Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by johntanner1787, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. johntanner1787

    johntanner1787 Registered User

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    Every other sport seems to have produced at least one GOAT-level player while no one has come remotely close to entering that zone in hockey since Mario retired. Crosby and Ovi are great and all but they're simply not on that level, and one can argue that neither of them are even top 10 players of all time; it's also wayyyyy too early to put McDavid near that category.

    Additionally, no goalie since Brodeur has been a GOAT or high-end ATG goalie either. There's probably a greater depth of goalies rn but none of them are exactly standout generational goalies.

    Is it just the nature of the game in terms of how much it's changed or have prior greats like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, etc. set the bar too high for anyone to reach?
     
  2. McLovin

    McLovin Tier 2 fan

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    Let's storm Aera 51 and find out the secrets behind this phenomenon.
     
  3. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    Because we produced one of the GOAT of GOATs
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  4. deckercky

    deckercky Registered User

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    Bettman.
     
  5. Voight

    Voight #winning

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    MJ for example is obviously the best basketball player of all time, but he's behind Gretzky in the trophy count.

    Bit of a higher standard for NHL players to reach.
     
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  6. tealhockey

    tealhockey @overtheboards

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    Mcdavid is pretty insane but hockey is a sport with four lines, teams win as teams not with a Lebron type player imo. I don't know if any other sport exists where depth matters to the extent that it does in this game. Even the most elite players (ie top tier defensemen) can barely play half the game. Big reason to me why the marner situation is fascinating because a guy like that is worth probably 10M or so but not when you already pay two other forwards well over that, need to pay the team around them as well. Teams that go far have a good mix.
     
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  7. leafsfan5

    leafsfan5 Registered User

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    Because Gretzky is pretty much impossible to reach
     
  8. God Bless Mr Gritty

    God Bless Mr Gritty Sweet James Jones

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    I think you're really asking why hockey hasn't produced a conversation around whether its current top players are actually the GOATs, or whatever. That's a media question, with the very obvious conclusion that its hype sphere is contained.

    Most of the MLB players with the highest batting averages are dead. Football is a monstrous mess and it's hard to separate a great player from a great team (or scheme). There are numerous NBA players who have won more championships than Lebron, Kobe, or MJ....and while current players might have more impressive offensive numbers, basketball has shifted towards increased offense rather than away from it, as hockey has. Hell, call me when the 1.5-goal line has been created.

    Crosby might be the best hockey player to ever live. He might actually be better than Gretzky, but the way the game is played today won't tell you that. Likewise, Mike Trout might be better than Ty Cobb, but short of reanimating one to play today or sending the other back in time, you'll never know.

    It's all a construct.

    EDIT: Now, an addendum to that is this: Gretzky, as mentioned above, is a massive barrier. He really might be the greatest team-sport athlete to ever live, and if you dropped him in the game today he'd put up terrific numbers still. But he wouldn't be scoring 200 points, we all know that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  9. FissionFire

    FissionFire Registered User

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    Ovechkin is definitely in GOAT territory for conversations of best all-time goal scorers. I mean you have Gretzky, Bossy, and Ovechkin as your top 3 probably. I mean when all is said and done Ovechkin could wind up 2nd all time in goals and you don’t think that’s GOAT territory?

    EDIT: Forgot to mention Bobby Hull
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  10. Individual 1

    Individual 1 Registered User

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    Ovi can wind up 1st all time in goals and still have essentially zero argument for breaking into the top 4 of all time, which is what the OP means by hockey has not produced a goat calibre player in the last decade or so.
     
  11. BuckNashty

    BuckNashty Registered User

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    I seriously think Crosby could’ve been that GOAT-tier player if not for injuries. During his injury plagued years, he scored at a ridiculous clip:

    2006-07: 72P in 53 GP (111 point pace)
    2010-11: 66P in 41 GP (132 point pace)
    2011-12: 37P in 22 GP (137 point pace)
    2012-13: 56P in 36GP (127 point pace, or 75 points in the shortened season)

    Even if you assume he cools down and finishes around 5–15 points less than his projected totals, Crosby still wins the Ross comfortably in 2011, 2012, and 2013, and presumably takes the Hart those seasons as well.

