Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

[joe dirte]

Every other sport seems to have produced at least one GOAT-level player while no one has come remotely close to entering that zone in hockey since Mario retired. Crosby and Ovi are great and all but they're simply not on that level, and one can argue that neither of them are even top 10 players of all time; it's also wayyyyy too early to put McDavid near that category.

Additionally, no goalie since Brodeur has been a GOAT or high-end ATG goalie either. There's probably a greater depth of goalies rn but none of them are exactly standout generational goalies.

Is it just the nature of the game in terms of how much it's changed or have prior greats like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, etc. set the bar too high for anyone to reach?

Out of curiousity who is baseballs?

I assume you mean tom brady for football?

 

[Strakanator]

Mcdavid could have put up insane numbers if he ended up on a really good team the last 4 years. We are talking 150-160 points. His career is pretty much derailed by the pathetic Edmonton Oilers organization.

 

[DaveG]

Jack didn't face 1/10th the competition Tiger did, nor did he change the way golfers train and golf courses are designed the way Tiger did.

This is either a joke or pure ignorance.

If you haven't heard of names like Player, Palmer, Trevino, Watson, Irwin, Kite, or Floyd do some research.

 

[Maestro84]

Out of curiousity who is baseballs?

I assume you mean tom brady for football?

Mike Trout has a chance of being the GOAT and Kershaw has a chance to be the GOAT pitcher.

 

[joe dirte]

Mike Trout has a chance of being the GOAT and Kershaw has a chance to be the GOAT pitcher.

There have been many in hockeybthat "had a chance" though.

 

[SneakerPimp82]

umm...

Grand Slams

Roger Federer (SUI)	20
Rafael Nadal (ESP)	18
Novak Djokovic (SRB)	16
Pete Sampras (USA)	14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All time Wins

1	Jimmy Connors*	1970–1996	1274
2	Roger Federer^	1998–	1223
3	Ivan Lendl*	1978–1994	1068
4	Rafael Nadal^	2001–	960
5	Guillermo Vilas*	1968–1992	949
6	John McEnroe*	1976–1992	881
7	Novak Djokovic^	2003–	874
8	Andre Agassi*	1986–2006	870
9	Ilie Năstase*	1968–1985	854
10	Stefan Edberg*	1982–1996	801

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Federer is also 38, Nadal and Djokovic are 33 and 32 respectively. Federer isn't likely to hold that GOAT title for too long. At the very least he'll be sharing it, if not outright lose when Djokovic surpasses him. Nadal's playing style already makes him prone to injury, I think it'll hold him back as he gets older.

I'm surprised Pete Sampras isn't on the top-10 all time wins list. Thinking about it, I guess he didn't really have the all-around game to rack up wins on clay along with grass and hard courts.

 

[FissionFire]

Ovechkin could pass Gretzky in goals and he still wouldn’t be brought up as the greatest of all time. the OP is talking about overall players. Not just one aspect of a sport.

No one really cares in who has the most points in basketball or the most touchdowns in football. GOATS produce in every aspect and win multiple titles with their team. Ovechkin will never be talked about as a GOAT of hockey.

I disagree. Taking your points scores example, the top of that list is full of players considered GOATs overall or at their position. Abdul-Jabbar, Malone, Kobe, Wilt, Jordan, LeBron, Shaq. All those players are either arguably the best ever at their position or best ever overall. Only Dirk Nowitzki in the Top 8 career scoring leaders arguably isn’t and even he has a strong case for inclusion.

