Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

[Ned Bouhalassa]

Cool picture. Gretzky is still GOAT, Orr is top 3

Not GOAT? How about winning the scoring title as a defenseman, twice? 8 consecutive Norris?

 

[ricky0034]

Gretzky, Gretzky, blah, blah, blah...

close but you got the first name wrong

 

[Individual 1]

No you cannot have 2+ GOATS at the same time, that makes them not the GOAT.
Orr was the GOAT in his time as was and still is Gretzky.

You absolutely can have 2 GOAT caliber talents active at the same time just look at Federer and Nadal.

 

[steleh]

Well I was under the impression we were talking about the major marketable sports of North America, poor wording on my part I guess. Regardless I don’t follow wrestling and I don’t know who that is.

Relative to his peers I don’t see another athlete that was as physically talented at his sport. Even someone like tiger didn’t have anywhere near the physical edge that Lemieux did. Jordan was amazing but statistically Lemieux has only one pear imo, Gretzky; so mix his immense talent with nearly unprecedented production and he’s on a level that others just didn’t achieve. If he’d been completely healthy I think he surpasses Gretzky’s career.

This is Alexander Karelin

 

[Isaak16]

This is Alexander Karelin

Cool man

 

[unknown33]

Because the sport has a tiny talent pool compared to every other major professional sport.

Wouldn't this make it easier for a single player to dominate?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I wonder who the HFBoards poster GOAT is.

Now THAT is the big question

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

I disagree. Taking your points scores example, the top of that list is full of players considered GOATs overall or at their position. Abdul-Jabbar, Malone, Kobe, Wilt, Jordan, LeBron, Shaq. All those players are either arguably the best ever at their position or best ever overall. Only Dirk Nowitzki in the Top 8 career scoring leaders arguably isn’t and even he has a strong case for inclusion.

Football is also interesting. If you go by touchdowns scored, again you find a bunch of GOATs at their positions: Rice, Moss, TO, Carter, Harrison at WR; LT, Faulk, Jim Brown, Payton, Emmitt Smith, Marcus Allen at RB; Gates, Gonzalez at TE. All have very strong cases as the best ever at their position. For QBs you have Manning, Brady, Favre, Marino, Brees in the top 5 and I don’t think it’s debatable that any of those aren’t GOATs

Hockey is the one sport where it seems that arguably being the best ever scoring isn’t even worthy of mention as a GOAT, which is rather baffling. Ovechkin is already undoubtedly the best LW in NHL history. He is arguably the 2nd best winger period behind Howe. How is that not GOAT territory? People don’t trash Brady or Manning for only throwing touchdowns and not being able to rush the ball or catch a pass. People don’t count it against Jim Brown or Jerry Rice that they only played one role and never passed the ball. We don’t trash MJ or Kobe for not being elite rebounders. Why is it only hockey where unless a player in elite in every single aspect of the game they can’t be a GOAT? No other sport demands that ridiculous standard on their players. I feel like this GOAT standard makes it impossible for any player who isn’t a center or simply a total freak of nature like Howe/Orr to ever be considered the “best ever” at anything.

When it’s all said and done Ovechkin will go down at a top 10 player of all-time, maybe even 5th when you simply consider accomplishments and not ‘what ifs’. Being one of the 5-10 best players in your leagues 102 year history damn well seems like GOAT territory for me.

Too bad GOAT means “Greatest of All Time”.

Ovechkin will simply never be the greatest of all time.

 

[MikeGrier99]

I would argue hockey has the two greatest players in the history of sport with Wayne and Mario. I also believe Lemieux to be the greatest physical talent, relative to his pears, in the history of sport.

It’s going to take some insane specimen to usurp those two.

A case can be made for lots of athletic freaks being the goat of goats. I think Bradman and Bolt have eclipsed Gretzky as far as gaudy stats go. Also major bonus points to a guy like Messi who dominated a sport with a player base perhaps a thousand times or more bigger than hockey's.

