Player Discussion: What to do with Lemieux?

LowLefty

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Even had this not occurred, it would have been Lemieux time to sit or be sent down.

Maurice has been very candid that his intention was providing the press box players multiple consecutive games before making any permanent decision. Vesalainen got his as did Lemieux.

It's now Petan's time.

It is and I hope he brings it -
He has a ton to offer - hopefully he now realizes what it takes and what he has to bring, to play NHL hockey
 

surixon

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It is and I hope he brings it -
He has a ton to offer - hopefully he now realizes what it takes and what he has to bring, to play NHL hockey

Petan has already shown he can bring it in a limited role. The Armia/Petan/Copp line back at the end of 2015-16 was fantastic in limited minutes. Here are the lines underlying numbers for the 9 games they were together:


63.75 CF%
90 % HDCF
The line scored a 4.87 GF per 60
The line also wasn't on the ice for a goal against.

The line had a high PDO but the underlying numbers still point to an elite 4th line. It shocks me that we never saw that combination again, instead Maurice insisted on sabotaging the 4th line with Thor for years. Petan is quite capable of playing on the 4th line with Roslovic and Copp, it will be up Maurice to show he's grown a bit as a coach.
 
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voyageur

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Petan has already shown he can bring it in a limited role. The Armia/Petan/Copp line back at the end of 2015-16 was fantastic in limited minutes. Here are the lines underlying numbers for the 9 games they were together:


63.75 CF%
90 % HDCF
The line scored a 4.87 GF per 60
The line also wasn't on the ice for a goal against.

The line had a high PDO but the underlying numbers still point to an elite 4th line. It shocks me that we never saw that combination again, instead Maurice insisted on sabotaging the 4th line with Thor for years. Petan is quite capable of playing on the 4th line with Roslovic and Copp, it will be up Maurice to show he's grown a bit as a coach.

I know that the stats look good, but that was a line that played in a dead season. Nothing on the line. Pressure is high now. But I do think it can be a functional 4th line, with Roslovic, or Perreault replacing Armia.
 

KingBogo

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Petan has already shown he can bring it in a limited role. The Armia/Petan/Copp line back at the end of 2015-16 was fantastic in limited minutes. Here are the lines underlying numbers for the 9 games they were together:


63.75 CF%
90 % HDCF
The line scored a 4.87 GF per 60
The line also wasn't on the ice for a goal against.

The line had a high PDO but the underlying numbers still point to an elite 4th line. It shocks me that we never saw that combination again, instead Maurice insisted on sabotaging the 4th line with Thor for years. Petan is quite capable of playing on the 4th line with Roslovic and Copp, it will be up Maurice to show he's grown a bit as a coach.
Don't know why everything has to point back to Maurice. At some point Petan has to consistently show that he can be an effective NHLer. That is on him. He is 23 y/o with 96 NHL games played with not much to show for it. I am hopeful he can produce enough to stick though I wouldn't make a large wager on it. I think he will now get a handful of games with some good line mates to show what he can do. If he is unable to, there might be a couple guys on the Moose who will get their opportunity.
 
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Flair Hay

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Don't know why everything has to point back to Maurice. At some point Petan has to consistently show that he can be an effective NHLer. That is on him. He is 23 y/o with 96 NHL games played with not much to show for it. I am hopeful he can produce enough to stick though I wouldn't make a large wager on it. I think he will now get a handful of games with some good line mates to show what he can do. If he is unable to, there might be a couple guys on the Moose who will get their opportunity.

People talk like players are constants in some equation Maurice should be solving. When they are anything but.

Hopefully Petan can seize the day with Lemieux f***ing up pretty bad.
 

surixon

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Don't know why everything has to point back to Maurice. At some point Petan has to consistently show that he can be an effective NHLer. That is on him. He is 23 y/o with 96 NHL games played with not much to show for it. I am hopeful he can produce enough to stick though I wouldn't make a large wager on it. I think he will now get a handful of games with some good line mates to show what he can do. If he is unable to, there might be a couple guys on the Moose who will get their opportunity.

I donn't know why it is such a bad thing to point out that Maurice prefers certain types of players for certain roles or wonder why a line that showed a great deal of promise and had some nice results over a stretch was never tried again. After all it is the coach who sets the line up does he not? I also have wondered why Maurice hasn't gone back to the highly successful Perrault Little Ehlers line.