    Add that to his 3 Cups, 2 Smythes, 2 Rockets, 2 Rosses and 2 Harts and you got a resume stacked enough to challenge anyone not named Wayne or Mario.
     
  12. NHLpls

    NHLpls Registered User

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    Its a good thing when records aren't being broken left and right because it means the league isn't tampering with the rules. I'm looking at you NFL and MLB.
     
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  13. Phu

    Phu Registered User

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    what other sports have produced a GOAT in the last 10 years?
     
  14. weastern bias

    weastern bias Yer fired Patrick

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    Because Gretzky is the greatest greatest player at his sport ever outside of Don Bradman in Cricket
     
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  15. BuckNashty

    BuckNashty Registered User

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    Maybe not the past 10 years, but definitely in this century, we’ve seen LeBron, Brady, Manning, Tiger, Nadal, Serena, Trout, Messi, and Ronaldo all build strong cases for GOAT in their respective sports.
     
  16. Hockey4Lyfe

    Hockey4Lyfe Registered User

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    Ovechkin could pass Gretzky in goals and he still wouldn’t be brought up as the greatest of all time. the OP is talking about overall players. Not just one aspect of a sport.

    No one really cares in who has the most points in basketball or the most touchdowns in football. GOATS produce in every aspect and win multiple titles with their team. Ovechkin will never be talked about as a GOAT of hockey.
     
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  17. Hockey4Lyfe

    Hockey4Lyfe Registered User

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    As others have already said, if Mike Trout keeps going the way he is, for another 10+ years... he will go down as the GOAT baseball player.
     
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  18. Phu

    Phu Registered User

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    Take any of these that have 2 or more on the list and throw them out by definition.
    That leaves Lebron who clearly has Jordan to contend with for GOAT, Tiger who is probably 2nd GOAT but is pretty clearly not GOAT and hasn't been GOAT level for more than 10 years. Then whoever the **** trout is.

    I think the opposite is actually true, the confluence of sports and science has created a more competitive environment than ever, which levels out the playing field among teams and even individual talent, such that no one can elevate that much above others anymore.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  19. SniperHF

    SniperHF You might surprise yourself

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    Crosby is around top 10 and he's not done, he won't crack top 5 but that's pretty good. I'd say that's plenty good for a league's top talent over 1.5 decades. If the best player in the league didn't crack top 50 all time or so at any given point (at least potentially) I'd be worried about it.

    10 years is a long time to attach an if to even in baseball and even then he'd only be around tied with Ruth not obviously better. Let's not forget that Ruth was also a near ace level pitcher at times. He's still today ranked 82nd in WHIP all time. Trout has a mostly clear path to being #2 though if healthy depending on where you'd rank a few pitchers. If he doesn't decline basically at all till his mid 30's it will be debatable. Gretzky is considered likely untouchable aside from a few weirdos ( you should at least own it if you're one of them :P). Ruth should be considered almost the same level, though not quite.
     
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  20. agent082

    agent082 Registered User

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    Hockey has been unlucky. Maybe their GOAT retired as a kid.
     
  21. jetsforever

    jetsforever Registered User

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    This is OT, but you definitely misspelled Federer
     
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  22. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    Nadal and Djokovic are both better than Federer.
     
  23. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    Because no other sport had a Wayne Gretzky.
     
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  24. Limekiller

    Limekiller Registered User

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    Who has the NFL produced at that level in the last 10 years? Brady has been playing for a lot longer than that, and there are still people that would argue he's not head and shoulders above Bart Starr and Joe Montana. The only truly unquestionable GOAT I can remember in my lifetime in football was Jerry Rice. There's no other WR even close to being in that conversation. Had Barry Sanders kept playing, he'd probably be in that category too, as he was easily the best RB I've ever seen play, but he retired too early.
     
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  25. Isaak16

    Isaak16 The Universe Is Here

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    I would argue hockey has the two greatest players in the history of sport with Wayne and Mario. I also believe Lemieux to be the greatest physical talent, relative to his pears, in the history of sport.

    It’s going to take some insane specimen to usurp those two.
     
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