Player Discussion: What to do with Lemieux?

[Spock]

Lemieux has been quietly improving his effectiveness...

Points / 60 (5v5): 1.44 (more than Connor, Copp, Petan and Lowry)
Penalty differential: +6 (taken 2, drawn 8)

His matchups are definitely more favourable than Connor, Lowry, and until recently, Copp.

Edit: what's the sample time frame?

 

[bustamente]

As long as his plays his game and doesn't do anything stupid he can stay in the lineup, some like him some don't, seem's like Maurice likes him and some of the sandpaper he brings

 

[Whileee]

His matchups are definitely more favourable than Connor, Lowry, and until recently, Copp.

Edit: what's the sample time frame?

Sample time frame is his entire 2018/19 season.

Yes, he gets favourable match-ups, but that's not as important as favourable line-mates, and he hasn't been playing with top talent.

Maybe the most surprising is that he's taken 2 penalties and drawn 8 (according to Natural Stat Trick). Other than that one game in Finland where he went bozo, he's been very disciplined, while still playing with an edge.

 

[LowLefty]

Lemieux has been quietly improving his effectiveness...

Points / 60 (5v5): 1.44 (more than Connor, Copp, Petan and Lowry)
Penalty differential: +6 (taken 2, drawn 8)

And this...

View attachment 174113

Who knew . . . .

 

[Spock]

Sample time frame is his entire 2018/19 season.

Yes, he gets favourable match-ups, but that's not as important as favourable line-mates, and he hasn't been playing with top talent.

Maybe the most surprising is that he's taken 2 penalties and drawn 8 (according to Natural Stat Trick). Other than that one game in Finland where he went bozo, he's been very disciplined, while still playing with an edge.

He has 36 PIM this season. I'm not trying to attack your point, I'm just questioning Natural Stat Trick now.

Edit:
One misconduct (10)
Three minors (6)
Two fights (10)
One match (FLA) (10)

 

[ffh]

Who knew . . . .

ppl willing to give him more then 10 games.

 

[Whileee]

He has 36 PIM this season. I'm not trying to attack your point, I'm just questioning Natural Stat Trick now.

Edit:
One misconduct (10)
Three minors (6)
Two fights (10)
One match (FLA) (10)

That's weird. Data was from Natural Stat Trick. I usually use Corsica Hockey for these stats, but the site was down earlier.

According to Corsica Hockey, he has taken 6 and drawn 9 penalties. That's still a +3 differential, which is very good considering his ice-time. The only two Jets with a better penalty differential per 60 minutes are Ehlers and Petan.

The main point is that he's managed to play more as an agitator than as a discipline problem, with the glaring exception of that game vs. the Panthers.

 

[Teppo Numenor]

he replaces copp. I thought he replaced tanev but tanev moved up

 

[Farmboy Patty]

he replaces copp. I thought he replaced tanev but tanev moved up

Perreault won't be around for long with his salary, so there will be a spot available in the bottom 6 for Lemmy if he keeps up his play to recent standard.

 

[LowLefty]

Perreault won't be around for long with his salary, so there will be a spot available in the bottom 6 for Lemmy if he keeps up his play to recent standard.

Lemmy with another very good game - I think he may be surprising a lot of Jet fans.
Maybe even winning a few over?

 

[Maukkis]

Know how a sub-47% Corsi player can score goals like no tomorrow?

By shooting over 21%.

 

[LowLefty]

Know how a sub-47% Corsi player can score goals like no tomorrow?

By shooting over 21%.

I said winning a few over - not all

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Know how a sub-47% Corsi player can score goals like no tomorrow?

By shooting over 21%.

Average fans dont give a f*** about any of that. The 55 of you on here are the extreme minority and even some ppl on here dont care about the math

 

[ffh]

is this a good time to mention that in the post gamer yesterday Maurice said he deflects the puck on shots to the net better then anybody on the team and that he will one day see pp time. imagine that. the pp.

 

[AKAChip]

That would be an extremely bad decision by Maurice. Worse than when he used Lowry on the PP. Luckily it sounds like coach speak.