But yes Petan will need to come out and seize the opportunity. I just find it funny that there isn't the same type dumping on Roslovic that there has been with Petan. He is proving that he also can't get much accomplished in a limited role so far in the NHL at an equiviliant age but like with Petan if you play him up the line up with good players he has good results.

Having said that I think the fourth line as constructed has a nice array of complimentary skills and if given enough ice time will make a positive impact.
 
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Adam da bomb

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Don't know why everything has to point back to Maurice. At some point Petan has to consistently show that he can be an effective NHLer. That is on him. He is 23 y/o with 96 NHL games played with not much to show for it. I am hopeful he can produce enough to stick though I wouldn't make a large wager on it. I think he will now get a handful of games with some good line mates to show what he can do. If he is unable to, there might be a couple guys on the Moose who will get their opportunity.
It's on both Mo and Petan. Petan needs to bring it every shift he is on the ice and make a positive difference, but, Petan doesn't even see the ice unless Mo gives that line some ice time. Can't shine from the bench.
 

LowLefty

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Petan has already shown he can bring it in a limited role. The Armia/Petan/Copp line back at the end of 2015-16 was fantastic in limited minutes. Here are the lines underlying numbers for the 9 games they were together:


63.75 CF%
90 % HDCF
The line scored a 4.87 GF per 60
The line also wasn't on the ice for a goal against.

The line had a high PDO but the underlying numbers still point to an elite 4th line. It shocks me that we never saw that combination again, instead Maurice insisted on sabotaging the 4th line with Thor for years. Petan is quite capable of playing on the 4th line with Roslovic and Copp, it will be up Maurice to show he's grown a bit as a coach.

Last year Petan didn't take advantage of his time with the Jets - he didn't get a ton of time but what he did get, he didn't use to his best advantage.
Like I said, I like Petan and know he has potential - but looking back to 2015/16 isn't what I was referring to - I'm pushing of LY where I know Petan could have done better.
 
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LowLefty

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It's on both Mo and Petan. Petan needs to bring it every shift he is on the ice and make a positive difference, but, Petan doesn't even see the ice unless Mo gives that line some ice time. Can't shine from the bench.

Take advantage of the time you get and don't try to control what is out of your hands (such as ice time)
 

KingBogo

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I donn't know why it is such a bad thing to point out that Maurice prefers certain types of players for certain roles or wonder why a line that showed a great deal of promise and had some nice results over a stretch was never tried again. After all it is the coach who sets the line up does he not? I also have wondered why Maurice hasn't gone back to the highly successful Perrault Little Ehlers line.

But yes Petan will need to come out and seize the opportunity. I just find it funny that there isn't the same type dumping on Roslovic that there has been with Petan. He is proving that he also can't get much accomplished in a limited role so far in the NHL at an equiviliant age but like with Petan if you play him up the line up with good players he has good results.

Having said that I think the fourth line as constructed has a nice array of complimentary skills and if given enough ice time will make a positive impact.
The rose will come off Rosie in a couple years if he to remains an AHL/NHL tweener. I try not to become too attached to players until they prove to be every day NHLers. As of now Rosie is 2 years younger and has shown more across different roles, but he has yet to cement his status on the team and the NHL.

Maurice has pulled out the blender plenty and it use to be this boards biggest criticism of him. We have too much talent for someone not to be pissed off that a player they like hasn't got optimal usage, and I really don't buy into it much as the lines constantly change and players need to adapt to each other. We can all throw out theories why certain players like to play with certain players and why Mo likes guys playing more often with each other. But I don't have any inside info just like anyone else around here.

My personal hot take on why Wheeler and Scheifele are joined at the hip, is Mo is trying to avoid his franchise center getting too bad of a pounding along the boards and in the corners being the primary puck retriever on a line which he would be playing with Ehlers and Laine. I think this is especially true seeing Scheifele getting a serious shoulder injury last season and how much he was relied on come playoff time.

Edit: and Lemieux will get his opportunity again, just so I can throw him in ;)
 
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ps241

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This should be Petan’s season or I am ready to call it. Gone are Thor, Peluso, and Hendy. We are pretty much low skill free at this point and there are pretty much only solid options for Nic. There is one question on my mind....will his extra time in the AHL combined with being part of a functional group like Copp and Roslo finally lead to a nice run in the NHL where Nic takes “the” big step forward? Can they become a really good 4th line or do they just fade to black?