Football is also interesting. If you go by touchdowns scored, again you find a bunch of GOATs at their positions: Rice, Moss, TO, Carter, Harrison at WR; LT, Faulk, Jim Brown, Payton, Emmitt Smith, Marcus Allen at RB; Gates, Gonzalez at TE. All have very strong cases as the best ever at their position. For QBs you have Manning, Brady, Favre, Marino, Brees in the top 5 and I don’t think it’s debatable that any of those aren’t GOATs

Hockey is the one sport where it seems that arguably being the best ever scoring isn’t even worthy of mention as a GOAT, which is rather baffling. Ovechkin is already undoubtedly the best LW in NHL history. He is arguably the 2nd best winger period behind Howe. How is that not GOAT territory? People don’t trash Brady or Manning for only throwing touchdowns and not being able to rush the ball or catch a pass. People don’t count it against Jim Brown or Jerry Rice that they only played one role and never passed the ball. We don’t trash MJ or Kobe for not being elite rebounders. Why is it only hockey where unless a player in elite in every single aspect of the game they can’t be a GOAT? No other sport demands that ridiculous standard on their players. I feel like this GOAT standard makes it impossible for any player who isn’t a center or simply a total freak of nature like Howe/Orr to ever be considered the “best ever” at anything.

When it’s all said and done Ovechkin will go down at a top 10 player of all-time, maybe even 5th when you simply consider accomplishments and not ‘what ifs’. Being one of the 5-10 best players in your leagues 102 year history damn well seems like GOAT territory for me.

 

[FissionFire]

Federer is also 38, Nadal and Djokovic are 33 and 32 respectively. Federer isn't likely to hold that GOAT title for too long. At the very least he'll be sharing it, if not outright lose when Djokovic surpasses him. Nadal's playing style already makes him prone to injury, I think it'll hold him back as he gets older.

I'm surprised Pete Sampras isn't on the top-10 all time wins list. Thinking about it, I guess he didn't really have the all-around game to rack up wins on clay along with grass and hard courts.

Sampras also played his entire career head-to-head with Andre Agassi, himself another all-time great. Just like Mario vs. Wayne it’s hard to dominate when faced with one of the best ever year after year as well.

 

[HisIceness]

I don't know but the day the NHL media starts making GOAT topics the way NBA media has done with Jordan vs LeBron is the day I quit watching. The NBA shows on ESPN turn every other topic into a stupid Jordan vs LeBron debate and its beyond old. The NHL on NBC hopefully won't be following suit.

 

[Lebowski]

I think it may be due to the fact the NHL and hockey in general has never had the same kind of international appeal as those other sports.

It shouldn't come as a surprised that most of the all-time greats in hockey played at a time where the league was in large part made of Canadian players. I think it may have made it easier for truly exceptional talents to dominate the competition.

As the sport is growing and gaining popularity, especially in the US, there's a new influx of talent coming to the NHL, essentially leveling the playing field, making it even harder to become a "statistical anomaly" à la Gretzky or Lemieux. I don't think we'll ever see that kind dominance ever again.

 

[Mrb1p]

Crosby, Ovi, Price and McDavid enter the chat room

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Hockey has a problem protecting their marquee talents.

The game is geared towards refs managing games, keeping scores close, and evening up calls.


It's one of the only sports where interference on stars is allowed, and encouraged.

 

[pbgoalie]

Maybe not the past 10 years, but definitely in this century, we’ve seen LeBron, Brady, Manning, Tiger, Nadal, Serena, Trout, Messi, and Ronaldo all build strong cases for GOAT in their respective sports.

Tiger =Orr
Nicklaus= Gretzky

 

[SneakerPimp82]

Sampras also played his entire career head-to-head with Andre Agassi, himself another all-time great. Just like Mario vs. Wayne it’s hard to dominate when faced with one of the best ever year after year as well.

Agassi definitely had a big lull in the middle of his career though, before putting it back together later on, so Sampras wasn't facing prime Agassi through all those years. I think Sampras is definitely one of the all time greats, though not on the same level as Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic, who themselves have to contend with each other.

What a time to be alive, right? Nitpicking greatness like it's a cereal brand in the food aisle.

 

[PromisedLand]

Grretzky's records are ridiculous, I think he should be treated as outlier. Actually throw Mario into that mix as well.

P.S. McDavid is clearly reaching the GOAT territory if he finds the right team or somehow his team improves


Also, unlike other sports in Hockey it is not easy to "one-man-show" the game.

