What if David Desharnais produces this year?

[G0bias]

I think everybody forgets the possibility that Eller could be traded (for a need that is).

I see what you did there

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Yeah so you think he will be traded before his contract is up. My point is that when you want to trade someone, you have to give this player ice time to showcase them and hope they are very productive. This means he will get playing time even if he is passed on the depth chart and even if he has no real place on the team. The team will suffer as a result. That's never a good situation. The contract should have never been that long.

I think you're reaching here. One hypothetical to another.

As far as I'm concerned with DD we have more depth. You don't HAVE to give extra ice time to showcase someone. I think you play him as usual and that's that.

DD is better than our 4th liners and better offensively than our 3rd liners. So end of the day, it doesn't hurt the team to play him. You made this assumption he would have no place on the team if galchenyuk is better. Maybe he can take galchenyuk's old spot?

On what world is removing a decent player in return for NOTHING(aka, kicking him out of the lineup) a good thing?

I'll have to counter your argument with simple common sense. Benching DD hurts the team, so regardless of him being surpassed on depth chart or not, it will not hurt to give him ice time. That statement is really really far fetched here. The ONLY factor is that once he's been surpassed in the lineup the question becomes "what will help us more, DD or the return we get for him?" If the 2nd wins, see ya! If not, we wait.

 

[MXD]

I see what you did there

Eller can certainly be traded to improve another spot in the lineup.

If fail to see why it's DD that's always moved in proposals by the people who consider DD to have bad value.

You have to give to receive. YES, DD is the redundant asset, but DD won't give us the guy we need (that is... think Ryan McDonald).

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

I think you're reaching here. One hypothetical to another.

As far as I'm concerned with DD we have more depth. You don't HAVE to give extra ice time to showcase someone. I think you play him as usual and that's that.

DD is better than our 4th liners and better offensively than our 3rd liners. So end of the day, it doesn't hurt the team to play him. You made this assumption he would have no place on the team if galchenyuk is better. Maybe he can take galchenyuk's old spot?

On what world is removing a decent player in return for NOTHING(aka, kicking him out of the lineup) a good thing?

I'll have to counter your argument with simple common sense. Benching DD hurts the team, so regardless of him being surpassed on depth chart or not, it will not hurt to give him ice time. That statement is really really far fetched here. The ONLY factor is that once he's been surpassed in the lineup the question becomes "what will help us more, DD or the return we get for him?" If the 2nd wins, see ya! If not, we wait.

I asked you a simple question and you didn't answer it directly. Where would Desharnais play when Galchecnyuk surpasses him? According to GDT, Galchenyuk is playing on Eller's wing right now. Are you suggesting that we put Desharnais on the wing?

Where did I suggest remove him for nothing? I'm saying trade him for as much as you can get for him asap. Unfortunately even when Galchenyuk is better than him, we will have to play Desharnais in the same spot that he is now so that he can be tradable. I'm also saying that it's stupid that we would have to do that and the contract was too long to begin with.

Where am I reaching? The only hypothetical I stated here is that Galchenyuk surpasses Desharnais which is not only plausible, it's expected.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I asked you a simple question and you didn't answer it directly. Where would Desharnais play when Galchecnyuk surpasses him? According to GDT, Galchenyuk is playing on Eller's wing right now. Are you suggesting that we put Desharnais on the wing?

Where did I suggest remove him for nothing? I'm saying trade him for as much as you can get for him asap. Unfortunately even when Galchenyuk is better than him, we will have to play Desharnais in the same spot that he is now so that he can be tradable. I'm also saying that it's stupid that we would have to do that and the contract was too long to begin with.

Where am I reaching? The only hypothetical I stated here is that Galchenyuk surpasses Desharnais which is not only plausible, it's expected.

I did answer it. I said he can take galchenyuk's spot on another line. Considering he's better than Eller on faceoffs anyway, they can swap or DD can play wing. I don't care really. Show me DD's bad wing experience. You won't find it(little sample) so don't

Trade him asap. Regardless of return? Why trade him? As of now he's worth more to us than his return and you know it. DD was tradeable when he was on 3rd line playing with darche. At 3.5 mil and 40-60 point seasons, don't you worry, we can trade him.

