What Level of Credit is Due to Dorion for the Karlsson Deal?

[Sensung]

does anyone really care what happens to SJ after this season? I know I don't. This season was all that mattered to me. And it's truly amazing that they were so awful

I care and it matters to me.

Homer falling backwards into success looks great at this point. Let’s see how it plays out over the longterm.

 

[Sensung]

Right, thats kind of the point though. You ignored him as a variable, his impact was pointed out as relevant.

The whole point is if you want to credibly evaluate why Karlsson had a drop in plus minus, you need to look at all the variables. You may not care about him, but that's part of why you argument is flawed.

Precisely.

 

[Hinterland]

Right, thats kind of the point though. You ignored him as a variable, his impact was pointed out as relevant.

The whole point is if you want to credibly evaluate why Karlsson had a drop in plus minus, you need to look at all the variables. You may not care about him, but that's part of why you argument is flawed.

Nah. My point is that he needs a babysitter playing alongside him in order to be effective at even strength. He won't get that one in SJ so he won't be able to carry them single handedly. That's my point. And that's why I have zero hopes for SJ. I honestly wish them only the best...but it would be incredibly naive to think that they're somehow more than a lottery team for years.

 

[BatherSeason]

This thread was to assess and grade Pierre Dorion's role in the trade, but as usual, the Karlsson haters have done their best to derail and continue the trend of bashing players as they leave town to fit the narrative the team wants. The fact of the matter is, nobody cares anymore about what happens to the Sharks going forward. If you hate EK, he's gone, get over it.

Pierre Dorion ended up getting a great return in the trade. Was he lucky? In my opinion VERY.

 

[Sensung]

I do, because I like the Sharks and because Timo Meier is playing for them...not a lot of reasons for hope though. Their roster is a mess, they're up against the cap, they can't move any salary because they've crippled themselves with long term contracts protected by NMC's and their prospect pool is empty. Wish I could see something positive but it's hard. They're much like Detroit.

The Sharks have a wealthy owner who has consistently demonstrated a willingness to spend.

The fallout of the Covid-19 stoppage could include buyouts that SJ would likely use to shift their cap structure.

The Sharks future is far from set and their position isn’t nearly as dire as you are portraying.

 

[Hinterland]

This thread was to assess and grade Pierre Dorion's role in the trade, but as usual, the Karlsson haters have done their best to derail and continue the trend of bashing players as they leave town to fit the narrative the team wants. The fact of the matter is, nobody cares anymore about what happens to the Sharks going forward. If you hate EK, he's gone, get over it.

Pierre Dorion ended up getting a great return in the trade. Was he lucky? In my opinion VERY.

Where though? I don't see it.
I like both Karlsson and the Sharks. I've always liked the Sharks and Timo Meier is currently my favourite NHL player. But why would you be optimistic for the Sharks right now? It's hard to find any reasons...

And no, Dorion wasn't lucky. He was lucky to receive that offer for a rental but the return isn't lucky. SJ was expected to fall in the standings...maybe not this far down so a bit of luck with the pick but Norris would be an established NHLer if it wasn't for that terrible injury he suffered. Don't forget about that.

For further evaluations you'd need to be an insider but I'm pretty confident that the Sens evaluation of the assets involved was way better than the Sharks. Had the Sharks known how good Norris is then I'm sure they wouldn't have done the deal.

 

[Hinterland]

The Sharks have a wealthy owner who has consistently demonstrated a willingness to spend.

The fallout of the Covid-19 stoppage could include buyouts that SJ would likely use to shift their cap structure.

The Sharks future is far from set and their position isn’t nearly as dire as you are portraying.

Remains to be seen. Again. I'm hoping for the best for the Sharks...but the cap is also gonna go down and that's not gonna help them. We'll see.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I care and it matters to me.

Homer falling backwards into success looks great at this point. Let’s see how it plays out over the longterm.

Why does it matter to you though? I'm not criticizing you, I'm just wondering. Personally, all I wanted was for them to be bad this year. After that, whatever, win the cup for all I care.

 

[Micklebot]

Nah. My point is that he needs a babysitter playing alongside him in order to be effective at even strength. He won't get that one in SJ so he won't be able to carry them single handedly. That's my point. And that's why I have zero hopes for SJ. I honestly wish them only the best...but it would be incredibly naive to think that they're somehow more than a lottery team for years.

But your evidence is lacking. Thats the point. When you point to him playing with the corpse of Oduya as proof he needs to be babysat, expect the fact that oduya was terrible to be brought up, or for that matter the fact that he was coming off surgery and no training camp that season.

 

[BatherSeason]

Where though? I don't see it.
I like both Karlsson and the Sharks. I've always liked the Sharks and Timo Meier is currently my favourite NHL player. But why would you be optimistic for the Sharks right now? It's hard to find any reasons...

Why would we be discussing optimism towards the Sharks in a thread that asks how well Dorion did in the EK trade?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

This thread was to assess and grade Pierre Dorion's role in the trade, but as usual, the Karlsson haters have done their best to derail and continue the trend of bashing players as they leave town to fit the narrative the team wants. The fact of the matter is, nobody cares anymore about what happens to the Sharks going forward. If you hate EK, he's gone, get over it.

Pierre Dorion ended up getting a great return in the trade. Was he lucky? In my opinion VERY.