Basketball- can one man show
Tennis - is a one man show
Football - can one man show
Baseball - can one man show
soccer - can one man show

hockey it isn't easy to be a one man show; you try to dipsy-doodle and opposition would put your down on your ass with a hit

 

[PromisedLand]

umm...

Grand Slams

Roger Federer (SUI)	20
Rafael Nadal (ESP)	18
Novak Djokovic (SRB)	16
Pete Sampras (USA)	14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All time Wins

1	Jimmy Connors*	1970–1996	1274
2	Roger Federer^	1998–	1223
3	Ivan Lendl*	1978–1994	1068
4	Rafael Nadal^	2001–	960
5	Guillermo Vilas*	1968–1992	949
6	John McEnroe*	1976–1992	881
7	Novak Djokovic^	2003–	874
8	Andre Agassi*	1986–2006	870
9	Ilie Năstase*	1968–1985	854
10	Stefan Edberg*	1982–1996	801

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

you cannot look at raw points

whats the:

serve/60
forehand/60
backhand/60
volley/60
rally/60
deuce/60
winners/60
faults/60
????

 

[PromisedLand]

I just had this argument at work. Who is the real GOAT Tom Brady, or Wild Bill Belichick? To me Belichick and Popovich are the last great coaches. I don’t see anyone in hockey or baseball as their equals.

ummm....

Bowman?

 

[FerrisRox]

Maybe not the past 10 years, but definitely in this century, we’ve seen LeBron, Brady, Manning, Tiger, Nadal, Serena, Trout, Messi, and Ronaldo all build strong cases for GOAT in their respective sports.

You think Mike Trout makes a strong case to be the greatest baseball player of all time?

 

[Canes]

You think Mike Trout makes a strong case to be the greatest baseball player of all time?

He's well on his way, especially if you consider stuff like WAR.

If he played for the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers, or even another team that can make the playoffs more often, considering him one of the best ball players of all-time already would already be a thing.

 

[Kennedys]

No GOAT but around 25 generational players apparently

 

[JPeeper]

People are really saying if Ovy breaks Gretzky's goal record he still isn't in the top 5 GOAT tier?

Are y'all blind supporters of Don Cherry?

Ovy is already the GOAT goalscorer without breaking Gretzky's record. What he has done in this era is ridiculous, 50 goal+ seasons where goalies actually wear equipment and teams play defence. A prime Ovechkin would have just as big of an impact on game as any of the top 5-10 players in history if not more so.

 

[BurntToast]

You can’t be a GOAT an not have championships. As good as Lebron is, Kobe is closer to GOAT, and there is only one Jordan.

WAR and Corsi are infuriating. They take cookie cutter information to produce a biased stat. Mike Trout is a great baseball player too bad he will never win.

Furthermore, McDavid might be Goat to some of you but he is in the same Boat as Trout. Unless something drastically changes he will never win enough. If regular season stats carry that much value, Roy would lose some credibility.

Stats aside, Gretzky also benefits from the era. He was a major catalyst for the league’s growth. The NHL just had a mergered and he was a superstar. Plus, his influence is why Hockey in California is so successful.

 

[BurntToast]

ummm....

Bowman?

Is Retired.

 

[MadLuke]

Could be a bit random, but maybe not, it is not that surprising so many of the all time great were born between 1950 and 1966 in Canada:

Hockey did rely a lot on Canada and Soviet block talent, with natality going down, cost and complexity of hockey access going up, talent pool in Canada probably went down quite a bit, all the Soviet block talent got hit pretty bad in the late 80s early 90s has well (Russian, Czech, etc...), Gretzky and Messier were born in 1961 almost at the peak of that graph, Bourque in 1960 at the peak, Yzerman, Lemieux and Roy in 1965 just before the drop, Orr in 1948 in the immediate post WW2 boom, Howe just before the recession drop.

While the talent pool in sport like soccer probably only went up and up in comparison.

Offense and star player protection often went up in some other league, maybe it help create separation for them.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

This is OT, but you definitely misspelled Federer

If we're strictly talking the last 10 years then Federer doesn't belong in the conversation really.