What to do with our Goalie Situation (poll)

[Fatass]

Its still insane.

We are talking about 3 games.

I’m hoping Benning relies on Ian Clark’s opinion about the goalies, when making this choice. Plus, we have a cap guy too. He’s got to be heard as well. There are numbers, term, and conditions that we simply cannot give in to with Marky. No more than 6 mil per; no more than 4 years; and no expansion draft protection. If any one of those is crossed it’s a bad deal, and we should go with Demko.

 

[Peter Griffin]

if someone with actual accurate knowledge could post how this ED works..that would be great. Like who NEEDS protection and how many spots do we have etc

The only players that are forced to be protected are the ones that carry NMC for the 21/22 season of which the Canucks have zero. There’s a whole expansion draft calculator on capfriendly.com.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I’m hoping Benning relies on Ian Clark’s opinion about the goalies, when making this choice. Plus, we have a cap guy too. He’s got to be heard as well. There are numbers, term, and conditions that we simply cannot give in to with Marky. No more than 6 mil per; no more than 4 years; and no expansion draft protection. If any one of those is crossed it’s a bad deal, and we should go with Demko.

Unless Demko is deemed unfit to carry the load?
We are in win now mode. We cant wait for DiPietro or to find a new goalie if neither Demko nor DiPietro endup being the guy for us.

 

[iFan]

It must be frustrating for teams like Calgary and Edmonton to see a division rival like the Canucks have goalies like Luongo, Schneider, Markstrom and now Demko when they can’t get goaltending.

 

[iFan]

I thought Ian Clark left the Canucks a few years ago?

 

[Fatass]

Unless Demko is deemed unfit to carry the load?
We are in win now mode. We cant wait for DiPietro or to find a new goalie if neither Demko nor DiPietro endup being the guy for us.

Win now mode is what got us burdened with all these overpaid older crappy guys on longer termed contracts, who have us in the current cap hell we are in now though. Marky is great, but Benning can’t sign any more older players to bad contracts. Ideally we sign Marky to a fair deal, and go with both goalies on a 60% 40% split next season, which is supposed to be a condensed schedule, and likely full of back to backs.

 

[StreetHawk]

Unless Demko is deemed unfit to carry the load?
We are in win now mode. We cant wait for DiPietro or to find a new goalie if neither Demko nor DiPietro endup being the guy for us.

Ok. So for all of those in the sign Markstrom camp, start putting together you 21-22 roster and cap hits.
Put down numbers for Petey and Hughes (defend them if needed), then put down the others who have contracts running through that season. Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Myers, Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, & Luongo etc. And give the number for Markstrom. These 7 guys & Lu With contracts will count Around $37.7 mill.
Add in Petey, Hughes, Markstrom is going to be over $20 million. So that will be $58 mill for 10 players. Leaving $23 mill or less for the remaining 13 skaters.

How many of the remaining 13 will make $1 mill?
Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lockwood, Lind, Rathbone? Juolevi would be bridged in the low $1 mill range. So that’s $6 mill for 6 more guys. $64 mill on 16 skaters. 7 left for $17 mill.

Gaudette, Motte, Virtanen, MacEwen, and 3 Dmen needed.

Doing this exercise really opens up the eyes about how little cap space they actually have cause they still have $15 mill tied up in Lu, Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel for that season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ok. So for all of those in the sign Markstrom camp, start putting together you 21-22 roster and cap hits.
Put down numbers for Petey and Hughes (defend them if needed), then put down the others who have contracts running through that season. Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Myers, Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, & Luongo etc. And give the number for Markstrom. These 7 guys & Lu With contracts will count Around $37.7 mill.
Add in Petey, Hughes, Markstrom is going to be over $20 million. So that will be $58 mill for 10 players. Leaving $23 mill or less for the remaining 13 skaters.

How many of the remaining 13 will make $1 mill?
Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lockwood, Lind, Rathbone? Juolevi would be bridged in the low $1 mill range. So that’s $6 mill for 6 more guys. $64 mill on 16 skaters. 7 left for $17 mill.

Gaudette, Motte, Virtanen, MacEwen, and 3 Dmen needed.

Doing this exercise really opens up the eyes about how little cap space they actually have cause they still have $15 mill tied up in Lu, Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel for that season.

Win now mode is what got us burdened with all these overpaid older crappy guys on longer termed contracts, who have us in the current cap hell we are in now though. Marky is great, but Benning can’t sign any more older players to bad contracts. Ideally we sign Marky to a fair deal, and go with both goalies on a 60% 40% split next season, which is supposed to be a condensed schedule, and likely full of back to backs.

Im well aware of the situation. And I hate that we've been put in this predicament.

I wanted for us to give a more even split between Demko and Marky. We did not do that. Now we don't know what we have in Demko and Marky got worn down.

We have not been playing the long game. I do not see how we could switch strategies now that we've entered our contention window. We cant do both strategies at once.

