Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

[Fixxer]

The time when scoring was real high is long gone. The gap between the best and worst players has reduced. 4th liners actually are NHL calibre guys, most of the time. Rules have changed and the parity makes it more difficult for player to rise above the rest. If you talk about guys like Orr, Howe, Lemieux, Gretzky, they don't come so often. Crosby and McDavid are the closest to that in years. As for GOAT, defensive players (defenders and goalies) are less sexy picks because scoring is what bring excitement (and we must admit, fighting as well). So, rules changes, parity and we have yet to see anotehr guy head and shoulder above the rest. Last ones, Gretzky, Lemieux, a peak of close or above 200 points. But as I said, rules changed...

 

[powerstuck]

I think of all players post-Pele, Messi has the best chance to usurp him as GOAT. Brazilian Ronaldo 100% had the talent too, but due to injuries he wasn't able to accomplish as much as he could have (still had an amazing career tho), Maradona is another one who's up there, but falls short IMO.

The problem is that once a GOAT is declared, the majority of people will not listen to you if you suggest someone else has taken over that mantle. Its like they are GOAT for life.

I agree with you. And that's all the issue too. If you are a talking about THE GREAT for each of the sports, then only one name can be there. It can be replaced but if we take Gretzky and Pelé, in my opinions those two are still the GOAT's for their individual sports.

Now, if you talk about the greatS of each sport, well the lists can go up to 100 names for each of the sports.

 

[Voight]

No player in NBA history has accomplished more individually or team wise in their career than Michael Jordan. He's won more with less help than any superstar in NBA history and he's done more for the game of basketball than any player in league history. He's indisputably the greatest player in NBA history and it has nothing to do with era. Athletically he was superior to any playing even now and his vertical is tied for the highest entering the NBA. If you took him out of the era he played in MJ would have a much prolonged athletic prime and his stats would balloon to coincide with the pace of the game.

I mean the guy won MVP, DPOY and the scoring title all in the same season..... never been done before or since.

Literally was the best offensive and defensive player at the same time, which is nearly impossible.

 

[qwerty]

In my opinion, it's the nature of the game. It's just a lot easier to defend star players in the NHL especially with sticks in your hand. Makes it easier to trap, double team, and shut down. In basketball, it's a similar set up defensively where you front your defender man on man. But when the opposing player blows past you, there's a clear path to the net whereas in hockey, there's a goaltender and a pile of sticks and bodies that you can't just jump over or maneuver past.

So hockey ends up being naturally a more defensive game which lets face it, does not sell to the average viewer. If the league can deter obstruction even more and kill the trap, perhaps we get back to the days where stars scored nearly 2 points per game and set themselves apart from the rest of the pack.

 

[New Jersey]

Additionally, no goalie since Brodeur has been a GOAT or high-end ATG goalie either.

op seems cool

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

There's claiming he's the GOAT and there's what I said, "One of the GOAT's" Massive difference, reading is good and I'm absolutely correct, Ovechkin is already considered one of the greatest players of all time as is Crosby.

Also not sure where you've been but people pluralize GOAT all the time now, no TV or in fandom.

You just simply don’t know what the acronym GOAT means. While reading is good, reading comprehension is much more important.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

No player in NBA history has accomplished more individually or team wise in their career than Michael Jordan. He's won more with less help than any superstar in NBA history and he's done more for the game of basketball than any player in league history. He's indisputably the greatest player in NBA history and it has nothing to do with era. Athletically he was superior to any playing even now and his vertical is tied for the highest entering the NBA. If you took him out of the era he played in MJ would have a much prolonged athletic prime and his stats would balloon to coincide with the pace of the game.

You can't be serious.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

You can't be serious.

MJ fanboys seem to forget what he was without Pippen.

-0 rings
-0 playoff series wins (LOL)
-0 MVP
-44% regular season record
-11% playoff record (LOL)

UNDISPUTED GOAT

 

[psycat]

They all do.

I would bet on it aswell but in my book there is difference between doping a little bit and going full blown ped's monster(which Nadal 100% is).

The spanish wonder generation(football, Nadal, Contador etc) is not the slighest believeable and when someone got connections to a guy like Fuentes it's simply very likely it's systematic. They are in the "Jamaican sprinters" or "DDR athletes" territory.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Because you can't out Gretzky Gretzky.