Is John Scott trying to fit the narrative as well?

but i agree, I couldn't care less about SJ or EK anymore. It's over.

 

[BatherSeason]

Is John Scott trying to fit the narrative as well?

What the heck does John Scott know?? I would still ove to see the quotes/proof from the poster where he states that Vlasic hates EK and that John Scott knows whats happening in the locker room.

 

[Hinterland]

But your evidence is lacking. Thats the point. When you point to him playing with the corpse of Oduya as proof he needs to be babysat, expect the fact that oduya was terrible to be brought up, or for that matter the fact that he was coming off surgery and no training camp that season.

You can also watch the last Sharks season when he didn't play with Dillon or other games he played without Methot or a strong defensive partner. Karlsson needs a babysitter to be really effective at even strength. He needs somebody to cover for him defensively and to do the physical work, for example along the boards. History has shown that an average partner isn't gonna do for him. He needs a quality stay at home partner. If you don't believe me, watch next season. I'd be surprised if he's effective because the best he can hope for is Radim Simek.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

What the heck does John Scott know??

who knows. He was quoting a Sharks player who told him stuff. Whatever.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Remains to be seen. Again. I'm hoping for the best for the Sharks...but the cap is also gonna go down and that's not gonna help them. We'll see.

The cap might stay put instead of going down.

 

[BatherSeason]

who knows. He was quoting a Sharks player who told him stuff. Whatever.

Where's the quote?

 

[Sensung]

Why does it matter to you though? I'm not criticizing you, I'm just wondering. Personally, all I wanted was for them to be bad this year. After that, whatever, win the cup for all I care.

Because EK is one of my favourite players of all time and I want to see him have success.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Where's the quote?

it's right on the sharks board as the person you were arguing with said : John Scott on Erik Karlsson

and don't shoot the messenger - I don't care at all about John Scott or EK drama

 

[Hinterland]

Why would we be discussing optimism towards the Sharks in a thread that asks how well Dorion did in the EK trade?

I'm not trying to...I just wanted to state that I'm not bashing Karlsson or the Sharks after you accused users of bashing them in this thread...I wish them only the best.

 

[Sensung]

Remains to be seen. Again. I'm hoping for the best for the Sharks...but the cap is also gonna go down and that's not gonna help them. We'll see.

Thanks for dropping in to our board and offering your opinion.

I’ll be happy to revisit as things play out.

 

[bert]

Again, trading for Karlsson wasn't the mistake. Signing him was. That's why they had to let go so many of their vets and that's why they went from contender to laughing matter in essentially no time.

Nobody wants Labanc...there are lots of reports about SJ trying to trade Labanc...it never happened. For a good reason. Great skills but no hockey sense at all. Also, SJ wouldn't have traded three roster players for one...that wasn't gonna happen. If Labanc was included, it would have been for DeMelo. They also wouldn't have included a top6 forward in the Karlsson deal so Hertl, I'm 100% sure, was never even part of the conversations between the teams. Even if Dorion mentioned Hertl, Wilson would have hung up his phone immediately. Wilson was trying to land Karlsson to win cups, not to drift sidewards and improve his defense just to weaken his forward group.

No hockey sense on Labanc. Yikes.

There's a good chance the Sharks will finish at least bottom 5 two seasons in a row after getting to the conference finals and barely losing to the cup champs, just like Ottawa. I don't see why Doug Wilson gets a pass while Dorion is (rightly) raked over the coals for the same outcome.

The scenarios arent the same the sharks have been on the brink for years they just got to the SCF and multiple seasons with playoff wins. I dont understand how Dorion is getting praise for unsuccessfully trying to sign Karlsson and Wilson is getting lambasted for it. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Sensung]

I'm not trying to...I just wanted to state that I'm not bashing Karlsson or the Sharks after you accused users of bashing them in this thread...I wish them only the best.

You have bashed EK and the Sharks non stop since you began posting in this thread. Again, it isn’t hard to search and find your previous posts.

 

[Hinterland]

You have bashed EK and the Sharks non stop since you began posting in this thread. Again, it isn’t hard to search and find your previous posts.

There's a difference between bashing and a realistic view of things. Again. I'm following the Sharks every season...even before they drafted Timo Meier but now more than ever. Great franchise with a great owner.

 

[Hinterland]

No hockey sense on Labanc. Yikes.

Go ask the Sharks board...they'll all tell you the same. He has the speed and technique of a star but he's fallen through as a top6 forward multiple times because of a lack of strength but mainly because of wrong decisions with and without the puck. Very frustrating player to watch...does almost everything wrong against the puck, has great vision for passes but tends not to play them when he should just to play hail mary passes when he shouldn't. Plays the extra pass when he's in a great spot to shoot the puck just to shoot pucks into obvious blocks or shoot from impossible angles. Also has no eye for open spaces...constantly shooting or passing with open space in front of him just to skate right into defenders when there's no space at all.

There were numerous reports of Wilson trying to trade Labanc but it never happened...a lot of scouting in today's day and age. Hard to sell fools gold.

 

[Sensung]

There's a difference between bashing and a realistic view of things. Again. I'm following the Sharks every season...even before they drafted Timo Meier but now more than ever. Great franchise with a great owner.

Your personal biased opinion does not define reality.

In truth, this thread has revealed your tendency to deny reality if it doesn’t fit your narrative when you repeatedly claim you didn’t make statements that are clearly there for all to read.