As a wise man once said... It is what it is.

 

[StreetHawk]

Im well aware of the situation. And I hate that we've been put in this predicament.

I wanted for us to give a more even split between Demko and Marky. We did not do that. Now we don't know what we have in Demko and Marky got worn down.

We have not been playing the long game. I do not see how we could switch strategies now that we've entered our contention window. We cant do both strategies at once.

As a wise man once said... It is what it is.

And I forgot Ferland at $3.5 mill.

This team borrowed from peter to Pay Paul. In 2016, I said that they just borrowed from Bo and Brock when they signed Eriksson for 6 seasons to pay with the twins for their final 2 years. You have Eriksson around for more time without the twins than with them.

now they are paying for that loan they took out in 2016 to make it better for the twins.

Time to pay Peter.

 

[Hodgy]

I'm challenging the "you'd have to be crazy to go with Demko in March" point because there are still people on this board that think cap and contracts first, and win-now moves second. Markstrom is a win-now move, and he's older, and he has full control. That predisposes Benning to a bad contract.

Sure, contacts are obviously very important, as is age, but in March Demko was a struggling 24 year old goalie with a 905 svp, and it was really looking like the wheels of the Canucks, including Demko, were coming off. While injured, Markstrom was the uncontested MVP. Three games of great hockey since then really shouldn’t sway anyone’s decision on this. The sample size is laughably too small.

With that said, the real issue Is Benning’s total mismanaging of the cap, because if he didn’t commit tons of cap space to junk, then I can conceive of a situation where the Canucks re-sign Markstrom but don’t give him entry draft protection which would both given them stable goaltending in the near future but also allow them to ultimately go with Demko if he proves to be a franchise goalie.

Simply going with Demko at this point would be a massive risk as Demko could very easily end up not being an NHL starting goalie. While a long term contract to Markstrom could be disastrous, one could reasonably expect Markstrom to be a decent goalie for the next 2-3 years (and over that time, it’s perhaps more likely that Markstrom out performs Demko).

Again, as I stated earlier, I can’t really see how Benning doesn’t leverage Demko to get him out of a cap crunch, whether taking a massive gamble and going with Demko as the starter, or using Demko to unload a bad contract.

 

[Hodgy]

But you are not really getting better.

TB was in the same predicament 3 years ago and they opted for Vasilevsky. Look at them now? Would you rather now have 26 year old vasilevsky or 33 going on 34 in November Bishop?

The Tampa Bay example isn’t great. Vasilevsky was actually out performing Bishop during the year in which they traded Bishop, making it a much easier decision. In contrast, Markstrom has a 918svp to Demko’s 905svp this year. If Demko was our performing Markstrom I think Markstrom would have already been dealt like Bishop was.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

I'm a big Markstrom fan but we just can't afford him. Thank Benning for that one.

Luckily we have Demko which will help offset what would otherwise be a monumental loss.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm a big Markstrom fan but we just can't afford him. Thank Benning for that one.

Luckily we have Demko which will help offset what would otherwise be a monumental loss.

Whether you can afford him or not at this point is irrelevant since the ED is upcoming and we can’t protect two goalies. One has to be moved.

mist too bad Markstrom wasn’t on a 4 year $4.25 mill per year deal. But it is what it is.

 

[ChilliBilly]

The other thing that is not being taken into account is the escrow. Players signing longer deals should have this next season as a small amount.

What do the players get, 50 % of revenue? And gate receipts (including season tickets) make up about 40 % of revenues. So the escrow clawback is going to be in that range, if not a little more. So a $6 M contract this year is probably only going to pay around $3.6 M . Not going to feel sorry for these guys.

We are in cap hell. We really can't afford to keep both goalies, and I think our real window is in 2 - 3 years. We will have Podkolzin (I assume) and Tryamkin (hopefully), and Juolevi and Rathbone and probably Hoglander. Almost for sure Tanev gone, Markstrom gone, Luongo off the books, Baertschi gone. (anyone know if they can pay his salary to a European club and not have it count against the cap. Because there won't be and AHL this year I don't think.).

Sorry, most of this team will be gone by 22 - 23. Hopefully Boeser and Horvat are re-signed, and we have long term deals with Hughes and Pettersson. Demko is the goalie. And we stop buying UFA garbage like drunken sailors on leave.

We have the core for a very good team. Vancouver is a great place to live. Tell players they have a shot at a stanley cup, but they must take a discount. Money is never going to be the same as it was up til covid 19.

 

[VanJack]

It must be frustrating for teams like Calgary and Edmonton to see a division rival like the Canucks have goalies like Luongo, Schneider, Markstrom and now Demko when they can’t get goaltending.

Exactly. A number of teams exited these playoffs for the simple reason that they didn't have quality goaltending.