You reached by saying it would make the team bad. Trading someone asap for no reason makes team bad.

 

[Markowicz]

I don't think there is any rush to trade any center at the moment. Both Eller and Galchenyuk are not ready to take on full time roles as the top two centers on the team, so it is actually good that we still have Desharnais. It would be a mistake if we traded Desharnais now, unless the plan was to miss the playoffs this year and get a better a draft pick.

I think that Bergevin's thinking when he signed DD to the deal was that Desharnais would give him 50-60 points a year as a scoring line centre, and that if he felt like he was becoming superfluous, he would be a very tradeable commodity at 3.5m a year.

DD is basically the bridge to Galchenyuk taking over as the #1 scoring line center. Imo, the longer DD plays well for the Canadiens, the better it will be for the team and the development of Galchenyuk.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

I did answer it. I said he can take galchenyuk's spot on another line. Considering he's better than Eller on faceoffs anyway, they can swap or DD can play wing. I don't care really. Show me DD's bad wing experience. You won't find it(little sample) so don't

Trade him asap. Regardless of return? Why trade him? As of now he's worth more to us than his return and you know it. DD was tradeable when he was on 3rd line playing with darche. At 3.5 mil and 40-60 point seasons, don't you worry, we can trade him.

You reached by saying it would make the team bad. Trading someone asap for no reason makes team bad.

Ok so you either want DD to play wing or you want Eller to play wing instead of Desharnais. Whatever happened to this 'never being and Eller vs DD' thing. The reason why I disagreed with it never being an Eller vs Desharnais thing is because once Galchenyuk surpasses Desharnais, it becomes an Eller vs Desharnais thing. Do you see the Eller vs DD thing now?

In terms of DD's wing skills, neither of us have proof that DD can or can't play wing at the NHL level. I'm just going to assume that he will get pushed around even more than he already does and lose a lot of puck battles along the boards. He won't even be able to maximize the use of his primary skill as much, playmaking. DD on the wing will not go well for him and he will end up a healthy scratch or worse he will be 'showcased' for trade bait at the expense of the team.

Playing Desharnais after he gets surpassed by Galchenyuk would make the team worse. I don't know how you think that's reaching. When a worse player is given playing time instead of a better one, do you think that makes the team better or worse?

I never said 'Regardless of return'? Why do you put words into my mouth. Like I said, trade him asap for the best deal you can get for him. Obviously if someone offers a third rounder, I wouldn't take it but we should have a trade him asap approach.I feel like his stock, even if he produces this year, will not get much better than it is now. However, if he doesn't produce, he will have gone the first two years of his four year contract without producing. No team in the NHL would want that and his stock would plummet. Trade him now while he still has value.

 

[MXD]

I never said 'Regardless of return'? Why do you put words into my mouth. Like I said, trade him asap for the best deal you can get for him. Obviously if someone offers a third rounder, I wouldn't take it but we should have a trade him asap approach.I feel like his stock, even if he produces this year, will not get much better than it is now. However, if he doesn't produce, he will have gone the first two years of his four year contract without producing. No team in the NHL would want that and his stock would plummet. Trade him now while he still has value.

... ??????

 

[Natey]

... ??????

hahahahahahahah - my thoughts exactly, bro

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

... ??????

....???????

 

[MXD]

....???????

Okay, so you're telling me you really believe 0 + 1 = 2...

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

hahahahahahahah - my thoughts exactly, bro

Thanks for laughing. Words please? Did you disagree with my statement? Did you find it confusing?

 

[MXD]

Thanks for laughing. Words please? Did you disagree with my statement? Did you find it confusing?

More like non-sensical.

 

[macavoy]

I asked you a simple question and you didn't answer it directly. Where would Desharnais play when Galchecnyuk surpasses him?

