Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

[Crazy Cizikas]

Because a decade does not equal all time.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Tiger =Orr
Nicklaus= Gretzky

The thing is Woods destroys Nicklaus in every category except majors.

Saying Nicklaus is better than Woods is like saying Beliveau is better than Gretzky because he won a few more cups.

 

[Big Phil]

Okay, the NBA has Lebron as a GOAT-level guy. Brady for the NFL. Is Barry Bonds the guy that is being mentioned in the last decade that the OP is looking for? Or Mike Trout? Still a long ways before we give that title to Trout. I think other than hockey it would be baseball that probably has the hardest time being the GOAT with Ruth being a pretty darn high standard.

By the way, GOAT-level players are supposed to be special, so I have no problem with them not being common.

 

[Hattrickkane88]

If it’s still to early to tell for Mcdavid why even make this thread? Thread would be much better in 10 years wouldn’t it? Kind of stupid right now.

Also who’s the new basketball goat? Certainly not the guy with more finals losses then wins.

 

[Eisen]

Having more than one “GOAT” is the exact opposite of the meaning aka an oxymoron. There can only be one and The Great One was perhaps too great. McDavid has the possibility to threaten statisticly but it’s painfully obvious he will struggle to win cups.

Injuries have and will play a roll in this argument: Lemieux and Crosby are good examples.

He doesn't as good as he is. He will not win a Ross by the margin Gretzky did. Nor will he sniff at the totals nor the single seasons.

 

[lomiller1]

In most cases people claiming players are GOAT caliber are simply dismissing much of the history of the sport. What recent NBA player put numbers like this:
27.0 rebounds 37.6 points
27.2 rebounds 38.4 points
25.7 rebounds 50.4 points
24.3 rebounds 44.8 points
22.3 rebounds 36.9 points
23.5 rebounds 38.9 points

 

[Garbage Goal]

Have other sports? Only one of the other big three I know of that being the case is the NBA and that’s a star driven league and a very individualized sport.

These GOAT conversations are always media driven and the media don’t exactly chase intellectual conversation, they’re after clicks and like to play things safe generally.

In reality, it’s there likely have been some players in the GOAT conversation produced but you’ll never know because the rules, equipment, and competition level has changed dramatically to the point where it’s a different game. Which is why I think these GOAT conversations are stupid to begin with because you really are comparing a different game from today if you go back farther than twenty or so years.

Ovechkin is probably in the greatest goal scorer conversation and Crosby might be in the GOAT conversation, nobody will ever actually know though.

 

[Sentinel]

Crosby never gets hurt, he’s right up there with Gretzky and Orr imo.

Even at his best, in his best season, he didn't dominate his peers the way those two did. In fact, Ovechkin and Malkin had better individual seasons than Crosby's best.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I did not know either Michael Jordon or Magic Johnson were still playing basketball or that Babe Ruth was still in MLB or PELE was still playing soccer(football)

Really only the NFL has someone playing right now that is the discussion for greatest of all time.

Crosby will be in the discussion in some circles and if he stays healthy McDavid could go down as one of the greats

 

[MadLuke]

LeBron is not a GOAT. Gretzky is a GOAT of all GOATs. Simple. It might take a 100 years to replace Gretzky although I am sure marketing will start claiming someone surpassing him as soon as it is remotely feasible. See LeBron.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Value Over Replacement Player | Basketball-Reference.com
Regular season value over replacement career:

Rank	Player	VORP
1.	LeBron James	129.79
2.	Michael Jordan*	104.43
3.	Karl Malone*	102.52
4.	Kevin Garnett	93.97
5.	Charles Barkley*	93.53
6.	Tim Duncan	89.31
7.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	86.03
8.	David Robinson*	80.87
9.	Julius Erving*	79.90
10.	Larry Bird*	79.74

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Win share:

Rank	Player	WS
1.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	273.41
2.	Wilt Chamberlain*	247.26
3.	Karl Malone*	234.63
4.	LeBron James	226.60
5.	Michael Jordan*	214.02

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

playoff value over replacement:

