What Level of Credit is Due to Dorion for the Karlsson Deal?

[Sensung]

Yeah, you're living in your Karlsson dreamworld instead and are constantly talking about unrealistic scenarios like Karlsson playing career years or the Sharks becoming contenders again. None of your phantasies are gonna happen...but hey, whatever makes you happy I guess.

The word is fantasy.

And I'll happily remind you when EK returns to Norris level play.

 

[DueDiligence]

Here's a question to ponder.

How long would this thread last on this board if EK had been dominant and the Sharks had won the cup and looked poised to do so again?

He wasn't and they didn't and they won't so your question is irrelevant.

 

[Sensung]

He wasn't and they didn't and they won't so your question is irrelevant.

The question is hypothetical.

Just a little thought exercise for the thought police.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

The premise of THIS thread is that Karlsson has declined and does Dorion deserve credit for anticipating it.

If you want to start a thread about an alternate universe where Karlsson is still the player he was three years ago, playing for a juggernaut Sharks team, go for it.

 

[Sensung]

The premise of THIS thread is that Karlsson has declined and does Dorion deserve credit for anticipating it.

If you want to start a thread about an alternate universe where Karlsson is still the player he was three years ago, playing for a juggernaut Sharks team, go for it.

The premise can handle discussion of alternative outcomes.

When EK returns to form I'm sure I'll be given the same leeway to discuss that development.

 

[Agent Zub]

Karlsson was great last year tho. Best player in the league at one point.


But he of course got injured again so really no one is right.

 

[Hinterland]

Karlsson was great last year tho. Best player in the league at one point.


But he of course got injured again so really no one is right.

He never was. He was half decent when paired with Dillon but that's about it.

And he's always playing injured. That won't change ever again because of his crippled foot. Just compare his skating to what it was a few years back. He's nowhere near and it's only gonna get worse.

 

[Hinterland]

The word is fantasy.

And I'll happily remind you when EK returns to Norris level play.

He won't.
I get that you're a big fan and stuff and I don't want to discourage you from cheering for Karlsson and the Sharks as I'm doing just the same but the reality is that Karlsson has a crippled foot and hasn't been himself in years now...so you might wanna temper your expectations just a little bit. Karlsson's skating ability is way down from what it once was.

 

[Tuna99]

I wonder how many years of the 8 year extension SJ will say “We’re glad we paid him $11.5 this year”?

My current count is 0/1. He may not live you to his contract in any of those 8 years.

I don’t bet against EK65, i’ve seen what he can do and the intensity he plays with, this extended break might be the best thing for him to sort out his body. He’ll be the best in the NHL again next season

 

[Sweatred]

I don’t bet against EK65, i’ve seen what he can do and the intensity he plays with, this extended break might be the best thing for him to sort out his body. He’ll be the best in the NHL again next season

He is still young and in the early years of his 8 year deal. I agree that we will see a great player in stretches and we will also see injuries and nights where he is a -5.

Comfort, wives, retirement contracts, children, age, injuries are all working against him at this point.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Well they say timing is everything:

Franchise-defining deal: Tracing the branches of the...

 

[Hinterland]

I don’t bet against EK65, i’ve seen what he can do and the intensity he plays with, this extended break might be the best thing for him to sort out his body. He’ll be the best in the NHL again next season

Sadly, I guess you get safely bet against him.

You can't sort out fractures or damaged tendons in a foot. It's never gonna be like before an injury...no matter whether you risk surgical repair or not. Since his foot isn't gonna get any better, his skating will continue to get worse. Since skating has always been his biggest strength, there's not a lot of hope. To actually live up to his contract, he'd need to improve in areas he failed to do so ever since entering the league such as strength on the puck, strength along the boards, checking, gap control and overall positioning against the puck.

It's not impossible of course but at the same time this would have been much easier to do at 20. He's also playing for what could well be the worst team in the NHL for years (alongside Detroit I guess). Probably not helping his motivation.

Again, I'm willing to believe that the team medics talked to the Front Office about the injured foot and that the rather negative outlook was part of the reason why Karlsson isn't with the Sens anymore.

 

[Sensung]

Sadly, I guess you get safely bet against him.

You can't sort out fractures or damaged tendons in a foot. It's never gonna be like before an injury...no matter if you risk surgical repair or not. Since his foot isn't gonna get any better, his skating will continue to get worse. Since skating has always been his biggest strength, there's not a lot of hope. To actually live up to his contract, he'd need to improve in areas he failed to do so ever since entering the league such as strength on the puck, strength along the boards, checking, gap control and overall positioning against the puck.

It's not impossible of course but at the same time this would have been much easier to do at 20. He's also playing for what could well be the worst team in the NHL for years (alongside Detroit I guess). Probably not helping his motivation.

