Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
Not a fact. He played the entire season last year, too. More importantly to your point though, I believe, is that he wasn't even on pace for 60 points had he played 80+ games.
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Not a fact. He played the entire season last year, too. More importantly to your point though, I believe, is that he wasn't even on pace for 60 points had he played 80+ games.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
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He had a 48 point per 82 game pace.
10 goals, 18 assists, in 48 games.
He actually regressed in his third season, from a not-spectacular second season.
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Ginu
Registered User
I'll be honest. I don't like DD at all. From the moment he joined, I've been wanting to get him out of here. He's small, doesn't play a 2-way game and is exactly the opposite of what we need. But I do agree with the argument that we currently aren't contenders and so we work with what we got. Heck, he's already 27 or 28, he surely won't be here after his current contract expires. And yes, he is taking Galchenyuk's spot at center but until the coaches feel he's ready to play center, I don't really have a problem with Desharnais there. However, the second Chucky's ready, I'd like Desharnais gone.
Whoever subscribes to the opinion that we work with what we have now, I agree with you. But those praising him because he's a 60 point player and those points are hard to replace, don't be under any illusion that we'll ever actually be a contender with him at center.
Toews, Malkin, Crosby, Krejci, Bergeron, Spezza, Datsyuk, Zetterberg (do I have to go on?) will all eat him alive. Those are guys who go deep in the playoffs and / or win Cups. There is zero comparison. So forget contending for a Cup while he's there. Work with what we have now, but they second we're contending, peace out.
Whoever subscribes to the opinion that we work with what we have now, I agree with you. But those praising him because he's a 60 point player and those points are hard to replace, don't be under any illusion that we'll ever actually be a contender with him at center.
Toews, Malkin, Crosby, Krejci, Bergeron, Spezza, Datsyuk, Zetterberg (do I have to go on?) will all eat him alive. Those are guys who go deep in the playoffs and / or win Cups. There is zero comparison. So forget contending for a Cup while he's there. Work with what we have now, but they second we're contending, peace out.
anonymous9739872329
Registered User
What if David Desharnais produces this year? If David Desharnais produces this year, people will re-adjust their opinion of him accordingly, based on how much he produces. In other words, throughout the year, based on the new data, people will judge how useful of an asset he is and re-assess how much bashing he deserves. The Community will then post a huge amount of positive or negative feedback toward DD in different threads as all the GDTs, PDTs and other monthly threads like "Should we trade DD", "OMG DD SUCKS LOL" and so on.
After this constant recalibration of hatred or newfound love throughout the season, and after a few weeks of our early elimination and when the boards start to become pretty boring, the HF Habs high council of trolls will gather. At that time, they will focalize their opinions in one powerful voice. When this decision is made, the troll council will elect a few chosen ones to constantly bash or praise DD under different pseudonyms until the HF community ends up all thinking the same thing since everyone seems to share that opinion. From a guy who was once behind the scenes of that great dark scheme, I can tell you this is how it's done around here since we acquired Mariusz Czerkawski.
After this constant recalibration of hatred or newfound love throughout the season, and after a few weeks of our early elimination and when the boards start to become pretty boring, the HF Habs high council of trolls will gather. At that time, they will focalize their opinions in one powerful voice. When this decision is made, the troll council will elect a few chosen ones to constantly bash or praise DD under different pseudonyms until the HF community ends up all thinking the same thing since everyone seems to share that opinion. From a guy who was once behind the scenes of that great dark scheme, I can tell you this is how it's done around here since we acquired Mariusz Czerkawski.
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Mario le Magnifique
Habs apologist, closet Pens fan
People need to chill out on DD as much as they had to do with Price.
DD is a non-drafted who happened to be able to play in the NHL on a non-defensive third line, and is doing exactly what he's been brought for.
Not his fault if management can't find the pure #1 center for a contending team. If Max Pacioretty was playing with a much better player we'd be ecstatic, but that isn't the case, cut DD some slack, he's good enough for a third line that picks his spots but the Habs are NOT a contending team, and it's definitely not DD's fault.
Get rid of him for what ? Habs have no youngsters down the middle in the farm. Martin Reway ? Are you kidding me ?
Ask Max Pacioretty how he sees DD. DD is a small guy that had to give it ALL to make it. And they developped a chemistry, Max Pac would probably have a lot more points with better linemates, but is it DD's fault that he plays with the best Habs winger ?
In the end, if management decides to trade him it will be for another third liner and the Habs won't really make a step forward.
I know people, myself included, have asked for more toughness, but I'd rather have a smaller guy who has chemistry with one of our best player, than some no name or draft pick. For this season.
I wish that the Habs put Galchenyuk centering Pacioretty on a sheltered line if DD gets hurt or gets on a cold streak.
DD is a non-drafted who happened to be able to play in the NHL on a non-defensive third line, and is doing exactly what he's been brought for.
Not his fault if management can't find the pure #1 center for a contending team. If Max Pacioretty was playing with a much better player we'd be ecstatic, but that isn't the case, cut DD some slack, he's good enough for a third line that picks his spots but the Habs are NOT a contending team, and it's definitely not DD's fault.
Get rid of him for what ? Habs have no youngsters down the middle in the farm. Martin Reway ? