Which 5 teams will be the best over the next 5-7 years?

[1865]

Not in my opinion. Even if I was to concede that Couturier is better than Zibanejad, which I don't concede, the Rangers have 3-4 best forwards, the best defenseman, and the best goalie. If we rank that as a top 8 (2F, 1D, 1G), the Rangers have slot 1 at forward, and arguably slot 2 at forward, while also having slot 1 on defense and slot 1 in goal.

Sorry, which defenseman do you have that’s better than Provorov? Right now maybe Shest is better than Hart but there’s a crucial age gap there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sorry, which defenseman do you have that’s better than Provorov?

Fox.

 

[1865]

Fox.

This whole conversation is clearly pointless. You have no objectivity.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This whole conversation is clearly pointless. You have no objectivity.

The Athletic's awards tracker has a formula that calculates who should win awards, and has Fox tied for best rookie in the league this season, and a top 10 defenseman in the league.

I'm not saying that one projection formula means he's already a top 10 defenseman, although I don't think he's that far off, but Provorov isn't a top 10 defenseman himself, so its not a real reach to say Fox is better than Provorov.

Fox has been underrated by hockey fans all season because he's not as flashy as Makar or Hughes, but those who've watched him play consistently and even the heavy analytics people are saying he's been on that level, if not a higher level, this season.

 

[HugginThePost]

It's almost like we've been hearing this for the last 12 years...........

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The Athletic's awards tracker has a formula that calculates who should win awards, and has Fox tied for best rookie in the league this season, and a top 10 defenseman in the league.

I'm not saying that one projection formula means he's already a top 10 defenseman, although I don't think he's that far off, but Provorov isn't a top 10 defenseman himself, so its not a real reach to say Fox is better than Provorov.

Fox has been underrated by hockey fans all season because he's not as flashy as Makar or Hughes, but those who've watched him play consistently and even the heavy analytics people are saying he's been on that level, if not a higher level, this season.

A higher level than Hughes and Makar?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

The Athletic's awards tracker has a formula that calculates who should win awards, and has Fox tied for best rookie in the league this season, and a top 10 defenseman in the league.

I'm not saying that one projection formula means he's already a top 10 defenseman, although I don't think he's that far off, but Provorov isn't a top 10 defenseman himself, so its not a real reach to say Fox is better than Provorov.

Fox has been underrated by hockey fans all season because he's not as flashy as Makar or Hughes, but those who've watched him play consistently and even the heavy analytics people are saying he's been on that level, if not a higher level, this season.

Got a poll going for it:

Provorov or Adam Fox?

 

[viceroy]

All those crazy endorsement deals Coyotes players receive is almost unfair.

Just as an FYI hockey player endorsement deals are all pretty rubbish. Basically only in Canada are NHL'ers real celebrities. And the Canadian pop. is about 1/10th of the 'States.

In no order.....

Tampa
Colorado
Edmonton
Carolina
Toronto

So Toronto might be 1st? Never change Holymakinaw, never change.

Best 5 teams in five years (2024-25):

1. Carolina
2. Montreal
3. Philadelphia
4. New Jersey
5. Vancouver

Damn I wouldn't pick the Habs to be a top 10 team and I'm a huge Habs homer.

The Habs have recently been a pendular organization. In 2015 they finished with 110 points and were runner-up for the President's Trophy. Today, they struggle to be average. Five-seven years from now, they might be back in the running as a top team again.

Man you almost make me believe in my Habs. Almost.

Toronto
- Matthews, 22
- Marner, 22
- Nylander, 23
- Rielly, 26
Edmonton
- McDavid, 23
- Draisaitl, 24
- Nugent Hopkins, 26
- Klefbom, 26
Colorado
- MacKinnon, 26
...

The problem is going to be holding onto that talent, judging Cup windows and your essential personnel. The Salary Cup is a biatch ladies and gents.

Kk and poeling are not A prospects anymore. Fleury is decent. Not amazing not bad. Middle of the road guy not too end talent. Suzuki tbd same thing maybe second liner. No actual stars there, but good not great prospects (nothing wrong with that). It’s wishful thinking not to mention price and weber are a year older every year as well. Those are massive holes to fill.

BTW Jesperi is still only 19. Heck he'll be 19 even by the end of the standard 2020 season. I think Suzuki is more than just a 2nd liner, I think he can be fantastic. Anywho one has to judge what's best, a couple of superstars and a crappy supporting cast or an all around good team.

 

[BlueBaron]

There is just no way to know this or give an intelligent answer so I'm going to say the Leafs. We will draft a generational RHD and G with late round picks and win 7 cups in 7 years.

 

[Dache]

There is just no way to know this or give an intelligent answer so I'm going to say the Leafs. We will draft a generational RHD and G with late round picks and win 7 cups in 7 years.

At least you were correct and avoided an intelligent answer

 

[Holymakinaw]

There is just no way to know this or give an intelligent answer so I'm going to say the Leafs. We will draft a generational RHD and G with late round picks and win 7 cups in 7 years.

Seems plausible.

 

[Favin]

Best 5 teams in five years (2024-25):

1. Carolina
2. Montreal
3. Philadelphia
4. New Jersey
5. Vancouver
(dark horse: Anaheim and Ottawa)

How does Montreal become so good?

Damn I wouldn't pick the Habs to be a top 10 team and I'm a huge Habs homer.

Short answer: I am a big fan of MTL's prospect depth.
Longer answer: I didn't want to list the same old 'usual suspects' over best teams over next five years, so I created alternative list of best teams 'in five years'. By 2025, I am guessing they'll move guys like Petry, Drouin, Tatar and others for other assets. I also figured good drafting position over next two drafts. All combined to solid young core of Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Caufield, Poehling, Ylonen, and 2020 pick in top-6; some veterans in Danault, Domi, Lehkonen, Gallagher in bottom-6; A deep defensive group that adds Romanov, Fleury, Brook, Harris in coming years. This is long-shot call, I know, but if they add a true 1C in the next two drafts, they could be there. (Oh, and I am not a MTL homer).

 

[The90]

Just as an FYI hockey player endorsement deals are all pretty rubbish. Basically only in Canada are NHL'ers real celebrities. And the Canadian pop. is about 1/10th of the 'States.



So Toronto might be 1st? Never change Holymakinaw, never change.



Damn I wouldn't pick the Habs to be a top 10 team and I'm a huge Habs homer.



Man you almost make me believe in my Habs. Almost.



The problem is going to be holding onto that talent, judging Cup windows and your essential personnel. The Salary Cup is a biatch ladies and gents.



BTW Jesperi is still only 19. Heck he'll be 19 even by the end of the standard 2020 season. I think Suzuki is more than just a 2nd liner, I think he can be fantastic. Anywho one has to judge what's best, a couple of superstars and a crappy supporting cast or an all around good team.

Suzuki is decent. I said that he’s on pace for A 45-50 point season. Maybe. The ‘crappy supporting cast’ you speak of, has an entire third line of players on pace for 40 -45 points. They’ve been decimated by injuries. So 2 first lines jt marner nylander and matthews, and a third line that’s on pace for 40-45, looks like a good supporting cast to me.

they addressed the backup situation with Campbell, and the defence seemed to be coming around as well. My point is that the leafs Have the bonafide superstars as does every other team on this list. Montreal doesn’t have them (save for price and weber which I mentioned), but again they’re a year older every year. Their best prospect is 10-15 points off nylanders rookie season.

Every other team on that list has the superstars either in the league, or about to be. Montreal has some nice pieces, no stars. They’re the odd duck here. And if the leafs need to sell a star forward for some defense help, they’re trading them to a team that needs forwards for a star d. It’s not the problem people try and make it out to be. They’re content trying to win with what they have before that happens.

forgot to add, it will be extremely difficult for KK to come back and be an impact player in Montreal given the current situation. He’s a prime example of someone who needs a change of scenery and I’m not talking the AHL. But it would be great if he did figure it out.

 

[The90]

Short answer: I am a big fan of MTL's prospect depth.
Longer answer: I didn't want to list the same old 'usual suspects' over best teams over next five years, so I created alternative list of best teams 'in five years'. By 2025, I am guessing they'll move guys like Petry, Drouin, Tatar and others for other assets. I also figured good drafting position over next two drafts. All combined to solid young core of Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Caufield, Poehling, Ylonen, and 2020 pick in top-6; some veterans in Danault, Domi, Lehkonen, Gallagher in bottom-6; A deep defensive group that adds Romanov, Fleury, Brook, Harris in coming years. This is long-shot call, I know, but if they add a true 1C in the next two drafts, they could be there. (Oh, and I am not a MTL homer).

They literally need half of those players to turn into stars. Not just good nhl players. They are closer to a contender if they added a #1c to their current roster than if they are hoping on stars out of that group. Especially within 5 years.

 

[BlueBaron]

At least you were correct and avoided an intelligent answer

It's not a great accomplishment, I see from your posts you do it all the time.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The Athletic's awards tracker has a formula that calculates who should win awards, and has Fox tied for best rookie in the league this season, and a top 10 defenseman in the league.

I'm not saying that one projection formula means he's already a top 10 defenseman, although I don't think he's that far off, but Provorov isn't a top 10 defenseman himself, so its not a real reach to say Fox is better than Provorov.

Fox has been underrated by hockey fans all season because he's not as flashy as Makar or Hughes, but those who've watched him play consistently and even the heavy analytics people are saying he's been on that level, if not a higher level, this season.

Fox is VERY far off from a top 10D don’t be ridiculous. He plays less than 19minutes a game and is fourth on his OWN team in terms of defenseman ice time.

But you’re right I’m sure the Rangers are just morons and were playing Skjei more than a guy who’s “not far off” from a top 10D for unknown reasons.

 

[JD1]

I think it's as equally cute how fans of bad teams think they'll skyrocket into the future as if karma will sort it out.

Washington, Pittsburgh and Boston have been atop the Eastern Conference for a dozen years while Florida, Toronto, Carolina, Buffalo and Columbus have generally sucked.

So what's the constant in that statement?

It's not management. Washington, Pittsburgh and Boston have all moved out management during their runs of success.

The constant is having truly elite players in Crosby, Malkin, OV, Backstrom, Chara, Rask, Bergeron for the duration of the elite seasons.

Players of that calibre are not something the other teams you mentioned have. They haven't been successful because players of that calibre haven't been acquired. In Pittsburgh and Washington's case they were drafted. In Boston's case, they acquired a UFA in Chara that went on to have a freak career, a goalie gamble on a very young Rask and a 2nd rounder that became a HoF calibre player.

And you can add Chicago and LA to the mix, accept their HoF calibre players are clearly not what they once were.

 

[AB13]

Fox is VERY far off from a top 10D don’t be ridiculous. He plays less than 19minutes a game and is fourth on his OWN team in terms of defenseman ice time.

But you’re right I’m sure the Rangers are just morons and were playing Skjei more than a guy who’s “not far off” from a top 10D for unknown reasons.

Fox is definitely not a top 10 defenseman yet but he was the Rangers best defenceman this season. Ice time is completely irrelevant in every way, there is not even the slightest relevance to it. Ice time is simply just an incredibly stupid way to judge a player.

Based off ice time, Ben Chiarot, Alex Gologoski, Neal Pionk, Jeff Petry and Damon Severson are elite number 1 defensemen while Quinn Hughes, Rasmus Dahlin and Cale Makar have nothing on their clearly superior teammates in Alexander Edler, Rasmus Ristolainen, Samuel Girard and Erik Johnson respectively.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Fox is definitely not a top 10 defenseman yet but he was the Rangers best defenceman this season. Ice time is completely irrelevant in every way, there is not even the slightest relevance to it. Ice time is simply just an incredibly stupid way to judge a player.

Based off ice time, Ben Chiarot, Alex Gologoski, Neal Pionk, Jeff Petry and Damon Severson are elite number 1 defensemen while Quinn Hughes, Rasmus Dahlin and Cale Makar have nothing on their clearly superior teammates in Alexander Edler, Rasmus Ristolainen, Samuel Girard and Erik Johnson respectively.

I don’t disagree with this, but you might want to throw up an asterisk when two of the names lead their teammate by 2 seconds and 18 seconds in TOI.

 

[Blue Blooded]

A higher level than Hughes and Makar?

View attachment 338787

DeAngelo had a season that was at least equivalent to Makar's and many Ranger fans (though I am not among them myself) think Fox was better than DeAngelo.

And before people get bent out of shape; DeAngelo was significantly less sheltered than Makar, scored at equivalent point rates (1.86 ES P/60 vs 1.92, 5.56 PPP/60 vs 5.34), drove 5v5 possession and goal differential at better rates while playing with Marc Staal as his partner (who likely had the absolute worst impacts in the league away from DeAngelo).

I adore Makar as a player, I've always been partial to dynamic offensive defencemen like EK65, but believe me when I say DeAngelo has all of the same tools as Cale does.

While Fox possesses a high-tier offensive skillset, it's clear that he is a step below guys like Makar/DeAngelo on raw talent - but he compensates by playing an extremely smart game. So while he doesn't score points at the rate of DeAngelo he drives play and goals on an elite level by maximizing the skills he does have by making the best possible play 9/10 times.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Fox is definitely not a top 10 defenseman yet but he was the Rangers best defenceman this season. Ice time is completely irrelevant in every way, there is not even the slightest relevance to it. Ice time is simply just an incredibly stupid way to judge a player.

Based off ice time, Ben Chiarot, Alex Gologoski, Neal Pionk, Jeff Petry and Damon Severson are elite number 1 defensemen while Quinn Hughes, Rasmus Dahlin and Cale Makar have nothing on their clearly superior teammates in Alexander Edler, Rasmus Ristolainen, Samuel Girard and Erik Johnson respectively.

Many Avs/Buffalo fans actually do say Girard/Risto/Edler are CURRENTLY better than the rookies you just named.

Also no it is not a “stupid” way to quickly disprove that Fox is “almost” a top 10D. If you can show me any top 10D who are 4th in ice time or that play less than 19mins a game I’d love to see it.

 

[AB13]

Many Avs/Buffalo fans actually do say Girard/Risto/Edler are CURRENTLY better than the rookies you just named.

Also no it is not a “stupid” way to quickly disprove that Fox is “almost” a top 10D. If you can show me any top 10D who are 4th in ice time or that play less than 19mins a game I’d love to see it.

No, not a single fan of any of those teams think Girard/Ristolainen/Edler are even on the same level as those guys currently.

He is not a top 10 defenceman, but Ice time has no relevance to that. There are plenty of defencemen who play 18-20 minutes that are better than 22 minute players.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No, not a single fan of any of those teams think Girard/Ristolainen/Edler are even on the same level as those guys currently.

He is not a top 10 defenceman, but Ice time has no relevance to that. There are plenty of defencemen who play 18-20 minutes that are better than 22 minute players.

Well you’re certainly wrong about the first statement. There’s more than a few Vancouver fans who have issues with Hughes defensive game for example.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

DeAngelo had a season that was at least equivalent to Makar's and many Ranger fans (though I am not among them myself) think Fox was better than DeAngelo.

And before people get bent out of shape; DeAngelo was significantly less sheltered than Makar, scored at equivalent point rates (1.86 ES P/60 vs 1.92, 5.56 PPP/60 vs 5.34), drove 5v5 possession and goal differential at better rates while playing with Marc Staal as his partner (who likely had the absolute worst impacts in the league away from DeAngelo).

I adore Makar as a player, I've always been partial to dynamic offensive defencemen like EK65, but believe me when I say DeAngelo has all of the same tools as Cale does.

While Fox possesses a high-tier offensive skillset, it's clear that he is a step below guys like Makar/DeAngelo on raw talent - but he compensates by playing an extremely smart game. So while he doesn't score points at the rate of DeAngelo he drives play and goals on an elite level by maximizing the skills he does have by making the best possible play 9/10 times.

I mean... DeAngelo is 24 and is in his 4th season in the league. Makar is a rookie.

Despite that Makar still had better point per game totals.

DeAngelo might do some things better than Makar right now, but to say he has all the same tools is a bit of a reach, imo.

 

[1865]

The Athletic's awards tracker has a formula that calculates who should win awards, and has Fox tied for best rookie in the league this season, and a top 10 defenseman in the league.

I'm not saying that one projection formula means he's already a top 10 defenseman, although I don't think he's that far off, but Provorov isn't a top 10 defenseman himself, so its not a real reach to say Fox is better than Provorov.

Fox has been underrated by hockey fans all season because he's not as flashy as Makar or Hughes, but those who've watched him play consistently and even the heavy analytics people are saying he's been on that level, if not a higher level, this season.

You're in fantasy land if you legit think Fox is a better player than Provorov.