Don Bradman - Wikipedia

Usain Bolt - Wikipedia

Michael Phelps - Wikipedia

Lionel Messi - Wikipedia

Roger Federer - Wikipedia

Tom Brady - Wikipedia

Id give Bradman the goat of goats any day though. Hes like a baseball player with a career .500 batting average in a sport with a larger playing base than hockey.

 

[Alwalys]

You absolutely can have 2 GOAT caliber talents active at the same time just look at Federer and Nadal.

yeah this is not a hard concept. if you have 2 talents of a similar caliber, neither is GOAT.

 

[Machinehead]

Nobody in the history of NA pro sports clowned their peers quite like Gretzky did.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Bettman.

Cringe.

Canuck fan Blaming Bettman in other news tsn and sports net will talk about the leafs a lot this year. We will hear more about Jason spezza and Tyson Barrie then we have in all the years the two have been in league
Combined.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

What I love about hockey is that the two greatest players ever only won two cups each as players.

It shows just how much of a team game
Hockey is and that stars being defined by cups with their legacy (while that’s not going away) it’s kind of unfair.

Adam Oates is one of the best playmakers ever, Even though I didn’t like him Sundin was one of
The most consistent players of his time and luongo and Joseph are two of the greatest ever and and both never won the cup. IGgy, alfredsson, sedins and maybe Thornton and Marleau too. There’s obviously others in the past even more deserving then some of these bands Dionne? Or gartner how about howerchhuk, think some of them got cups just drawing a blank.

Hasek looked like he was even going to perhaps even not win one despite literally dragging four awful sabres teams (well mediocre anyway) in 97-98-99 and 01 so consecutively he helped lead his team to the the final eight (second round) in every one of those four of those five years and then the final four twice (98,99) , and the final two once (99) and almost the cup that year, whilst winning vezinas and Hart’s and everything else. Yet still didn’t get a cup until Detroit, he was so good that he got one in his first try with a diffferent team In 02, That means hasek took his team to the final 8 in five out of six years from 97-02. Incredible. its crazy is in 01 his last year as a sabres buffalo was up 3-2 on the pens in the series but lost the bet two games in overtime so he almost made another conference final with a mediocre buffalo
Team then too. Just point is you need to Be on a good team. Even as a goalie.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

NFL - Brady
MLB - None
NBA - None
NHL - None

Looks normal for the NHL

 

[illpucks]

Consistency. Malkin could be the GOAT if he was as consistent as Sid. His best is GOAT caliber. But he is always injured

 

[CartographerNo611]

NFL - Brady
MLB - None
NBA - None
NHL - None

Looks normal for the NHL

The NBA had Byrant and James at the same time at one point. James is going down top 3 all time and Byant is easy top 5. MLB is very hard to do since there are studs always rotating in and out. Jeter and A-rod maybe?

NHL just dont know how to market or let personalities loose. Plus parity is killing them since no one really stands out from the rest. Maybe Mcdavid but a rock has more personality than that guy and he aint playing in a big US market lmao.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Nadal and Djokovic are both better than Federer.

How long have you been watching tennis for? Federer is a fair bit older than Nadal and Djok.
Also this:

 

[bambamcam4ever]

LeBron's case for GOAT really isn't that much better than Crosby's.

Championships - Both have 3.

Scoring Titles - Crosby has 2, LeBron has 1.

MVP (Hart Trophy in the NHL): Crosby has 2, LeBron has 4.

Finals Record: Crosby has a winning record in the Finals (3 wins, 1 loss), LeBron has a losing record (3 wins, 6 losses).

Jordan has 6 titles (more than Gretzky), including two 3-peats, 10 scoring titles (same as Gretzky), 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, undefeated 6-0 in the Finals, highest PPG in NBA history (both regular season and playoffs), and a Defensive player of the year award to boot which is ridiculous given his scoring.

