did there

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

If I play on Matthews wing can I ask for 8 million as well?

 

[Walshy7]

getting tougher and tougher to fit will under the kap

Don’t worry his contract is Kapanen just not as quick as we’d like it too

 

[hullsy47]

After throwing out 11M/yr at a FA-Tavares, I do understand why players already on the team arent too happy taking discounts when the new guy get max. It`s like you been working in a firm for years with low salary and a new guy comes in and gets much better before proving himself and then the boss tells you "you have to take less, because we alrdy paid the new guy!"...

like tavaras hasn't proven himself ,right now kappy is the consistent type winger u want with Mathews ,and he backchecks ,nylander may never play with a player of Mathews caliber again .
kappy IMO as of today oct 16 has displaced nylander ,

 

[Bluelines]

Nylander's solution is pretty simple. He is worried if he signs at 6 mil he is trade bait, so he wants to sign at 8 mil to make him untradeable.

Dubas has shown that when it comes to protecting youth over vet for a similar dollar value he will protect the youth.

Kadri is an amazing value at $4.5 mil, one of the reasons why the Leafs wont trade him. they simply cant get that production from a player at that price.

Solution, Willy signs a 3 year gap deal at around $4.5 million, now he becomes a great deal at a low ticket price and now forces Dubas hand to consider trading other players at a similar cap hit but are much older.

Willie needs to take the target off his back and put it on another players back.

 

[middletoe]

I think the plan for Toronto is to compete year in and year out, so I wouldn’t expect a rebuild anytime soon. If you’re a contender you don’t trade away cap friendly contracts, you try to acquire them.

I find it hard to imagine him leaving Toronto now. Too good of an organization, and situation, to leave. Plus he probably bleeds blue by now.

 

[Confucius]

If I play on Matthews wing can I ask for 8 million as well?

Just wait until next season when Willie wants 9 because he could have got 80 points playing with Mathews this year. lol

 

[Pookie]

so are you perfect? do you not tell your kid(s) not to something even though you've done it yourself in your past? don't we generally pass on life lessons based on what we did and wish we could change and that we know of what could happen down the pike, vs saying "hey i'm not gonna be hypocritical so never mind if i see you're doing something i think you could regret."

again. you can highlight anything you want. that has nothing to do with this, and you should stop talking about that because like Jon Snow, you know nothing about the situation.

First, of course we all make mistakes. And when we talk about them we usually acknowledge the mistake and explain why it was a mistake.

Hey kid, don’t make the same mistake I did.

Second, I don’t go and write an editorial message in the local paper directed to my kid. I speak to them. Not their friends. Not their peers. Not their coach. Not everyone at their high school.

Shanahan can tell Nylander anything he likes.

He chose to talk to him through the media.

 

[Pookie]

Kapanen is turning you into a 5 mil AAV forward Willy. I'm gonna laugh if this blows up in his punk face even further.

What’s Kapanen turning into?

Guess who is RFA and the same age as Nylander next year?

Déjà vu.

 

[BayStBullies]

Nylander's solution is pretty simple. He is worried if he signs at 6 mil he is trade bait, so he wants to sign at 8 mil to make him untradeable.

Can you provide a source for this? I've never heard him say any of these things.

 

[Ratboy]

What’s Kapanen turning into?

Guess who is RFA and the same age as Nylander next year?

Déjà vu.

How do you know Kapanen will approach the situation in a similar manner? Especially if Dubas holds his ground and shows Nylander that he won't give out ridiculous deals. I mean, at this point all we can do is speculate about anything, or what info the media gives us and how accurate it is.

Who the hell knows if Kapanen keeps this up?

What if Lilly makes the team next year, and then three years later he's an RFA who dares to hold out too? What if.. what if...

 

[rumman]

Leaf fans. We have severely short memories. I, however, remember Nylander. He is a very skilled player and it would suck to lose him. I wouldnt trade him for anything less than Trouba or Parayko.

that ain't happening. no way you get Parayko for Nylander, and even if you could convince the Jets to part with Trouba, he doesn't want to play in Canada after this contract.

 

[Bluelines]

Can you provide a source for this? I've never heard him say any of these things.

I haven't seen any articles just discussions on the TV, Dregger, LeBrun, MacKenzie, Kyper, Friedman have all discussed this is a fear of Willie's on TV.

 

[Trapper]

What’s Kapanen turning into?

Guess who is RFA and the same age as Nylander next year?

Déjà vu.

Kapanen doesn't have 2 60 point seasons under his belt currently.
I'm not denying his talent but he will have to prove more than 1 year playing with Matthews. Kapanen is perfect for a 2 year contract at a Hyman salary to start.
Then if he maintains, we deal with what comes next.