 

[tntkid]

I honestly thought he was just a goon and then he started scoring goals.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Know how a sub-47% Corsi player can score goals like no tomorrow?

By shooting over 21%.

Or possibly by putting up a 80% corsi like last night.

 

[KingBogo]

Lemmy with another very good game - I think he may be surprising a lot of Jet fans.
Maybe even winning a few over?

Don't know if I'm fully convinced, but he does impact a game and I'll give him that. Last night was the 2nd game of the season where he was a big difference maker and he does seem to know how to score goals. Maurice is a fan of his work so I think he will be a regular in the lineup going forward.

 

[JetsFan815]

is this a good time to mention that in the post gamer yesterday Maurice said he deflects the puck on shots to the net better then anybody on the team and that he will one day see pp time. imagine that. the pp.

I concede he is probably above average around the net... he scored a lot of goals with the Moose and in the Juions tipping and banging in garbage right in front of the net on the PP, so I have no reason to question Maurice on him looking really good at deflections in practice.

The question with him is not his ability around the net though. The question has always been how often he going to be in position to cause damage netfront at 5 on 5 and take advantage of that skill? To do that you need to play in the offensive zone and away from your own zone and that is something lines involving him have struggled with (and it also happens to be one thing your 4th line must okay at to succeed in the league more than what you can do around the net)

 

[Whileee]

Know how a sub-47% Corsi player can score goals like no tomorrow?

By shooting over 21%.

Well, if you want to summarize with small sample sizes....

Relative CF%, 5v5, 2018/19:

Lemieux: -2.83
Little: -3.09
Connor: -4.06
Laine: -6.05
Niku: -11.03

Total points/60, 5v5:

Perreault: 1.76
Lemieux: 1.74
Roslovic: 1.44
Connor: 1.36

 

[Heldig]

That would be an extremely bad decision by Maurice. Worse than when he used Lowry on the PP. Luckily it sounds like coach speak.

Disagree. I can see the second unit PP running with a strong net front presence like Lemieux while Buff (or Trouba or ??) take slappers from the point.

 

[Whileee]

I concede he is probably above average around the net... he scored a lot of goals with the Moose and in the Juions tipping and banging in garbage right in front of the net on the PP, so I have no reason to question Maurice on him looking really good at deflections in practice.

The question with him is not his ability around the net though. The question has always been how often he going to be in position to cause damage netfront at 5 on 5 and take advantage of that skill? To do that you need to play in the offensive zone and away from your own zone and that is something lines involving him have struggled with (and it also happens to be one thing your 4th line must okay at to succeed in the league more than what you can do around the net)

He's likely been in the offensive zone more than Connor this season, and has actually produced points at a higher rate, too.

Lemieux certainly has his limitations, but after a very poor first 10-15 games in terms of shot metrics, he's been quite a bit better over the next 20 games or so. Overall, his rel CF% is only -2.86, which isn't terrible for a 4th liner, especially when you discount the shaky first 15 games or so.

I think he's being judged a tad harshly around here when you look objectively at his performance this season so far. He's been a net positive in penalty differential, is scoring at a 2nd line rate, and over the past 10-15 games he's above 50% on CF.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I wonder if he'll play with Copp and Roslo once we have a healthy line-up.

 

[AKAChip]

Disagree. I can see the second unit PP running with a strong net front presence like Lemieux while Buff (or Trouba or ??) take slappers from the point.

I can see the appeal, but I’d rather have a guy in front that can do more than just get in the way. Connor is usually the net front guy on the first PP. You don’t need an immovable object there.

 

[KingBogo]

He's likely been in the offensive zone more than Connor this season, and has actually produced points at a higher rate, too.

Lemieux certainly has his limitations, but after a very poor first 10-15 games in terms of shot metrics, he's been quite a bit better over the next 20 games or so. Overall, his rel CF% is only -2.86, which isn't terrible for a 4th liner, especially when you discount the shaky first 15 games or so.

I think he's being judged a tad harshly around here when you look objectively at his performance this season so far. He's been a net positive in penalty differential, is scoring at a 2nd line rate, and over the past 10-15 games he's above 50% on CF.

With one thing with Lemieux is it does seem that he is growing his game with each outing which is encouraging.