What to do with our Goalie Situation (poll)

[StreetHawk]

If we can get a top RHD prospect or top 12 pick, trade Demko. If not keep him. Also LOL to people saying sign Markstrom and trade him at the deadline. Not happening.

I don't see a team willing to do that. Too many options for goaltending this off-season to sacrifice a young RHD, which are very difficult to find.

UFA - Lehner, Holtby, Crawford
Vets for Trade - Lundqvist (maybe), Andersen, Murray
Youngster for Trade - Georgiev, Korpisalo

Just too many options for the Canucks to get a great return on Demko.

 

[timw33]

Soft goalie trade market, terrible current cap structure that needs flexibility long term for 2 star contracts, expiring contract goalie is probably top FA goalie going to market.

The choice is clear when you simply can't afford the other option *and* improve the rest of the roster.

Equation is completely different if we didn't have a few of Benn/Myers/Ferland/Roussel/Baertschi/Sutter/Eriksson/Beagle on the books.

 

[I am toxic]

Ya. Burke isn't the best guy to ask for advice on what you should do with your team's goaltending.

Are you trying to make me "like" your posts?

Stop. Just stop.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

You have to keep Markstrom imo. That said management need to have a walkaway number in mind, and if he won't agree to around that number....sadly, you let him go.

It's nice to see someone use the meme I made as a profile picture. I have never made a meme that has caught on before.

Edit: Can the Iron Goalie be his new nickname too? It sounded good when I posted it with the picture in the last GDT.

 

[StreetHawk]

Soft goalie trade market, terrible current cap structure that needs flexibility long term for 2 star contracts, expiring contract goalie is probably top FA goalie going to market.

The choice is clear when you simply can't afford the other option *and* improve the rest of the roster.

Equation is completely different if we didn't have a few of Benn/Myers/Ferland/Roussel/Baertschi/Sutter/Eriksson/Beagle on the books.

So, even if the Canucks did have cap room, the softer goalie market isn't going to get the Canucks the return they want for Demko. And you have the Seattle ED, plus Demko would be RFA in 2021, thus eligible for an offer sheet which the Canuck's could not match if they have Markstrom at $5.5 for example.

Just no way that they keep both guys. So, whether it is 2020 or 2021, one of them is gone.

At some point this organization needs to deal in the reality of the present situation. Not what they have done over the years and keep throwing money and term to fix the current situation. Now the time has come to pay that back. Ultimately, they could move assets to fix the now, but that is ultimately going to mean borrowing from late 20's Petey/Hughes rather than from early 20's Petey/Hughes because there isn't going to be the second wave of players coming up behind him if they keep bleeding assets.

 

[I am toxic]

So, even if the Canucks did have cap room, the softer goalie market isn't going to get the Canucks the return they want for Demko. And you have the Seattle ED, plus Demko would be RFA in 2021, thus eligible for an offer sheet which the Canuck's could not match if they have Markstrom at $5.5 for example.

Just no way that they keep both guys. So, whether it is 2020 or 2021, one of them is gone.

At some point this organization needs to deal in the reality of the present situation. Not what they have done over the years and keep throwing money and term to fix the current situation. Now the time has come to pay that back. Ultimately, they could move assets to fix the now, but that is ultimately going to mean borrowing from late 20's Petey/Hughes rather than from early 20's Petey/Hughes because there isn't going to be the second wave of players coming up behind him if they keep bleeding assets.

Peter . . . allow me to introduce you to Paul

 

[CanuckleBerry]

Pretty surprised at the poll results. Not saying I disagree necessarily, I guess the poll is due to a mix of recency bias and the horrid cap situation.

This could go either way, and in the right context there are good reasons to run with either goalie. Depends on a few things. What is Demko's trade value? And what is Markstrom willing to sign for? Jacob has definitely earned the chance to chase the dollars, so if he wants to cash in somewhere else, that's fine, we have a cheaper, younger alternative that is promising. If Marky is willing to sign an AAV of 5.5m or less, then this gets interesting and the Canucks could benefit from Demko's trade value.

Management absolutely has to draw a line on numbers with Markstrom. I know they wish they could give him the moon, but that would be incredibly short sighted. My vote in the poll went to Demko simply because of how little faith I have in navigating the Cap if we sign an expensive goalie. I would rather build a good D-core and defensive system around Demko than gamble on porous immobile defence and an overworked studly netminder.

 

[StreetHawk]

Peter . . . allow me to introduce you to Paul

That's why it never made sense to do anything term or cap wise with the twins on their final contracts. Eriksson for 4 years after the twins were gone made no sense. 2 years for the twins, cost them 4 years of him without? Like, who thinks like that?

Like, literally the structure of his deal was set to be traded this off-season after his SB was paid. So, if Aquaman is prepared to pay him $31 mill why not structure the contract over 4 years like that? What would the extra $1.75 mill in cap space have cost them over the past 4 seasons?