Where am I reaching? The only hypothetical I stated here is that Galchenyuk surpasses Desharnais which is not only plausible, it's expected.

If you are focussing on DD's shortcomings when Galchenyuk is our bonafide #1 center, then lol you. I don't give a rats ass about DD. Galchenyuk is our future, when he
Claims the #1 center position, it doesn't matter jack **** what DD is doing.


Hating on dd is equivalent to what bullies do, pick on the weak to make up for their own short comings.

Who cares if DD sucks, I know Roy brought us cups in 86 and 93, Galchenyuk will bring us cups in 16 and 2023 or something. Who cares what a the small Koivu's or DD's never brought us.

 

[Milhouse40]

Eller can certainly be traded to improve another spot in the lineup.

If fail to see why it's DD that's always moved in proposals by the people who consider DD to have bad value.

You have to give to receive. YES, DD is the redundant asset, but DD won't give us the guy we need (that is... think Ryan McDonald).

Yeah, let's trade one of our only big forward who can throw his body around with a decent contract (for now at least)....and let's spend the next decade crying "we need bigger guy" one more time!!!

Those are the kind of player that are hard to find.

If Eller has better value than DD on the market...it's because this is the kind of player teams are looking for...more that DD.

I don't think there is any rush to trade any center at the moment. Both Eller and Galchenyuk are not ready to take on full time roles as the top two centers on the team, so it is actually good that we still have Desharnais. It would be a mistake if we traded Desharnais now, unless the plan was to miss the playoffs this year and get a better a draft pick.

I think that Bergevin's thinking when he signed DD to the deal was that Desharnais would give him 50-60 points a year as a scoring line centre, and that if he felt like he was becoming superfluous, he would be a very tradeable commodity at 3.5m a year.

DD is basically the bridge to Galchenyuk taking over as the #1 scoring line center. Imo, the longer DD plays well for the Canadiens, the better it will be for the team and the development of Galchenyuk.

We don't know if Eller is ready to take that role?
Unless we try, we will never know!

DD took that role after 50 games in the NHL at 25 years old
After putting 22 points (8 on the PP) in 43 games.

Eller has now played 209 games in the NHL and is 24.
And he just made 30 points (5 on the PP) in 46 games.

So why Eller wouldn't be ready?

Back then.....what made Desharnais "ready" for that job?
And when given the job...DD wasn't on fire.
Only put up 5 points in 15 games in the beginning of 2010-2011

Gomez sucked, We tried DD, and it worked better.
Now , last year DD sucked, let's try Eller, and it might work better.

I would like to see if it can work better!

Having said that.....

As soon as Galchenyuk is ready, he's taking that spot no matter what.
As for DD being a bridge player....there's also Briere that can be a candidate for that spot....nice chemistry with Pac!!

If DD produce well in the first 20-25 games of the season....no need to make a trade.
But if he still can't find his game, that's an whole different story.

 

[MXD]

Yeah, let's trade one of our only big forward who can throw his body around with a decent contract (for now at least)....and let's spend the next decade crying "we need bigger guy" one more time!!!

Those are the kind of player that are hard to find.

If Eller has better value than DD on the market...it's because this kindis the of player that can help a team more than DD.

I wouldn't trade him, but MB could.

I'm just putting up a possibility that is never brought up for whatever reason. Like, MB wants somebody, the other GM asks for Eller... Boom, Eller gone. Quite possible really, and the same can be said for about 19 other guys in that lineup (including DD, obviously) and, come to think of it, Subban and Galchenyuk are probably the only ones immune at the moment.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

Okay, so you're telling me you really believe 0 + 1 = 2...

Thanks for putting into light for me how bad David Desharnais' contract really is. His contract actually starts this year. That's even worse.


Allow me to correct my statement so you it makes sense to you now

I feel like his stock, even if he produces this year, will not get much better than it is now. However, if he doesn't produce at the level he is paid to this year it would be really bad for his value. Not only would have played badly in the season in which he signed his contract extension, he would also played a full year of his contract without producing while still having 3 years remaining. Who would want to take on the remaining three year contract then?