Honestly at this point I have no problem visualizing any outcome :laugh:
 
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KingBogo

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This should be Petan’s season or I am ready to call it. Gone are Thor, Peluso, and Hendy. We are pretty much low skill free at this point and there are pretty much only solid options for Nic. There is one question on my mind....will his extra time in the AHL combined with being part of a functional group like Copp and Roslo finally lead to a nice run in the NHL where Nic takes “the” big step forward? Can they become a really good 4th line or do they just fade to black?

Honestly at this point I have no problem visualizing any outcome :laugh:
It is kind of where I am at as well. It appears that Mo is auditioning players for the final roster spot. KV then Lemieux and now Petan. If Petan doesn't grab it I think Appleton will get a chance. In hockey terms he is no longer a spring chicken at 22 y/o and has earned a look. After that there may yet be another player or 2 who gets a look depending how they do on the Moose.
 

Jet

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"Brendan's got a bit of a unique game. The physicality is a certain part of it. But that line that gets crossed, it can't be who you become as a player. So it's a learning experience for him," Maurice said.

"A little too close to the edge on both those penalties. And there was a price paid for it both by our team and by his suspension. We need him to bring all the good qualities, that hard physical game, and ride that edge a little better."

"That's the challenge for the player. You still have to bring what you're capable of bringing and what your skill set is. He's a physical guy, he's going to finish his check, going to go to the net hard. And he's going to learn. We don't expect that he's going to come off the body. A half-step, right. Just a little more to the shoulder there and it's a good, clean play."

***

Doesn't sound like Mo is too upset about what happened, but we will see where Lemiuex ends up.
I don't think you blow up a rookie in the media. We have no idea what Mo really thinks. Honestly, I thought those were pretty strong words to say in front of cameras.
 

Jet

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This should be Petan’s season or I am ready to call it. Gone are Thor, Peluso, and Hendy. We are pretty much low skill free at this point and there are pretty much only solid options for Nic. There is one question on my mind....will his extra time in the AHL combined with being part of a functional group like Copp and Roslo finally lead to a nice run in the NHL where Nic takes “the” big step forward? Can they become a really good 4th line or do they just fade to black?

Honestly at this point I have no problem visualizing any outcome :laugh:
Still waiting to see Petan have any real impact at the NHL, anything to give him a better chance. If he is as good as many here say, big bad Paul Maurice won't keep him out of the lineup.

Cause, you know, Maurice wouldn't want the most impactful players on his team, to, like, win. :laugh:

PS impactful doesn't necessarily = skill (though they go hand in hand often).
 

Whileee

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"Brendan's got a bit of a unique game. The physicality is a certain part of it. But that line that gets crossed, it can't be who you become as a player. So it's a learning experience for him," Maurice said.

"A little too close to the edge on both those penalties. And there was a price paid for it both by our team and by his suspension. We need him to bring all the good qualities, that hard physical game, and ride that edge a little better."

"That's the challenge for the player. You still have to bring what you're capable of bringing and what your skill set is. He's a physical guy, he's going to finish his check, going to go to the net hard. And he's going to learn. We don't expect that he's going to come off the body. A half-step, right. Just a little more to the shoulder there and it's a good, clean play."

***

Doesn't sound like Mo is too upset about what happened, but we will see where Lemiuex ends up.
I wouldn't be fooled by the mildness of the responses. Maurice seldom throws players under the bus publicly, but I would bet that he heard about it plenty behind closed doors. I think Lemieux is in for some tough love from the Jets' organization. They like a lot of what he brings, but they aren't going to tolerate a young player that puts himself first by taking dumb penalties.
 

Whileee

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Petan has already shown he can bring it in a limited role. The Armia/Petan/Copp line back at the end of 2015-16 was fantastic in limited minutes. Here are the lines underlying numbers for the 9 games they were together:


63.75 CF%
90 % HDCF
The line scored a 4.87 GF per 60
The line also wasn't on the ice for a goal against.

The line had a high PDO but the underlying numbers still point to an elite 4th line. It shocks me that we never saw that combination again, instead Maurice insisted on sabotaging the 4th line with Thor for years. Petan is quite capable of playing on the 4th line with Roslovic and Copp, it will be up Maurice to show he's grown a bit as a coach.
Yup. I've been saying this for some time. Petan-Copp-xyz is worth a try. I like the idea of Petan-Copp-Roslovic. I think Copp and Roslovic will drive the play with speed, and Petan is a smart player that can add a bit of offense.
 