In basketball there's more individual hype which gullible younger kids get suckered into, which is why LeBron gets consideration, but really his career is not that much better than Crosby's. He is definitely by most objective standards far below Jordan, just as Crosby is to Gretzky.

Crosby would probably have another scoring title and MVP at least if it weren't for concussion problems.

LeBron is significantly better than Jordan. Using scoring titles to judge a basketball player isn't worth a response.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Hockey has a problem protecting their marquee talents.

The game is geared towards refs managing games, keeping scores close, and evening up calls.


It's one of the only sports where interference on stars is allowed, and encouraged.

The NHL is terrified that fans will perceive that stars get preferential treatment.

 

[RangerDoggo]

The NHL isn’t as high scoring as it was in Gretzky’s day, and probably won’t be again.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I thought that there might be an argument that this is largely due to Sidney Crosby's injuries and playing in a lower scoring era, but statistically speaking, that isn't the case.

Crosby Season	Crosby Era-Adjusted Points per 82 games
2005-2006	100
2006-2007	127
2007-2008	121
2008-2009	113
2009-2010	118
2010-2011	142
2011-2012	153
2013	141
2013-2014	119
2014-2015	99
2015-2016	98
2016-2017	107
2017-2018	92
2018-2019	104

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gretzky Season	Gretzky Era-Adjusted Points Per 82 Games
1979-1980	121
1980-1981	130
1981-1982	160
1982-1982	163
1983-1984	181
1984-1985	170
1985-1986	174
1986-1987	161
1987-1988	159
1988-1989	146
1989-1990	135
1990-1991	153
1991-1992	120
1992-1993	95
1993-1994	120
1994-1995	83
1995-1996	99
1996-1997	101
1997-1998	103
1998-1999	82

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Seems to me like a healthy Crosby from 2010-2011 through 2013, on a per game basis, was roughly on par with Gretzky in his first 3 seasons in Los Angeles, which were from 1988-1989 through 1990-1991. But even if Crosby sustained that pace over full 82 game seasons, he would have been nowhere close to Gretzky at his best.

And not close to Lemieux either, for that matter. Interestingly enough, this comparison actually suggests that Lemieux was the guy who was roughly on par with Gretzky if not for injuries.

Lemieux Season	Lemieux Era-Adjusted Points Per 82 Games
1984-1985	89
1985-1986	114
1986-1987	118
1987-1988	150
1988-1989	178
1989-1990	143
1990-1991	126
1991-1992	149
1992-1993	176
1993-1994	123
1995-1996	183
1996-1997	137
2000-2001	156
2001-2002	120
2002-2003	125
2003-2004	82
2005-2006	66

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

In their careers, Lemieux averaged 132 adjusted points per 82 games per season, while Gretzky averaged 133. But if you just remove Lemieux's 2005-2006 season where he only played 26 games and was below a point per game, Lemieux's average becomes 136 adjusted points per 82 games per season. And Lemieux's best season of 183 adjusted points per 82 games is superior to Gretzky's best of 181. And Lemieux has two other seasons where his total surpassed Gretzky's second best season.

 

[valet]

I think it's more recency bias than anything tbh.... We're watching all of these players now and see their flaws so we're not looking at it with rose tinted glasses like we do with the greats. Imo Crosby and Ovi are definitely in the greatest players conversation. It'll be interesting to see how they are perceived in 20 years. Same with mcdavid. Just on a different level than the competition

 

[Individual 1]

yeah this is not a hard concept. if you have 2 talents of a similar caliber, neither is GOAT.

Ok, so which male tennis player is better than Federer and Nadal?

 

[weastern bias]

LeBron is significantly better than Jordan. Using scoring titles to judge a basketball player isn't worth a response.

Even if you think James is better than Jordan (he's not), there's no way to argue he's significantly better

Lebron James is probably like the 6th or 7th best player ever, and there's no shame in that, he's AN all-time great, just not THE all-time great

 

[Atas2000]

Because Gretzky is the greatest greatest player at his sport ever outside of Don Bradman in Cricket

LOL, western bias