I hope it makes sense now.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Ok so you either want DD to play wing or you want Eller to play wing instead of Desharnais. Whatever happened to this 'never being and Eller vs DD' thing. The reason why I disagreed with it never being an Eller vs Desharnais thing is because once Galchenyuk surpasses Desharnais, it becomes an Eller vs Desharnais thing. Do you see the Eller vs DD thing now?

Uhh yes, that's why I said you start looking at returns at that point. I said you evaluate him vs the return.

In terms of DD's wing skills, neither of us have proof that DD can or can't play wing at the NHL level. I'm just going to assume that he will get pushed around even more than he already does and lose a lot of puck battles along the boards. He won't even be able to maximize the use of his primary skill as much, playmaking. DD on the wing will not go well for him and he will end up a healthy scratch or worse he will be 'showcased' for trade bait at the expense of the team.

DD already gets pushed around a bit. Oddly enough, he is still relatively healthy and gets back up after every hit. The reason for him getting pushed around is he isn't a perimeter player. He plays a role intended for bigger guys and gets a beating from it. If he played a perimeter game and didn't get him, would you be happier? It is what it is.

Playing Desharnais after he gets surpassed by Galchenyuk would make the team worse. I don't know how you think that's reaching. When a worse player is given playing time instead of a better one, do you think that makes the team better or worse?

Oh, so right now DD is playing and Galchenyuk is in press box? No? But if galchenyuk improves(not because DD regresses) suddenly DD can't play any single line anymore? Fantastic. Not even reduced minutes. That's not a reach at all. Any minute he plays after galchenyuk improves will hurt the team. Every second counts!

OR we could try him in a reduce role until we trade him for a need or want that makes us better now or in the future?

Maybe you misunderstood but Galchenyuk can play 25 min a game, doesn't mean DD can't help the team playing less. He's still NHL caliber...

I never said 'Regardless of return'? Why do you put words into my mouth. Like I said, trade him asap for the best deal you can get for him. Obviously if someone offers a third rounder, I wouldn't take it but we should have a trade him asap approach.I feel like his stock, even if he produces this year, will not get much better than it is now. However, if he doesn't produce, he will have gone the first two years of his four year contract without producing. No team in the NHL would want that and his stock would plummet. Trade him now while he still has value.

Who cares what his stock is now? I mean, someone offers you a 2nd round pick. Will the 2nd round pick make 40-60 points...now? maybe not even in the future.

And no, he hasn't started his extension, so 1 year and why wouldn't he produce. Contrary to popular belief DD's ESP were at a fairly similar rate last year. It was his PP production that slipped. You can always try other guys on PP. No one is opposed to that. Guy still makes points 5 on 5 though. Teams who don't get 3298023109 PPs like us prefer that anyway.

 

[Milhouse40]

I wouldn't trade him, but MB could.

I'm just putting up a possibility that is never brought up for whatever reason. Like, MB wants somebody, the other GM asks for Eller... Boom, Eller gone. Quite possible really, and the same can be said for about 19 other guys in that lineup (including DD, obviously) and, come to think of it, Subban and Galchenyuk are probably the only ones immune at the moment.

From that point of view.....i have to agree.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

If you are focussing on DD's shortcomings when Galchenyuk is our bonafide #1 center, then lol you. I don't give a rats ass about DD. Galchenyuk is our future, when he
Claims the #1 center position, it doesn't matter jack **** what DD is doing.


Hating on dd is equivalent to what bullies do, pick on the weak to make up for their own short comings.

Who cares if DD sucks, I know Roy brought us cups in 86 and 93, Galchenyuk will bring us cups in 16 and 2023 or something. Who cares what a the small Koivu's or DD's never brought us.

Obviously you don't care about how DD affects this team but thanks for your contribution

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Thanks for putting into light for me how bad David Desharnais' contract really is. His contract actually starts this year. That's even worse.


