Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

[Alwalys]

Ok, so which male tennis player is better than Federer and Nadal?

Nadal and Federer. this is child's play, it's not that hard to understand.

 

[leafsfan5]

LeBron's case for GOAT really isn't that much better than Crosby's.

Championships - Both have 3.

Scoring Titles - Crosby has 2, LeBron has 1.

MVP (Hart Trophy in the NHL): Crosby has 2, LeBron has 4.

Finals Record: Crosby has a winning record in the Finals (3 wins, 1 loss), LeBron has a losing record (3 wins, 6 losses).

Jordan has 6 titles (more than Gretzky), including two 3-peats, 10 scoring titles (same as Gretzky), 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, undefeated 6-0 in the Finals, highest PPG in NBA history (both regular season and playoffs), and a Defensive player of the year award to boot which is ridiculous given his scoring.

In basketball there's more individual hype which gullible younger kids get suckered into, which is why LeBron gets consideration, but really his career is not that much better than Crosby's. He is definitely by most objective standards far below Jordan, just as Crosby is to Gretzky.

Crosby would probably have another scoring title and MVP at least if it weren't for concussion problems.

Jordan is better than Lebron, but the finals record argument is dumb. How many of those finals losses are ones Lebron is responsible for? 2007 can't be held against him, same with 2015, 2017, and 2018. He should honestly be held accountable for a max of 2 of the finals he's lost (2011 obviously, and maybe 2014). Talking about him having a "losing" finals record is blaming him for carrying sorry teams like the 07 and 18 Cavs to the finals. Should he have lost in round one instead so he has a cleaner finals record??? He's being punished for advancing far in the playoffs lol

 

[King Mapes]

Because Gretzky is pretty much impossible to reach

This. But so is Jordan. Basketball never produced one either. So I’m not sure I agree with the OP. Baseball there is slot more argument. Gretzkys dominance is impossible to reach.

 

[King Mapes]

LeBron's case for GOAT really isn't that much better than Crosby's.

Championships - Both have 3.

Scoring Titles - Crosby has 2, LeBron has 1.

MVP (Hart Trophy in the NHL): Crosby has 2, LeBron has 4.

Finals Record: Crosby has a winning record in the Finals (3 wins, 1 loss), LeBron has a losing record (3 wins, 6 losses).

Jordan has 6 titles (more than Gretzky), including two 3-peats, 10 scoring titles (same as Gretzky), 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, undefeated 6-0 in the Finals, highest PPG in NBA history (both regular season and playoffs), and a Defensive player of the year award to boot which is ridiculous given his scoring.

In basketball there's more individual hype which gullible younger kids get suckered into, which is why LeBron gets consideration, but really his career is not that much better than Crosby's. He is definitely by most objective standards far below Jordan, just as Crosby is to Gretzky.

Crosby would probably have another scoring title and MVP at least if it weren't for concussion problems.

If I remember right didn’t Jordan technically win 6 in a row? I think he “retired” after the first 3 peat after the death of his dad to play baseball then came back and won 3 straight.

Anyone who says LJ is better than Jordan didn’t watch Jordan play. Is he ONE of best best? Obviously but he doesn’t touch Jordan.

 

[Turin]

Because hockey as a sport has radically developed since 1980. Nutrition, fitness, talent pool, coaching, equipment have all evolved. You can’t have that one or two guys who are just massive outliers ahead of their time like Mario and Wayne in the current hockey climate.

 

[Soundwave]

If I remember right didn’t Jordan technically win 6 in a row? I think he “retired” after the first 3 peat after the death of his dad to play baseball then came back and won 3 straight.

Anyone who says LJ is better than Jordan didn’t watch Jordan play. Is he ONE of best best? Obviously but he doesn’t touch Jordan.

He won six in a row if you're talking about full seasons he played in. The Bulls lost in 1995 to the Magic with him, but he was joining the team very late in the season out of basketball shape that year. The next year where he had a full training camp + regular season they won the title and would win another two after that, so a second threepeat.

Also that season (95-96) is probably the greatest season in NBA history -- a then record 72 wins + a championship, so he has that on his resume too (best player on the team with the greatest full season ... sorry Golden State).

 

[daver]

If in 50 years this thread can still be made, the idea that the three players who put up the most gaudy offensive numbers in league history came during the 25 year period where the league increased its teams five times creating an unstable environment over causing scoring to reach unprecedented levels should hold some weight. This perhaps will give more value to other era best talents who did not put up similar offensive domination.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Djokovic > Federer/Nadal.

I disagree, but Tennis is absolutely fascinating since you can make an argument for three current players as the best of all time. Their dominance of their era is pretty unprecedented in any sport, even though soccer comes close with Ronaldo/Messi.

 

[unknown33]

Because hockey as a sport has radically developed since 1980. Nutrition, fitness, talent pool, coaching, equipment have all evolved. You can’t have that one or two guys who are just massive outliers ahead of their time like Mario and Wayne in the current hockey climate.

This doesn't make much sense. Football (soccer) has two guys like that.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I think the game has changed so much that no one will ever catch Gretzky's records, so everyone thinks Gretzky is the GOAT.