 

[TheNumber4]

1. Gretzky can't be reached.
2. NHL rules / coaching for the longest time have evolved to stifle offence, and stifle anyone's chances of hitting historic point totals. It was only a short while ago when the 100 points plateau was seen as great in today's league. Only recently has offence begun to uptick.
3. The Toronto bubble controls the narrative, and instead of anointing 2xArt Ross winners like McDavid as the next GOAT they have to play to their Toronto centric demographic and stuggle to try to annoint a player that can barely crack top 20 in league scoring as the next GOAT (Matthews).

 

[Red Piller]

The better overall players become, the harder it will be to distinguish oneself from the pack. Had Crosby or Ovechkin played 10-20 earlier I think people would judge them differently (assuming they kept their skills they've possessed in modern times).

Do you know how many all time greats played 20 years ago? A lot.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

- The biggest reason is chance. You can't have a GOAT level player all the time. In baseball for example there is some periods without one like the 80s where I think the best player is Mike Schmidt? Crosby ranks about as well all time as Magic and Bird, who operate a relatively small period between Jordan and Kareem's peaks, but anyways. By odds sometimes in sports you're going to have two GOAT level players at once (Gretzky/Lemieux, Brady/Manning, Federer/Djokovic/Nadal, Cobb/Ruth, etc.) and sometimes none. I don't think anyone in this generation, not counting McDavid who we haven't seen final product of has had GOAT level talent, period.
- I think NHL players are less likely to be on PEDs. It seems like they're honourable and Canadians are raised less power hungry than Americans
- Gretzky set the bar really high

 

[Vasilevskiy]

- The biggest reason is chance. You can't have a GOAT level player all the time. In baseball for example there is some periods without one like the 80s where I think the best player is Mike Schmidt? Crosby ranks about as well all time as Magic and Bird, who operate a relatively small period between Jordan and Kareem's peaks, but anyways. By odds sometimes in sports you're going to have two GOAT level players at once (Gretzky/Lemieux, Brady/Manning, Federer/Djokovic/Nadal, Cobb/Ruth, etc.) and sometimes none. I don't think anyone in this generation, not counting McDavid who we haven't seen final product of has had GOAT level talent, period.
- I think NHL players are less likely to be on PEDs. It seems like they're honourable and Canadians are raised less power hungry than Americans
- Gretzky set the bar really high

In all sports at an elite level PEDs are involved, I don't see any reason why hockey would be different. I don't think NHL cares about it ("allows it").

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I would bet on it aswell but in my book there is difference between doping a little bit and going full blown ped's monster(which Nadal 100% is).

The spanish wonder generation(football, Nadal, Contador etc) is not the slighest believeable and when someone got connections to a guy like Fuentes it's simply very likely it's systematic. They are in the "Jamaican sprinters" or "DDR athletes" territory.

I get your point but I disagree in the cases you mentioned. Nadal is a generational talent, doped or not, same for Federer and Djokovic.
Contador was the best climber of his generation (and a better overall cyclist than let's say Andy Schleck or Chris Froome (talk about a difficult story to believe)).
The Spanish football generation was once in a lifetime and I don't see anything more suspicious about it than Germany, for example, same for our basketball team.
My two cents.

 

[Los merengues]

I would bet on it aswell but in my book there is difference between doping a little bit and going full blown ped's monster(which Nadal 100% is).

The spanish wonder generation(football, Nadal, Contador etc) is not the slighest believeable and when someone got connections to a guy like Fuentes it's simply very likely it's systematic. They are in the "Jamaican sprinters" or "DDR athletes" territory.

Are you serious? You'll be hard pressed to find a team sport where you would benifit less from illegal substances. There is absolutely no support for your view.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

And no NBA player has been gifted the calls that jordan has. He was a hell of a player, no doubt, but there needs to be context here. The NBA was desperate at the time for a star. Somebody they could market. Enter Michael Jordan. The fix was in. The league was telling officials to allow him to get away with murder, which he did. Everyone remembers that famous shot of his? Where he breaks the ankles of the opposition? But he really didnt. He pushed off and, without a doubt, should have been called. He was athletic and a superstar, but he was also a part of the NBA marketing machine. Theres documentaries on this subject on YouTube. They can explain it better than I can.