Allow me to correct my statement so you it makes sense to you now

I feel like his stock, even if he produces this year, will not get much better than it is now. However, if he doesn't produce at the level he is paid to this year it would be really bad for his value. Not only would have played badly in the season in which he signed his contract extension, he would also played a full year of his contract without producing while still having 3 years remaining. Who would want to take on the remaining three year contract then?


I hope it makes sense now.

He's paid 3.5 mil. If the guy hits 40 points he earns his contract practically.

I feel like Carey Price's stock, even if he plays well this year, will not get much better than it is now. However, if he doesn't play at the level he is paid to this year it would be really bad for his value. Not only would have played badly in the season in which he signed his contract extension, he would also played 2 full years of his contract without playing well while still having 4 years remaining. Who would want to take on the remaining four year contract then?

...and same with other players. It's 3.5 mil. Really, 3.5 mil. If the guy matches his worst NHL output ever he's still not buyout candidate and merely 'average' for the pay. Any better and the contract gets better as well.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Yeah, let's trade one of our only big forward who can throw his body around with a decent contract (for now at least)....and let's spend the next decade crying "we need bigger guy" one more time!!!

Those are the kind of player that are hard to find.

If Eller has better value than DD on the market...it's because this is the kind of player teams are looking for...more that DD.





We don't know if Eller is ready to take that role?
Unless we try, we will never know!

DD took that role after 50 games in the NHL at 25 years old
After putting 22 points (8 on the PP) in 43 games.

Eller has now played 209 games in the NHL and is 24.
And he just made 30 points (5 on the PP) in 46 games.

So why Eller wouldn't be ready?

Back then.....what made Desharnais "ready" for that job?
And when given the job...DD wasn't on fire.
Only put up 5 points in 15 games in the beginning of 2010-2011

Gomez sucked, We tried DD, and it worked better.
Now , last year DD sucked, let's try Eller, and it might work better.

I would like to see if it can work better!

Having said that.....

As soon as Galchenyuk is ready, he's taking that spot no matter what.
As for DD being a bridge player....there's also Briere that can be a candidate for that spot....nice chemistry with Pac!!

If DD produce well in the first 20-25 games of the season....no need to make a trade.
But if he still can't find his game, that's an whole different story.

I usually disagree with what you say regarding DD but nothing wrong here. Sometimes you gotta switch up lines and try different guys. It wouldn't hurt to try Eller on PP. Only fair. Also agree that no need to make a trade if it's working out. If it isn't, then obviously you look at how you can improve the team.

I'm skeptical about Eller(I don't feel half a season is a real season) but he deserves PP time for a sake of change regardless. DD can produce 5 on 5 so it's not his ONLY way to make points. Eller can try and so can others.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

Uhh yes, that's why I said you start looking at returns at that point. I said you evaluate him vs the return.

How about we properly manage our assets and trade him before that 'showcasing' period happens?

DD already gets pushed around a bit. Oddly enough, he is still relatively healthy and gets back up after every hit. The reason for him getting pushed around is he isn't a perimeter player. He plays a role intended for bigger guys and gets a beating from it. If he played a perimeter game and didn't get him, would you be happier? It is what it is.

I don't care if he gets pushed around. I've never dissed Koivu when he was our captain even though he would get outmuscled by Sundin every time. Koivu was still effective though. I would have never wanted to see a guy like Koivu on the wings though. It wouldn't make sense. I don't want to see Desharnais on this wing either.

Oh, so right now DD is playing and Galchenyuk is in press box? No? But if galchenyuk improves(not because DD regresses) suddenly DD can't play any single line anymore? Fantastic. Not even reduced minutes. That's not a reach at all. Any minute he plays after galchenyuk improves will hurt the team. Every second counts!

OR we could try him in a reduce role until we trade him for a need or want that makes us better now or in the future?

Maybe you misunderstood but Galchenyuk can play 25 min a game, doesn't mean DD can't help the team playing less. He's still NHL caliber...