Rank	Player	VORP
1.	LeBron James	33.10
2.	Michael Jordan*	22.85
3.	Tim Duncan	18.59
4.	Magic Johnson*	17.83
5.	Scottie Pippen*	16.09
6.	Larry Bird*	15.37
7.	Shaquille O'Neal*	14.96
8.	Kobe Bryant	13.99
9.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	13.21
10.	Hakeem Olajuwon*	13.19

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

playoff win share:

Rank	Player	WS
1.	LeBron James	51.00
2.	Michael Jordan*	39.76
3.	Tim Duncan	37.84
4.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	35.56
5.	Magic Johnson*	32.63
6.	Wilt Chamberlain*	31.46
7.	Shaquille O'Neal*	31.08
8.	Kobe Bryant	28.26
9.	Bill Russell*	27.76
10.	Julius Erving*	26.89

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Regular season point:

Rank	Player	PTS
1.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	38387
2.	Karl Malone*	36928
3.	Kobe Bryant	33643
4.	LeBron James	32543
5.	Michael Jordan*	32292
6.	Dirk Nowitzki	31560
7.	Wilt Chamberlain*	31419
8.	Julius Erving*	30026
9.	Moses Malone*	29580
10.	Shaquille O'Neal*	28596

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playoff points

Rank	Player	PTS
1.	LeBron James	6911
2.	Michael Jordan*	5987
3.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	5762
4.	Kobe Bryant	5640
5.	Shaquille O'Neal*	5250

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playoff assist:

Rank	Player	AST
1.	Magic Johnson*	2346
2.	John Stockton*	1839
3.	LeBron James	1687
4.	Jason Kidd*	1263
5.	Tony Parker	1143
6.	Larry Bird*	1062
7.	Steve Nash*	1061
8.	Scottie Pippen*	1048
9.	Kobe Bryant	1040
10.	Michael Jordan*	1022

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

playoff rebound:

Rank	Player	TRB
1.	Bill Russell*	4104
2.	Wilt Chamberlain*	3913
3.	Tim Duncan	2859
4.	Shaquille O'Neal*	2508
5.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	2481
6.	LeBron James	2122
7.	Karl Malone*	2062
8.	Wes Unseld*	1777
9.	Robert Parish*	1765
10.	Elgin Baylor*	1724

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He is building quite the argument for himself, to be at least in the goat caliber tier.

 

[Maestro84]

I did not know either Michael Jordon or Magic Johnson were still playing basketball or that Babe Ruth was still in MLB or PELE was still playing soccer(football)

Really only the NFL has someone playing right now that is the discussion for greatest of all time.

Crosby will be in the discussion in some circles and if he stays healthy McDavid could go down as one of the greats

Pele is overrated asf.

 

[MadLuke]

Crosby never gets hurt, he’s right up there with Gretzky and Orr imo.

I doubt to be the case, when you watch something like the 1987 Canada cup, the way team Canada play Gretzky and the way he dominated :

1		Wayne Gretzky	26	F	9	3	18	21	2	-2	1	0	0	0.333	2.000	2.333
2		Mario Lemieux	21	F	9	11	7	18	8	5	5	0	4	1.222	0.778	2.000
3		Ray Bourque	26	D	9	2	6	8	10	3	2	0	0	0.222	0.667	0.889
4		Mark Messier	26	F	9	1	6	7	6	2	0	0	0	0.111	0.667	0.778
5		Larry Murphy	26	D	8	1	6	7	4	8	1	0	0	0.125	0.750	0.875

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Against one of the greatest team of all time, is a clear tier above what we saw from Crosby peak imo.

One way to see it, look how Greztky fared relative to peak Lemieux, older post Cancer Lemieux relative to Jagr, and how and old Jagr was relative to Crosby. I really doubt an relatively healthy playing over 75 game in the season under 30 year's old Greztky loose the Art Ross to Jamie Been or Sedin or anyone else not named Mario Lemieux/Gordie Howe during a peak season.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Crosby never gets hurt, he’s right up there with Gretzky and Orr imo.

Nah. Having watched Crosby, Jagr, and Lemieux, Crosby is more on par with Jagr. Lemieux simply sees the game at a different level, and that's what separates a Gretzky or Lemieux from a Crosby or Ovechkin.