Worst case, the Cap is lower by around $2.5-$3 mill this off-season. I never expected it to be $88 mill on the high end. Too much escrow for the players. $84 mill was more realistic. So, they will be down around $5-6 mill when it comes down to Petey/Hughes extension years for the Cap. That typically means no luxury guys in the bottom part of the roster.

 

[Knight53]

Gotta go with Demko. Six years of developing him and when asked upon the greatest stage playing 3 straight elimination games he showed his superstar potential. Him being 24 and fitting in better age wise with the young core should make the choice easier. Money then can be used on resigning Stecher and Tanev.

 

[StreetHawk]

Gotta go with Demko. Six years of developing him and when asked upon the greatest stage playing 3 straight elimination games he showed his superstar potential. Him being 24 and fitting in better age wise with the young core should make the choice easier. Money then can be used on resigning Stecher and Tanev.

Even signing 1/3 of the top UFA guys isn't a slam dunk. Not given the $3 mill likely due for Jake.

Between Leivo, Fantenberg, Markstrom, Tanev, Schaller/TT, as UFA and Virtanen, Gaudette, Motte, Stecher as RFA, money leaving has to equal money coming back onto the roster.

Jake - $1.25 mill to $3 mill is $1.75 mill more
Gaudette - $900K to say Troy Terry's $1.45 mill is $550K more
Motte - $950K to say $1.1 mill (injury plagued season) is another $150-$200K more
Stecher - $2.235 to say $2.5 mill is $250K give or take
Leivo - gone, so replacement at $900K is $600K savings
Fantenberg - in/out at the same cap hit. no savings
Markstrom at $3.67 mill. Guessing $5.5 minimum, so around another $2 mill - $2.3 mill more
Tanev - $4.45 mill - likely $5 mill give or take to get him. At least $500K to $750K more.
Toffoli - fit him in due to late season addition. Made $2.7 more than Schaller's $1.9 mill So much more extra cap space to free up to afford him even at his current cap hit.

And that's keeping the roster as is basically. Plus have to be ready to free up as much cap in 2021 to sign Peter/Hughes

 

[The Iron Goalie]

It's nice to see someone use the meme I made as a profile picture. I have never made a meme that has caught on before.

Edit: Can the Iron Goalie be his new nickname too? It sounded good when I posted it with the picture in the last GDT.

I've wanted this nickname to catch on for Thatcher for over a year now, so fingers crossed! And thank you for the profile pic

 

[orcatown]

Really a question of asset management and this has not been a strong area for Benning

See several options with each having its positives and negatives

1. Keep both for the season and then try and trade Demko before the ED

Comment: Allows you a better chance of making the playoffs next season. Probably committing to Markstrom as he will likely demand a NMC. (benefit here is that you probably get Markstrom at a lower draft hit). Demko gets chance to really establish himself upping his value (although this could go both ways) However, Canucks trading Demko when the goalie market is likely glutted as teams try to shed goalies as they prepare for the ED meaning you may get less for him.

2. Go with Markstrom and trade Demko now.

Comment: Team shows some loyalty to Markstrom which may help in re-signing key players down the road or getting free agents. Can, again, give Markstrom his NMC and maybe reduce cap hit. Canucks get a chance to get a potential core player for Demko and can fill some immediate hole. (like Demko for Fabbro, or for Dube/Mangiapane + high draft (hate to see him in Calgary however), or Demko and Tanev signed for Seider (unlikely from Detroit's end but not out of the question given the importance of goaltending), and let me dream a bit here, Demko and our 1st next year for Jack Hughes. While this may be a little over the top, Canucks, should get a good return for Demko. Also, if the return is a potential top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman, then player like Toffoli or Tanev don't have to be signed freeing cap space. One problem here, however, is that Canucks will need to pay for this player fairly soon.

3. Go with Demko and let Markstrom walk.

Comment: Canucks keep a younger core together. Don't have to pay Markstrom leaving cap room for others and don't take a chance that Markstrom becomes more injury prone. However Canucks lose some of the loyalty points and don't get any return for Markstrom. Also, still have to sign a vet back up although one of the least told stories last year was just how well DiPietro played in Utica. (but don't think he is ready)

Given these options I would go with 2. You are only going to get certain chances to get key players at the right age and right now Demko gives you that chance. Markstrom was truly outstanding this year and has steadily improved. He is popular and team cohesiveness is crucial for the team. I would at least assess the market for Demko and, if it anything like what I suggested above were possible) then I think that's way to go.

 

[lawrence]

2. Go with Markstrom and trade Demko now.

in your own opinion what would it take to trade Demko?

 

[orcatown]

Demko is seemingly fulfilling the promise he came into the draft with. top US goalie and arguably the best prospect in his class. Many saw him as first round material. Low maintenance player on the cusp of being an NHL starter. To any team needing a potential starting goalie he has real value. You need real value in return. One thing I would consider is trading for a first rounder in the absolutely loaded 2022 draft and trying to pick a team you see as being in a lottery position. That draft is, as this article points out, just wicked.