You are completely ignoring the long stretches of play EK has had post surgery in San Jose where he was back to his dominant self. If/when he puts a season of that focused level of play together, he'll be once again in the Norris discussion.

 

[Tuna99]

Sadly, I guess you get safely bet against him.

You can't sort out fractures or damaged tendons in a foot. It's never gonna be like before an injury...no matter whether you risk surgical repair or not. Since his foot isn't gonna get any better, his skating will continue to get worse. Since skating has always been his biggest strength, there's not a lot of hope. To actually live up to his contract, he'd need to improve in areas he failed to do so ever since entering the league such as strength on the puck, strength along the boards, checking, gap control and overall positioning against the puck.

It's not impossible of course but at the same time this would have been much easier to do at 20. He's also playing for what could well be the worst team in the NHL for years (alongside Detroit I guess). Probably not helping his motivation.

Again, I'm willing to believe that the team medics talked to the Front Office about the injured foot and that the rather negative outlook was part of the reason why Karlsson isn't with the Sens anymore.

his playoffs last year was unreal. He was magical, that was a year ago. He’s far from done, he’s still got some of the best NHL hockey in him out of anyone on the planet

 

[Sensung]

his playoffs last year was unreal. He was magical, that was a year ago. He’s far from done, he’s still got some of the best NHL hockey in him out of anyone on the planet

But that can't be true.

Our board guest has the ability to define current and future reality.

 

[Hinterland]

You are completely ignoring the long stretches of play EK has had post surgery in San Jose where he was back to his dominant self. If/when he puts a season of that focused level of play together, he'll be once again in the Norris discussion.

Played a few good games, yeah...but no long stretches and only alongside Dillon. His skating has always been much worse post injury compared to before.

 

[Sensung]

Played a few good games, yeah...but no long stretches and only alongside Dillon.

Post surgery EK put up 45 points in 53 games and was +6 in 18-19 after a slow start for a 70 point pace.

In the 26 games after his emotional return to Ottawa, EK put up 29 points (91 point pace) and was +17. He followed that up with 16 points in 19 games in the playoffs.

Peddle your fantasies elsewhere.

 

[Agent Zub]

He never was. He was half decent when paired with Dillon but that's about it.

And he's always playing injured. That won't change ever again because of his crippled foot. Just compare his skating to what it was a few years back. He's nowhere near and it's only gonna get worse.

He had a stretch where he had 25 points in 15 games and like a +17 before he got injured.

But yea I guess that's only half decent huh

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Like Sweatred stated above, Karlsson most likely still has good hockey left, however, I predict he will never again reach his form of 2016-2017.

My theory is that 11.5 M will make 90% of athletes soft. There are some that work their asses off till the end (eg. Crosby) but most lose their edge once they've hit the jackpot.

I think as Ottawa fans, we got to enjoy Karlsson's best years, and Dorion did well to trade him at the height of his value to get assets for the future.

 

[DueDiligence]

He is still young and in the early years of his 8 year deal. I agree that we will see a great player in stretches and we will also see injuries and nights where he is a -5.

Comfort, wives, retirement contracts, children, age, injuries are all working against him at this point.

EK will be 30 years old in May which is on the older side for a player nowadays. Add in the injury history and I highly doubt he ever regains the form he had in his Norris years.

 

[Sensung]

EK will be 30 years old in May which is on the older side for a player nowadays. Add in the injury history and I highly doubt he ever regains the form he had in his Norris years.

8 of the top 25 point getters in the NHL last year were 30 or over.

Elite players can maintain elite play well past this arbitrary benchmark.

 

[Sweatred]

EK will be 30 years old in May which is on the older side for a player nowadays. Add in the injury history and I highly doubt he ever regains the form he had in his Norris years.

Ne neither ... I was attempting to be realistic about the limited value he will provide from the $92 million.

the regression curve is decent for good athletes through 29-31.... I think EK will provide about half his contact value if he is lucky.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It was a free agent signing. Of course it will look bad in the back half, almost all UFA deals do.

 

[DueDiligence]

8 of the top 25 point getters in the NHL last year were 30 or over.

Elite players can maintain elite play well past this arbitrary benchmark.

In 2019-20 only 6 of 25 over the age of 30 and only 3 over the age of 31. And as I mentioned the injury history can negatively impact his play as well.

 

[Sensung]

In 2019-20 only 6 of 25 over the age of 30 and only 3 over the age of 31. And as I mentioned the injury history can negatively impact his play as well.

The criteria was 30 years old. Don't try and move the goalposts.

Elite players like Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Ovi and EK are still elite well into their 30's.