 

[MLSE]

Jordan and Gretzky retired around the same time and nobody has touched them since.

 

[FerrisRox]

He's well on his way, especially if you consider stuff like WAR.

If he played for the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers, or even another team that can make the playoffs more often, considering him one of the best ball players of all-time already would already be a thing.

The guy turned 28 a week ago. It's way too early to pretend he's in the discussion to be the best player of all time.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

what other sports have produced a GOAT in the last 10 years?

Mike Trout

 

[Future GOAT]

Because we produced one of the GOAT of GOATs

He's considered "THE" GOAT of GOATS.

 

[Future GOAT]

I did not know either Michael Jordon or Magic Johnson were still playing basketball or that Babe Ruth was still in MLB or PELE was still playing soccer(football)

Really only the NFL has someone playing right now that is the discussion for greatest of all time.

Crosby will be in the discussion in some circles and if he stays healthy McDavid could go down as one of the greats

Messi > Pele.

James > Jordan > Johnson.

It is what it is.

 

[Canes]

The guy turned 28 a week ago. It's way too early to pretend he's in the discussion to be the best player of all time.

Well, through his age 28 season most of his comparables are the best players of all time... Even if he has a Pujols like drop off late in his career he's still going to be a top 20 player of all time most likely.

 

[ottawa]

Messi > Pele.

James > Jordan > Johnson.

It is what it is.

Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Messi

You heard it here fist

 

[BlueDream]

Let me get this straight. OP is asking for somebody BETTER than McDavid or Crosby?

K buddy. Because that’s easy to do.

 

[tealhockey]

If it’s still to early to tell for Mcdavid why even make this thread? Thread would be much better in 10 years wouldn’t it? Kind of stupid right now.

Also who’s the new basketball goat? Certainly not the guy with more finals losses then wins.

I don't know that it is too early to tell if McDavid will be GOAT status.. he is on the precipice, the GOAT would be able to turn even a terrible team into a winner imo. for someone to have a GOAT quality career the clock is ticking from day one

 

[tucker3434]

Gretzky was a GOAT of GOATs. We’ve had LeBron level players.

 

[Hattrickkane88]

I don't know that it is too early to tell if McDavid will be GOAT status.. he is on the precipice, the GOAT would be able to turn even a terrible team into a winner imo. for someone to have a GOAT quality career the clock is ticking from day one

I’m not sure it’s that simple, let’s say Mcdavid and the oilers are a mess again this year, he demands a trade and Tampa trades kucherov+1sts or whatever and now Mcdavid is on Tampa, with this core I could see 4 cups in the next 6 years while putting up 140+ a season. Nobody would care about his time on the oilers except to bring up how much they held him back and he would still only be 29 years old, as long as Tampa finds ways to keep talent around him he could end up with another couple cups after 29 if not more.

Although in the end it’s points that made Gretzky the GOAT which no player will ever match, maybe if Mcdavid spent his entire career on Tampa he could come close in era adjusted scoring but his time on edmonton killed that.

 

[rfournier103]

Every other sport seems to have produced at least one GOAT-level player while no one has come remotely close to entering that zone in hockey since Mario retired. Crosby and Ovi are great and all but they're simply not on that level, and one can argue that neither of them are even top 10 players of all time; it's also wayyyyy too early to put McDavid near that category.

Additionally, no goalie since Brodeur has been a GOAT or high-end ATG goalie either. There's probably a greater depth of goalies rn but none of them are exactly standout generational goalies.

Is it just the nature of the game in terms of how much it's changed or have prior greats like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, etc. set the bar too high for anyone to reach?

Baseball and basketball haven’t spawned GOATs, either. Yes, there are amazing talents that have arisen in those sports in recent years, they don’t equal the talent of Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan, respectively.

Truthfully, the only GOAT talent that has come along in any sport since 2000 is Tom Brady in the NFL.

Getting back to the NHL...

Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, and Conor McDavid are supremely talented, but none of them are the GOAT of hockey. Wayne Gretzky is. I’ve seen all four play. I’ve seen Gretzky play in person. He’s the best hockey player I have ever seen, and his records tell me he’s the greatest.