The 2022 NHL draft is going to be wicked

 

[I in the Eye]

Cap space makes this an easy decision, imo... Keep Demko, trade Markstrom's rights for a draft pick.

 

[F A N]

Well..whats your opinion?

My opinion is that Burke is terrible when it comes to making decisions on goaltending. He had this rule against drafting goalies in the first round (and was shocked that Nonis drafted Schneider). He once turned down a trade for Kiprusoff (the summer before he went to Calgary) because he thought a 2nd was too high of a price to pay. He also turned down a trade for Vokoun before he blossomed into a #1. Meanwhile, he was happy to trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Auld, Aucoin and a 2nd for Cloutier and has made other goalie acquisitions that did not pan out.

I'm a firm believer in having good goaltending. For me, I do believe that Demko, while likely suffering some growing pains along the way, is capable of being a top 15 #1 goalie in this league. Basically it comes down to Demko being younger and can be extended long term on a cheaper contract. As I mentioned in the past, if our core group is ever going to lead us to the Stanley Cup, the best thing to do is to attempt multiple runs with them. If we end up taking a step back for 1-2 years Demko will still be under 28. With Markstrom we would really be wasting the last of his prime years if we do take a step back. Given the likely impossibility of keeping both, unfortunately a tough decision needs to be made.

 

[Peen]

in your own opinion what would it take to trade Demko?

Cap space. If we can get out of of any of the guys with major term, and maybe bring back another asset, it's a win for us. Eriksson, Myers, or Beagle + Roussel. That's $6m and term that can go towards Markstrom.

Cap space makes this an easy decision, imo... Keep Demko, trade Markstrom's rights for a draft pick.

As I alluded to above, you can get cap space from moving Demko. Trade Demko along with $6m of cap and you have money to sign Markstrom.

If you're able to use Demko to move out cap, it comes down to a decision of going with the potential goalie or the proven top ten goalie provided he signs for four or less years.

Shouldn't be much more than that to it. Also, I'd heavily weigh my opinion on whatever the goalie coach thinks if I were management.

 

[604]

Was 100% on the re-sign Marky train but his recent injury, combined with his injury a few months ago, really make me uncertain on giving a big contract to him as an aging goalie.

I'd probably offer him 3 x $4.5m without a NMC.

Allows us to kick the can down the road (and have the option to expose him to Seattle if Demko continues playing well).

He could get more in the market, and if chooses to do so, unfortunately, we probably have to let him go.

 

[F A N]

Are you trying to make me "like" your posts?

Stop. Just stop.

It appears that I can't be stopped. On a toxic likable streak!

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

If we had even a somewhat reasonable cap situation I would keep Markstrom.

Demko has looked amazing the past three games but you can't judge him solely on that.

Markstrom has a much larger body of work and has proven himself.

However we can keep Demko for much cheaper, and he's also younger to-boot.

As suggested by someone else in the management thread, the best way to handle this would be to sign Markstrom to a reasonable deal and trade Demko for assets, much like when Gillis flipped Schnieder for the Horvat pick since Schnieder's value at the time was at an all-time high.

The key point here would be to trade Demko for assets, not to bundle him with a bloated contract just to get rid of it. Benning has already bled away enough assets, Demko cannot be another one of them.

However, because of how badly Benning has mismanaged our cap, we badly need the relief that choosing Demko over Markstrom will provide.

When you consider all three were elimination games
yes you absolutely can

 

[VanCanFanEDM]

This team has to stop overpaying UFA's - sadly it has to start with Markstrom. If dim Jim hadn't over-paid all these other scrubs we could keep Marky... Sad state.

 

[krutovsdonut]

this is a no brainer. sign marky for market. wait and see. a season is a long time in goaltending. if marky has a bad year we protect demko. if he is good but gets eclipsed we protect demko and try and trade marky. if he has a solid season we trade demko or bribe seattle.

 

[F A N]

this is a no brainer. sign marky for market. wait and see. a season is a long time in goaltending. if marky has a bad year we protect demko. if he is good but gets eclipsed we protect demko and try and trade marky. if he has a solid season we trade demko or bribe seattle.

The problem is that Marky will be looking for a long-term contract. Some team may commit to giving him an NMC so that he doesn't get exposed in the expansion draft. I don't see Markstrom signing here without some sort of no trade protection at the very least. He's not going to re-sign here to be a one-year mentor for Markstrom unless we're offering him the most money.

 

[drax0s]

If you can get Marky on a sweetheart contract, you sign him and keep both, flipping Marky or leaving him exposed for the ED. If he wants too much term / money / both, you let him walk and maybe trade his rights to a team that needs goaltending for a late pick.

 

[Zombotron]

Shouldn't be much more than that to it. Also, I'd heavily weigh my opinion on whatever the goalie coach thinks if I were management.