Just look at the goalie's back then, you could score on basically any shot, so many of the goals would now be considered soft for a goalie to let in.

A lot of other major sports haven't changed as much.

IMO you can't just look at Gretzky's records and automatically call him the GOAT (Although he may still be).

 

[TBF1972]

Because McDavid is stuck in Edmonton on a badly mismanaged team. Without any team success it's tough to get the GOAT conversation started in a team sports.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

So there are five or six better basketball players better than LeBron? I'd like to hear them.

In reality, Jordan had a better mid-range shot, FT shooting, was quicker due to being shorter, and had better layup finishing ability yet was less effective at scoring at the rim due to James' combination of height, size and quickness. LeBron is better at everything else. He simply makes those around him better in ways Jordan did not.

How do you figure Lebron is better around the rim than Jordan? Jordan going to the basket has no equal. Did you watch Jordan in the 80s? Or are you only talking about Jordan in the 90s? Lebron is a better passer and he is bigger, other than that....
Jordan was better than Lebron offensively and defensively.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

If I remember right didn’t Jordan technically win 6 in a row? I think he “retired” after the first 3 peat after the death of his dad to play baseball then came back and won 3 straight.

Anyone who says LJ is better than Jordan didn’t watch Jordan play. Is he ONE of best best? Obviously but he doesn’t touch Jordan.

Yes. That is correct.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

I think the game has changed so much that no one will ever catch Gretzky's records, so everyone thinks Gretzky is the GOAT.

Just look at the goalie's back then, you could score on basically any shot, so many of the goals would now be considered soft for a goalie to let in.

A lot of other major sports haven't changed as much.

IMO you can't just look at Gretzky's records and automatically call him the GOAT (Although he may still be).

Well yes, the goalie equipment was different and the goalies played differently. But the skaters also used different sticks and skates. Not even close to the equipment that they use today. Today's players with that equipment don't shoot and skate nearly the same as they do now. Plus, everybody was shooting at the same goalies, and nobody came close to Gretzky's records.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Gretzky's career is impossible to reach in modern NHL. The league has evolved differently than the other sports. Jagr, Sid, Geno, OV, McDavid would have put up 150-200 point seasons in the 1980's too.

But you can make an argument that OV may go down as the best goal scorer in history. If Price didn't waste his career in Montreal he could have challenged Brodeur's career under the right circumstance.
Crosby, while barely half the player than Mario was, has achieved far more than Mario ever has.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I see the term GOAT is being over used just like "Generational Player" is.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Well yes, the goalie equipment was different and the goalies played differently. But the skaters also used different sticks and skates. Not even close to the equipment that they use today. Today's players with that equipment don't shoot and skate nearly the same as they do now. Plus, everybody was shooting at the same goalies, and nobody came close to Gretzky's records.

That all makes sense, but who's to say anyone will get anywhere close to McDavid's records (from players in his era) ?

I'm just saying you can't look an Gretzky's records from that era and compare it to a player in this era. The records he set are way harder to achieve in today's game then they were when he played.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

He can easily be the GOAT goal scorer, which makes him a GOAT.

No it doesn’t.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Every other sport seems to have produced at least one GOAT-level player while no one has come remotely close to entering that zone in hockey since Mario retired. Crosby and Ovi are great and all but they're simply not on that level, and one can argue that neither of them are even top 10 players of all time; it's also wayyyyy too early to put McDavid near that category.

Additionally, no goalie since Brodeur has been a GOAT or high-end ATG goalie either. There's probably a greater depth of goalies rn but none of them are exactly standout generational goalies.

Is it just the nature of the game in terms of how much it's changed or have prior greats like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, etc. set the bar too high for anyone to reach?

GOAT players should be rare. We had Gretzky and Lemieus at the same time. Howe overlapped Orr somewhat. I think it's normal to have this kind of tightness among the upper echelon.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I would argue hockey has the two greatest players in the history of sport with Wayne and Mario. I also believe Lemieux to be the greatest physical talent, relative to his pears, in the history of sport.

It’s going to take some insane specimen to usurp those two.

Orr already did it... before them!

 

[DannyGallivan]

Ovechkin is definitely in GOAT territory for conversations of best all-time goal scorers. I mean you have Gretzky, Bossy, and Ovechkin as your top 3 probably. I mean when all is said and done Ovechkin could wind up 2nd all time in goals and you don’t think that’s GOAT territory?

You forgot about Bobby Hull, who is among the top two or three (if you toss in Gretzky) with Ovechkin.

 

[Aceboogie]

Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer of all time

 

[Aceboogie]

Crosby/Ovy and likely McDavid are some of the best talents across the major sports when you compare them to Lebron/Kobe/Trout/Brady/Manning

 

[DannyGallivan]

Bobby Orr's legend is based on him being the best PLAYER ever with likely the highest peak of all players.

At the risk of turning this into a Gretzky versus Orr thread, I fixed it for you... .

 

[I am not exposed]

Because hockey as a sport has radically developed since 1980. Nutrition, fitness, talent pool, coaching, equipment have all evolved. You can’t have that one or two guys who are just massive outliers ahead of their time like Mario and Wayne in the current hockey climate.

And other sports haven't?