You think the Av's were happy about having to use Michael Hutchinson in game seven of their series with Dallas? He has bounced around from the Jets to the Panthers, and then was drummed out of TO before landing with the Av's at the trade deadline. When Grubauer went down, they were forced to use him. Would they still be playing with Markstrom or Demko between the pipes? Ya think?

You go down the list of teams that exited these playoffs earlier than expected, and goaltending was one of the first things that everyone cited. You could argue that Edmonton, Florida, Carolina and even Calgary didn't get the goaltending they needed. Good teams that went home early.

Interesting that on Sportsnet, Brian Burke predicting that increasingly NHL teams are being forced into a platoon system. It'll be a 70-30 or 65-35 split between the starter and the backup. The demands of the schedule are too tough. That's why the Habs went after Jake Allen, and are now paying $15m a season for their goaltending.

You could argue therefore that the Canucks need BOTH goalies. Would you want to roll the dice on Markstrom for 65-70 games with his injury history.....with only Louie Domingue as his backup?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Demko's play a win/win for Canucks management..good problem to have..Demko's play gives Benning several options he didnt have a week ago.

 

[JoeMc]

I didn't vote because there is no option to resign Marky and keep Demko.

 

[Tonystretcher]

I don’t believe this team is as close as the recent playoff run might have us thinking. If we re-sign Marky he will already be beginning to decline as this team is hitting it’s peak. The safe play is to re-sign Demko and continue building the blueline/depth. Which would also give us more cap flexibility while we still have some ugly contracts on the books.

 

[ahmon]

Its basically the Price/Halak situation.

When you have a younger goalie in Demko who is showing so much promise, to me anyways it seems better management to keep him and let Marky go - especially with the Expansion draft coming up.

 

[Hit the post]

Its basically the Price/Halak situation.

When you have a younger goalie in Demko who is showing so much promise, to me anyways it seems better management to keep him and let Marky go - especially with the Expansion draft coming up.

Interestingly enough, I seem to recall the Habs coach (Melanson) was in favor of keeping Halak over Price. Unless my memory is off. Nobody is infallible (as Melanson has done FANTASTIC work for us over the years).

 

[Vman]

As suggested by someone else in the management thread, the best way to handle this would be to sign Markstrom to a reasonable deal and trade Demko for assets, much like when Gillis flipped Schnieder for the Horvat pick since Schnieder's value at the time was at an all-time high.

Note: Schneider and Demko are different. They are on similar career paths but Schneider did not handle the high pressure playoff situations the same way Demko has. I'm much more confident in Demko and the way he handles playing in tough pressure situations. It will be hard to trade Demko, when we know he's going to be a star.

 

[lawrence]

I'm a big Markstrom fan but we just can't afford him. Thank Benning for that one.

we actually could afford him. It's just that will leave us with only room to sign one of Tanev or Toffoli. (this was of course pre covid and the cap going up next year) which then means we will have to expose one of demko or markstrom,

Its basically the Price/Halak situation.

oh wow I remember back in 2010 Halak saves the Habs playoff run, the difference is Halak was just 2 years younger then Price meanwhile demko is 6 years younger then Marky.

 

[rypper]

I didn't vote because there is no option to resign Marky and keep Demko.

To do that involves spending assets in the expansion draft to convince Seattle not to select Demko. Vegas cleaned up because of GM's trying to do this.

If you are able to do this though, Demko is a RFA (21/22 season) and will garner a raise on his current salary. If he doesn't ask for a trade in the meantime. Re-signing Markstrom to term, probably means the end of Demko in Vancouver. He's not going to want to continue to back up until he's in his late 20's.

 

[Teflon Jim]

I still think we need to try and re-sign Markstrom. Demko played excellent and he has a bright future ahead of him, but the level of play we just saw is not sustainable. Where he settles for his career average remains to be seen, and going from less than 30 career games to being handed the starter’s reigns seems a bit premature.

I’d try and keep the plan for Markstrom somewhat status quo - 3-4 year deal with a cap of around $6m, with the ability to be exposed in the Seattle Draft if we so choose.

Then we have some time (and Demko is cost controlled for another season before being an RFA) to see how this shakes out.

My idea is predicated on Markstrom taking a deal like that, of course. There’s a lot of teams looking for goalies, and a lot that could make rich offers.

I agree cuz if demko faulters after 30 games next year as the starter then what?
I'd also like to get an asset out of this goalie controversy once again and by letting a valuable asset walk we ain't getting better.

 

[Teflon Jim]

At his age and the upcoming expansion i say let him walk. I think the money is better spent elsewhere. I would rather gamble that demko is ready to take over the net next year

And if demko craps the bed again like he did this year when he had to take over for the injured Markstrom.
As I recall we were heading down the standing with a shaky demko in net.
I favor a two goalie top tandem next year with a trade before the expansion draft to have demko at his best perhaps.
Of course it depends on markstrom cooperating cuz if he wants the best offer then I dont think we can compete with other teams on the open market.