Whileee

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This should be Petan’s season or I am ready to call it. Gone are Thor, Peluso, and Hendy. We are pretty much low skill free at this point and there are pretty much only solid options for Nic. There is one question on my mind....will his extra time in the AHL combined with being part of a functional group like Copp and Roslo finally lead to a nice run in the NHL where Nic takes “the” big step forward? Can they become a really good 4th line or do they just fade to black?

Honestly at this point I have no problem visualizing any outcome :laugh:
I'd be surprised if Petan-Copp-Roslovic can't hold their own and then some as a 4th line at the NHL level. I think the big question is whether they are going to get enough ice-time to make a positive contribution. Up until now, the Jets have had such a light schedule that Maurice has been riding his top players heavily, but I expect that as the schedule gets busier we'll see him use more of his roster.
 
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ps241

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Still waiting to see Petan have any real impact at the NHL, anything to give him a better chance. If he is as good as many here say, big bad Paul Maurice won't keep him out of the lineup.

Cause, you know, Maurice wouldn't want the most impactful players on his team, to, like, win. :laugh:

PS impactful doesn't necessarily = skill (though they go hand in hand often).

Nic devides the crowd here. I really liked what I saw when he played with Copp and Armia a few seasons ago but that was then and lots of below average water has flowed under the bridge since then. It’s time to cut bait.

I wish Petan would take a page out of Perreault and Connor’s playbook. They were both highly skilled offensively gifted players in lower leagues..... Matty was tiny and not a blazing skater and Connor was really slight but they both worked really hard at carving out a defensive identity. If Nic could do that the rest of his game will come. I am hoping he developed a bit more of the D in the AHL last season but who knows.

One thing I am aware of is happy endings are rare for the fringe talent in the NHL. It’s not unheard of for them to surprise (Tanev) but it is far more common for things to just not come together. Hopefully it’s Nic’s time..... the kid could use a break in life this year.
 
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Jet

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Nic decides the crowd here. I really liked what I saw when he played with Copp and Armia a few seasons ago but that was then and lots of below average water has flowed under the bridge since then. It’s time to cut bait.

I wish Petan would take a page out of Perreault and Connor’s playbook. They were both highly skilled offensively gifted players in lower leagues..... Matty was tiny and not a blazing skater and Connor was really slight but they both worked really hard at carving out a defensive identity. If Nic could do that the rest of his game will come. I am hoping he developed a bit more of the D in the AHL last season but who knows.

One thing I am aware of is happy endings are rare for the fringe talent in the NHL. It’s not unheard of for them to surprise (Tanev) but it is far more common for things to just not come together. Hopefully it’s Nic’s time..... the kid could use a break in life this year.

We're totally OT now, but I liked Petan's first period. I think that line has promise
 
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10Ducky10

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A really good period by Petan. He is doing his best to stay on the game time roster.
I still think he is destined to be a pressbox player, especially when Vaseline gets called up.
Petan and Lemieux in the pressbox ready to step in is pretty not too bad.
 
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voyageur

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I think putting Petan in on the PP, instead of Perreault would cement his role. Puck movement is always the key to a good PP.

I like the way Maurice talks about his players in the media. Coaches who call out their players look foolish, when they are riding on those players. Ken Wiebe said it right, Lemieux has to earn back Maurice's trust now.
 

WolfgangPuck

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I still think Lemieux can be a useful player for the Jets. Let the 2 game suspension be a lesson to him
I like to see Lemieux in the line up when we play teams like the Caps and the Bruins and see how we can match up against their agitator on the ice
 

ps241

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We're totally OT now, but I liked Petan's first period. I think that line has promise

I looked up when you posted this and realized we are in the Lemmy thread.........Yikes.
 
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Whileee

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Lemieux has been quietly improving his effectiveness...

Points / 60 (5v5): 1.44 (more than Connor, Copp, Petan and Lowry)
Penalty differential: +6 (taken 2, drawn 8)

And this...

upload_2019-1-10_13-58-9.png
 

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