Player Discussion: What to do with Lemieux?

[KingBogo]

I wonder if he'll play with Copp and Roslo once we have a healthy line-up.

Assuming no other injuries it will be a toss up between him and Appleton as the #12 forward.

 

[JetsFan815]

He's likely been in the offensive zone more than Connor this season, and has actually produced points at a higher rate, too.

Lemieux certainly has his limitations, but after a very poor first 10-15 games in terms of shot metrics, he's been quite a bit better over the next 20 games or so. Overall, his rel CF% is only -2.86, which isn't terrible for a 4th liner, especially when you discount the shaky first 15 games or so.

I think he's being judged a tad harshly around here when you look objectively at his performance this season so far. He's been a net positive in penalty differential, is scoring at a 2nd line rate, and over the past 10-15 games he's above 50% on CF.

I am not too high on Connor so you will not see me defending him much. That said BL's Rel Teammate CF% is -4.35%, his Rel CF% is marginally better because he has played with great possession players like Copp and Perreault for much of season. But those guys do much better away from him than with him. His on ice xGoals % numbers are also last among Jets forwards.

He had a great game last night but that line (him included) were really bad for 5 games before that.

 

[Jack722]

Don't know if I'm fully convinced, but he does impact a game and I'll give him that. Last night was the 2nd game of the season where he was a big difference maker and he does seem to know how to score goals. Maurice is a fan of his work so I think he will be a regular in the lineup going forward.

3rd... don't forget florida

Hope he keeps playing decently, definitely a good thing but not getting carried away just yet.

 

[PhilJets]

Keep him..

Lets not trade our Jets depth.

 

[ffh]

He's likely been in the offensive zone more than Connor this season, and has actually produced points at a higher rate, too.

Lemieux certainly has his limitations, but after a very poor first 10-15 games in terms of shot metrics, he's been quite a bit better over the next 20 games or so. Overall, his rel CF% is only -2.86, which isn't terrible for a 4th liner, especially when you discount the shaky first 15 games or so.

I think he's being judged a tad harshly around here when you look objectively at his performance this season so far. He's been a net positive in penalty differential, is scoring at a 2nd line rate, and over the past 10-15 games he's above 50% on CF.

Why would anybody attempt to glean anything from shot metrics for rookies in their 1st 15 games in the league for that matter why would they even bother in their 1st 50 games. To much of a learning curve going on to care about shot metrics.

 

[LowLefty]

As I mentioned earlier, I think he will be surprising people -
I heard a comment during the game last night, about his speed and how he used to be quite slow.
He is now one of the fastest Jets after working on that aspect of this game.

I really like that in a player - he understands his weaknesses and works hard to improve the parts of his game that the org is calling out .
I'm sure that characteristic is one that Mo would appreciate and might be why he's investing in the kid.
He's also spending less time in the box and is not scrumming after every whistle - maybe he's learning.

I hope he continues to develop and build on his game - I'm a fan, I like him in the lineup

 

[10Ducky10]

Assuming no other injuries it will be a toss up between him and Appleton as the #12 forward.

Chevy probably gives the nod to Lemmy most nights...provided he doesn't go over the deep end.

 

[GNP]

I am not to high on Connor, so you won't see me defending him that much.

_______________________________________________________

Connor sometimes disappears sometimes, but then comes out of nowhere, and scores key goals. He likely has the best set of hands in close, of all the Jets, and a fast skater. ( very fast)

If I had to choose between Ehlers and Connor, I'd take Ehlers "all day long." He's the fastest and shiftiest Jet -- can lead a rush from his own end, open up ice in the offensive zone with his speed, and he also possesses a hard accurate shot. Ehlers is the complete hockey player, and can do it all.

Posters are saying on here Connor will demand "more money" than Ehlers, but if I were the GM --I don't think he's worth more than Ehlers -- he's worth less. From what I read he will want $ 7 mil ?? --is he worth $ 1 mil more than Ehlers ?? -- I don't think so.

IMO -- To have Ehlers signed for $ 6mil over 6 years, is a great deal, and I think he could get $ 7 to $ 7.5 on the open market.

They are both very good though--and "keepers" for sure.

 

[ffh]

Chevy probably gives the nod to Lemmy most nights...provided he doesn't go over the deep end.

I don't think its chevys choice but maurice chevy decides if he is on roster not if he sits in pb

 

[Whileee]

I am not too high on Connor so you will not see me defending him much. That said BL's Rel Teammate CF% is -4.35%, his Rel CF% is marginally better because he has played with great possession players like Copp and Perreault for much of season. But those guys do much better away from him than with him. His on ice xGoals % numbers are also last among Jets forwards.

He had a great game last night but that line (him included) were really bad for 5 games before that.

According to Natural Stat Trick Lemieux' relCF% is -2.83. Nothing to write home about, but as I noted above his metrics are much improved over the past 20 games or so. Not many good performances the past 5 games on the Jets.

He's played the majority of his minutes without either Perreault or Copp (only 30 minutes with Perreault).

My view is that he's inferior to Petan at this point, but it's very early in his career to make any conclusive assessments.

 

[Adam da bomb]

According to Natural Stat Trick Lemieux' relCF% is -2.83. Nothing to write home about, but as I noted above his metrics are much improved over the past 20 games or so. Not many good performances the past 5 games on the Jets.

He's played the majority of his minutes without either Perreault or Copp (only 30 minutes with Perreault).

My view is that he's inferior to Petan at this point, but it's very early in his career to make any conclusive assessments.

Except for having more goals than Petan in half the games. So yes inferior More two goal games.

 

[ffh]

Except for having more goals than Petan in half the games. So yes inferior More two goal games.

Correction a lot closer to 1/3 of the games played

 

[Board Bard]

He's likely been in the offensive zone more than Connor this season, and has actually produced points at a higher rate, too.

