Why is hockey the only sport not to produce a GOAT-calibre player in the last decade or so?

StoneHands

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Feb 26, 2013
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MJ fanboys seem to forget what he was without Pippen.

-0 rings
-0 playoff series wins (LOL)
-0 MVP
-44% regular season record
-11% playoff record (LOL)

UNDISPUTED GOAT
This is pretty disingenuous and I think you know it. He only played 5 seasons away from Pippen and one of them he only played a handful of games. So it was really just 4 seasons he actually played without Pippen. 2 seasons when he first came into a league onto a trash team that had a .329 win % the year before his rookie season and then 2 seasons following his 3 year retirement when he was an old man playing for another trash team that previously has a .232 win%.
 

Paperbagofglory

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Nov 15, 2010
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Someone probably already said it but the NHL seeks to create a more level playing field by giving you the illusion of parity through weak rules that allow for lower quality players to suppress talent easily. It was the equivalent of the 80's in the NFL when the ratings were terrible and it was all defense because you could pretty much get away with murder on the field.

The NHL does not allow its superstars to shine. They force them to play in the muck to convince the casuals that defense today is so amazing and everyone is equally talented. They started to get it right in 2009 but went back to their stupidity shortly after.
 

Addison Rae

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This is such garbage, surface level analysis as Pippen was not some blue chip draft pick coming out of college. He was a raw, skinny kid with little polish to his game. Prior to MJ getting him to work out with him at the Breakfast Club and improve his game he was faking migraines to get out of series against the Pistons and putting up atrocious averages. Ultimately Pippen was a very good player elevated to greatness by playing with Micheal Jordan, many greats concede this. He often disappeared in big moments and his defensive capabilities, while extraordinary, were overrated. Pippen almost never took on opposing teams toughest defensive assignment on the perimeter, that was MJ's job who also shouldered the offensive burden every single night. The myth that he did was what he guarded Magic for ONE HALF of an NBA Finals and MJ naysayers somehow run with this. The truth is MJ guarded Magic for over 80% of the series holding him to bad shooting percentages en route to their first title. My god MJ won the last title with Pippen barely able to run up the court.

MJ entered the league in an era of 2 of the greatest teams of all time in his conference and he started with coke heads for teammates. His numbers at both ends were astronomical, even against the vaunted Pistons before Pippen's advent. All it took was one all star calibre teammate for him to break through and after that he never looked back.
Faking migraines? Jesus christ Jordan fans are on another level.

I think Jordan is probably still the GOAT but if you think the gap is massive or LeBron isn’t at least clearly #2 then you don’t know basketball.
 

Rangediddy

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I haven't gone through the 23 pages of this thread, but I'm sure it's been said already... Hockey has the GOAT of all GOATs and you expect someone to be better than the GOAT of GOATs?
 

BK201

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Apr 11, 2011
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Faking migraines? Jesus christ Jordan fans are on another level.

I think Jordan is probably still the GOAT but if you think the gap is massive or LeBron isn’t at least clearly #2 then you don’t know basketball.

People don't know how good Rodman was. One of best players in NBA ever to this day. Pippen was also very good just not Jordan and Rodman level.
 

KingDeathMetal

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First, none of the 4 major NA sport besides baseball has produced a player in the last 10 years who could legitimately be in a GOAT conversation, and honestly, even in the case of Mike Trout, it's hard to make the case for him over Ruth. It's more of a "GOAT since Ruth" debate.

Even if you want to go back to the 00s where you have Lebron and Brady enter the scene, it's not fair to judge this on "GOAT" because hockey is the only sport maybe besides Baseball that has one guy who is so far ahead of his peers statistically that it's a safe bet to say that NOBODY will ever come close sans a rule change that blows open offensive stats.

Gretzky and to an extent Lemieux have such crazy point totals that to even argue that somebody is better would require serious adjustments for era, which is complicated.

If we look instead at generational talents, players who could legitimately wind up Top 10 of all time, hockey has produced 3 forwards (Crosby, Ovi, and McDavid) who are or will inevitably be in that convo, a goaltender who could be argued is Top 5 all time (Lundqvist), and possibly an all time Top 10 defenseman (Karlsson). And who knows how Hughes, Kakko, and Dahlin will shake out - all have "generational" potential. You could even make an argument for Patrick Kane finishing as a Top 10-15 player all-time (I wouldn't, but could see how one could).

The level of competition has gotten so good, especially in the top tier of players in the last 5 years alone, that it's getting more difficult to blow everyone else's numbers away.
 

Dynamite Time

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The NFL is the only sport that has had a GOAT (2000’s and so on) with Tom Brady.

The NBA some will say has with Bryant or James but I’d still take Michael Jordan.

MLB is a mess; PEDs along with hitters/pitchers throws that completely off the wall.

The NHL will never see another Gretzky; the game/players have changed so much since the 80’s/90’s that there’s a new way to look at a GOAT with the sport of hockey. Points aren’t the only statistic looked at in todays game.
 

Accelleratii

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I would argue Ovechkin is the GOAT. He's fast, he hits, he scores and he's durable. If he played in the early 80's I believe his goal scoring numbers would have far exceeded Gretzky's.
 
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discobob

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A few reasons:

1) Individual dominance is more difficult in Hockey

2) The change in playing style / reffing in Hockey is more Stark than many sports (preventing easy comparisons across eras)

3) Hockey is a "long career" sport. As such, it's hard to declare GOAThood until a player is 35+ (mlb is similar on this point)
 
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Mr Misunderstood

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The NFL is the only sport that has had a GOAT (2000’s and so on) with Tom Brady.