Yes this is exactly my point when I asked you where does Desharnais play when Galchenyuk surpasses him? My point is that once he gets surpassed by Galchenyuk, there is no place for him on the team. In my opinion he can't play wings. He's not defensive enough for the third or fourth lines. That only leaves 1st line or 2nd line center which would be Galchenyuk and Plekanec.
Every minute that he plays would take away minutes from Galchenyuk or Plekanec or at least take away Galchenyuk or Eller's natural position at centre.

Who cares what his stock is now? I mean, someone offers you a 2nd round pick. Will the 2nd round pick make 40-60 points...now? maybe not even in the future.

Asset management is good. We have Bournival now because of good asset management in the past. When it comes to trading for draft picks/prospects, sometimes they pan out and sometimes they don't. But it's still worth trading for them for the times that they do.

And no, he hasn't started his extension, so 1 year and why wouldn't he produce. Contrary to popular belief DD's ESP were at a fairly similar rate last year. It was his PP production that slipped. You can always try other guys on PP. No one is opposed to that. Guy still makes points 5 on 5 though. Teams who don't get 3298023109 PPs like us prefer that anyway.

He's paid 3.5 mil. If the guy hits 40 points he earns his contract practically.

I feel like Carey Price's stock, even if he plays well this year, will not get much better than it is now. However, if he doesn't play at the level he is paid to this year it would be really bad for his value. Not only would have played badly in the season in which he signed his contract extension, he would also played 2 full years of his contract without playing well while still having 4 years remaining. Who would want to take on the remaining four year contract then?

...and same with other players. It's 3.5 mil. Really, 3.5 mil. If the guy matches his worst NHL output ever he's still not buyout candidate and merely 'average' for the pay. Any better and the contract gets better as well.

I'm actually really worried that Price may not become the elite goalie we had all envisioned. I'm not just saying that to prove my point. If Carey Price doesn't perform well this year, his stock will decrease in my eyes and I assume other teams eyes.

In any case, it doesn't take away from the fact that it would be bad for his stock if Desharnais didn't produce this year. We should trade him now so we can avoid this jam at the top two line center spots, get a draft pick, potentially save 3.5 million in cap space depending on the return and live happily ever after.

 

[25get]

...

Gomez sucked, We tried DD, and it worked better.
Now , last year DD sucked, let's try Eller, and it might work better.
...

You are comparing Gomez and Desharnais.

Gomez did 11 points in 2011-12.
We can all agree that Desharnais had a bad season with a pace of 50 points.
Would be OK to get this at 3.5M but he did it at 850K.

Let's see what you get for 3.5M:
Ryder just signed for 3.5M. Upshall did 34 points for the same.
Turris best season is 29 points. Cullen peaked at 48 points for 3.5.
Koivu is now down to 38 points. Stajan best was 31 points in the last three season.

Some think that Desharnais is preventing Eller and Galchenyuk to get a spot on the top-6.
It is not the case, Eller and Galchenyuk have to show that they can get his spot.
Therrien wants to win. Once it is clear that others players are ahead of DD, he will give them ice time.

The last thing I want to see is to remove DD and give the ice time to our young players.
They need to fight for it and win it.
Last season, we saw it Galchenyuk and Gallagher pushing other players out of the line-up: gone are Armstrong and Halpern.
This season we have Tinordi and Bournival pushing Bouillon and White/Dumont.

It is possible to see Eller and/or Galchenyuk push Desharnais from top-3 and top PP unit.
But we are not there yet.
For now, best d-men are playing against Desharnais, not Eller.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Allow me to correct my statement so you it makes sense to you now

I feel like his stock, even if he produces this year, will not get much better than it is now.


I hope it makes sense now.

The reason why people were going "???†is because of the above. Basically you are saying, whether intentional or not, that no matter how well DD does, his stock level is the same as when he had a bad year. Eg. He gets miraculously 82 points this year... But his stock level doesn't change. Even if he gets 100... still the same...
Makes sense? Of course not. The only way his stock doesn't rise is if he doesn't improve much.