Lemieux certainly has his limitations, but after a very poor first 10-15 games in terms of shot metrics, he's been quite a bit better over the next 20 games or so. Overall, his rel CF% is only -2.86, which isn't terrible for a 4th liner, especially when you discount the shaky first 15 games or so.

I think he's being judged a tad harshly around here when you look objectively at his performance this season so far. He's been a net positive in penalty differential, is scoring at a 2nd line rate, and over the past 10-15 games he's above 50% on CF.

If he can stay on the right side of the numbers he could be an asset. Still would like to see Petan get some time (without Lemieux), but something something Mo.

 

[thejaf7]

MARIO LEMIEUX?

 

[Neuf]

Lemieux is our Tanev replacement next year when we can't afford Brandon.

And the team has badly needed someone who can deflect and clean up scraps.

No point in comparing him to anyone on the roster - his skillset is unique and he looks like he might just earn a spot permanently.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Lemieux is our Tanev replacement next year when we can't afford Brandon.

And the team has badly needed someone who can deflect and clean up scraps.

No point in comparing him to anyone on the roster - his skillset is unique and he looks like he might just earn a spot permanently.

What's our bottom 6 look like if Lemieux replaces Tanev. Appleton Lowry Lemieux. Ves Copp Roslo.

 

[Neuf]

What's our bottom 6 look like if Lemieux replaces Tanev. Appleton Lowry Lemieux. Ves Copp Roslo.

Shoot we need more skill down the middle.

 

[10Ducky10]

I don't think its chevys choice but maurice chevy decides if he is on roster not if he sits in pb

yeah you're right for whatever reason I've been getting those two mixed up lately.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Shoot we need more skill down the middle.

Maybe as part of the return for Trouba.

 

[JetsFan815]

According to Natural Stat Trick Lemieux' relCF% is -2.83. Nothing to write home about, but as I noted above his metrics are much improved over the past 20 games or so. Not many good performances the past 5 games on the Jets.

He's played the majority of his minutes without either Perreault or Copp (only 30 minutes with Perreault).

My view is that he's inferior to Petan at this point, but it's very early in his career to make any conclusive assessments.

Your number is correct but I was citing Rel Teammate Corsi- it is published on Corsica it is slightly different from Rel Corsi and does better at isolating impact. Unlike Rel Corsi which is just

Rel Corsi = "Corsi with player on-ice" - "Corsi with player off-ice"

Rel Teammate Corsi is:

Rel Teammate Corsi ="Target Player's on-ice CF%" - "Weighed average of the CF% away from the Target Player of every single player that the Target Player played with (weighed by TOI)".

It's worse for Lemieux as it is able to take into account that Lemiuex played say 60 mins with Copp and Copp's Corsi away from Lemeiux was 53% (numbers made up for illustrative purposes), it uses that to calculate the the 2nd variable in the right hand side of that equation. So if you play with really good possession players like Copp and Perreault you will get dinged more if your corsi is not great. Whereas Rel Corsi is comparing you against the entire team so great Corsi players like Copp/Perreault are able to lift you up, and bad Corsi players like the 2nd line are able to drag down the team's corsi with you off the ice to make you look better relatively speaking.

Regardless, I have never said that "Lemieux sucks and will always suck, abandon all hope". The only thing I have said is that the 4th line has struggled esp with him on it and their results should make the coach atleast have a player like Petan be part of the rotation of players playing on that line, if the goal is to win in the short and medium term over the next few months. I have not made any conclusive statements about him, just said that Petan deserves to play in the lineup every now and then based on his so far excellent results this season and BL should be part of that rotation in and out of the lineup based on his 2-way results with the sole purpose of "winning now" not "developing players".

We are in agreement then as you have similar views on him and Petan, the difference is that I want these players to be deployed so as to "win now" and leave the "development" aspect to practices/the Moose.

 

[Maukkis]

Average fans dont give a **** about any of that. The 55 of you on here are the extreme minority and even some ppl on here dont care about the math

That does not make the average fan right, nor does it make the player any better.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

I am not too high on Connor so you will not see me defending him much. That said BL's Rel Teammate CF% is -4.35%, his Rel CF% is marginally better because he has played with great possession players like Copp and Perreault for much of season. But those guys do much better away from him than with him. His on ice xGoals % numbers are also last among Jets forwards.

He had a great game last night but that line (him included) were really bad for 5 games before that.

Just curious - wondering how anyone could not be "too high on Connor"? He's one of our most dynamic forwards based on my observations this year. It's kind of scary to think how good he will be in a few years. He may be more productive than #29 by then...

 

[larmex99]

Just curious - wondering how anyone could not be "too high on Connor"? He's one of our most dynamic forwards based on my observations this year. It's kind of scary to think how good he will be in a few years. He may be more productive than #29 by then...

Simple answer: because this is a forum and everybody gets to express themselves without being hindered by hockey knowledge, experience or sound judgement. Sometimes when I cringe at a comment on our forum I go to the Vegas or Gnashville forums for a quick read and start to feel way better about us.

 

[KingBogo]

3rd... don't forget florida

Hope he keeps playing decently, definitely a good thing but not getting carried away just yet.

I didn't know if the kid would be able to return from the low of that game and start contributing like he has. Actually says a lot about him. He just might go from an almost universally disliked player on this board to a regular, to an important player at some point in the future. Kind of reminds me of how everyone seemed to view Tanev, and then we witnessed the gradual growth to the player he has become today.

 

[LowLefty]

I want these players to be deployed so as to "win now" and leave the "development" aspect to practices/the Moose[/B].

We are a very young team - one of the youngest in the league - draft and develop.
Learning and growing for our younger crew will be a critical part of their development and it will not be limited to practices and the Moose.