Every superstar, particularly in the NBA is gifted calls. The modern NBA athlete is not even allowed to be touched while MJ endured playing through the most physically punishing era the league has ever seen. You can't fake being thrown to the ground repeatedly, clotheslined, tripped, stepped on, flagrant 2'd by today's standard multiple times a game. The modern NBA athlete has never dealt with anything of the like in their careers, it doesn't exist.

And please, if you honestly think that little nudge was a push off you must not have watched John Stockton play defense his entire career, no one is calling that and compared to today's rules where Lebron gets away with stiff arming opposing players on every drive, this was nothing. Everything you said is conjecture and honestly nonsense.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

You just simply don’t know what the acronym GOAT means. While reading is good, reading comprehension is much more important.

No, you don't and it's used pluraled constantly. Fans and analysts use "One of the GOAT's" CONSTANTLY. Please stop mincing words here as it's clear what I said. If you put "One of" ahead of "G.reatest O.f A.ll T.ime" that doesn't mean you are the singular GOAT, it means exactly what I explained it to be.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

You can't be serious.

I'm literally serious and it's backed up by facts. You simply cannot dispute anything I wrote because the stats and accomplishments don't lie, nor do the fact he played with 1 all star player his entire career and actually won 2 titles WITHOUT an all star on his team. He won titles where the second leading scorer had 15ppg, please stop talking.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

MJ fanboys seem to forget what he was without Pippen.

-0 rings
-0 playoff series wins (LOL)
-0 MVP
-44% regular season record
-11% playoff record (LOL)

UNDISPUTED GOAT

This is such garbage, surface level analysis as Pippen was not some blue chip draft pick coming out of college. He was a raw, skinny kid with little polish to his game. Prior to MJ getting him to work out with him at the Breakfast Club and improve his game he was faking migraines to get out of series against the Pistons and putting up atrocious averages. Ultimately Pippen was a very good player elevated to greatness by playing with Micheal Jordan, many greats concede this. He often disappeared in big moments and his defensive capabilities, while extraordinary, were overrated. Pippen almost never took on opposing teams toughest defensive assignment on the perimeter, that was MJ's job who also shouldered the offensive burden every single night. The myth that he did was what he guarded Magic for ONE HALF of an NBA Finals and MJ naysayers somehow run with this. The truth is MJ guarded Magic for over 80% of the series holding him to bad shooting percentages en route to their first title. My god MJ won the last title with Pippen barely able to run up the court.

MJ entered the league in an era of 2 of the greatest teams of all time in his conference and he started with coke heads for teammates. His numbers at both ends were astronomical, even against the vaunted Pistons before Pippen's advent. All it took was one all star calibre teammate for him to break through and after that he never looked back.

 

[Dustin]

Because Gretzky...

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

No, you don't and it's used pluraled constantly. Fans and analysts use "One of the GOAT's" CONSTANTLY. Please stop mincing words here as it's clear what I said. If you put "One of" ahead of "G.reatest O.f A.ll T.ime" that doesn't mean you are the singular GOAT, it means exactly what I explained it to be.

Lol the word is GOAT not OFTGOAT. You are just wrong. It’s okay to admit sometimes.

The GOAT means greatest of all time. The greatest of all time is Gretzky. You don’t get to add guys into that category just because you are a fan boy.

It’s okay to say someone if one of the best ever. But that’s not what GOAT means. And since the topic is speaking towards GOAT’s, Ovechkin simply isn’t nor will he ever be a GOAT.

 

[AKL]

Gretzky is so far ahead of anyone (apart from Lemieux, but due to longevity, wins by default), that it’s a lot harder to reach. Michael Jordan and Lebron James are a lot closer to their competition. Baseball can’t even decide on who its GOAT is and seems to have a new one every couple years. I don’t pay enough attention to the NFL to speak to that.

 

[wreckless]

GOAT's are either based on dominance relative to ones peers (Gretzky, etc), or undeniable accomplishments (Brady, etc).

Gretzky has both locked down, so he will be very difficult to surpass.

Current skill has nothing to do with it, if it did, there would be junior A players better than Gretzky.

 

[Coffey]

MJ fanboys seem to forget what he was without Pippen.

-0 rings
-0 playoff series wins (LOL)
-0 MVP
-44% regular season record
-11% playoff record (LOL)

UNDISPUTED GOAT

Now show me Gretzkys stats without Kevin Lowe.