The NBA some will say has with Bryant or James but I’d still take Michael Jordan.

MLB is a mess; PEDs along with hitters/pitchers throws that completely off the wall.

The NHL will never see another Gretzky; the game/players have changed so much since the 80’s/90’s that there’s a new way to look at a GOAT with the sport of hockey. Points aren’t the only statistic looked at in todays game.

I get what you are saying about the MLB, but what Trout is doing and has done for the last 7 years is incredible. He hits for average & power and has been the league leader in OBP for the past 4 years, plus the stellar fielding. All on a crappy team, not being able to see him in the playoffs is a SHAME (for him and MLB).

Trout AL MVP voting:
2012- 2nd
2013- 2nd
2014- 1st
2015- 2nd
2016- 1st
2017- 4th (missed 50 games)
2018- 2nd

That's a joke lol. He's unbelievable.
 

Dynamite Time

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I get what you are saying about the MLB, but what Trout is doing and has done for the last 7 years is incredible. He hits for average & power and has been the league leader in OBP for the past 4 years, plus the stellar fielding. All on a crappy team, not being able to see him in the playoffs is a SHAME (for him and MLB).

Trout AL MVP voting:
2012- 2nd
2013- 2nd
2014- 1st
2015- 2nd
2016- 1st
2017- 4th (missed 50 games)
2018- 2nd

That's a joke lol. He's unbelievable.
MLB is the sport of the four USA/Canadian sports I keep an eye on the least. I remember the 90’s drama but it does seem they’ve cleaned it up.

MLB is different getting into the postseason as well. Three Division winners and a wild card team; two teams playing a game for the last spot.
 

Mr Misunderstood

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MLB is the sport of the four USA/Canadian sports I keep an eye on the least. I remember the 90’s drama but it does seem they’ve cleaned it up.

MLB is different getting into the postseason as well. Three Division winners and a wild card team; two teams playing a game for the last spot.

Yes, I understand how the playoff system works.

If Trout retired right now, with 8 full seasons at age 27, I'd argue that he makes it in the BHOF. That is a GOAT status.
 

Dynamite Time

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No problem. Not disagreeing with you, I just don’t really follow MLB.

Wow, didn’t know he was still that young; prime years for most NHLers.
 

Addison Rae

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The NFL is the only sport that has had a GOAT (2000’s and so on) with Tom Brady.

The NBA some will say has with Bryant or James but I’d still take Michael Jordan.

MLB is a mess; PEDs along with hitters/pitchers throws that completely off the wall.

The NHL will never see another Gretzky; the game/players have changed so much since the 80’s/90’s that there’s a new way to look at a GOAT with the sport of hockey. Points aren’t the only statistic looked at in todays game.
Kobe Bryant is nowhere close to LeBron or Jordan.

Kobe is the most overrated athlete I’ve ever seen.
 

Fantomas

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Aug 7, 2012
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Analytically, yes he actually does. Trout's average WAR over his first 8 full seasons is 9.0 using BR's WAR. Babe Ruth's average WAR after 8 full seasons as a position player was 9.3.

I think Trout compares better to Mickey Mantle than Ruth. If he keeps putting together 9 WAR seasons into his late-30s it will be another story.
 

SladeWilson23

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I think Trout compares better to Mickey Mantle than Ruth. If he keeps putting together 9 WAR seasons into his late-30s it will be another story.

Absolutely. He's been quite often compared to Mantle just by how similar the numbers are and their style of play. But I can't remember the last time a player got to a 70 WAR as quickly as Trout. Even Pujols didn't.
 

Maestro84

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May 3, 2018
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Are you for real? Federer is the goat of tennis. No other player alive is close
Look Federer has been my fav player for a long time now, but this is just incorrect. Djokovic and Nadal are currently the two best players in the world right now and have been for much of the last decade now. In terms of all-time, Federer is 38 and barely clinging onto a lot of his stats/records while Nadal and Djokovic are still in their early 30's and closing in on a lot of his records
 

Maestro84

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Kobe Bryant is nowhere close to LeBron or Jordan.

Kobe is the most overrated athlete I’ve ever seen.
Kobe being in the GOAT debate is a joke. The only reason he's even mentioned alongside MJ and Bron is cuz he played on the Lakers, won a few titles with them despite only being the teams best player on like 2 of them AT MAX, and his game "resembled" Jordan's right after Jordan retired. The media always compare him to Jordan and LeBron when in reality players guys like Duncan, Shaq and Olajuwon all had superior careers
 
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Fantomas

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Absolutely. He's been quite often compared to Mantle just by how similar the numbers are and their style of play. But I can't remember the last time a player got to a 70 WAR as quickly as Trout. Even Pujols didn't.

Pujols is fairly close. He just began his career a year later than Trout. By 28 years old he had about mid-60s war, with his first full season being at 21. Mantle, like Trout, had a career was in the 70s by the age of 28.

So Trout isn't doing anything unprecedented. But if he continues in this fashion for years to come, I'll be very intrigued.
 

Addison Rae

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Jun 2, 2009
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Kobe being in the GOAT debate is a joke. The only reason he's even mentioned alongside MJ and Bron is cuz he played on the Lakers, won a few titles with them despite only being the teams best player on like 2 of them AT MAX, and his game "resembled" Jordan's right after Jordan retired. The media always compare him to Jordan and LeBron when in reality players guys like Duncan, Shaq and Olajuwon all had superior careers
Completely accurate.
 
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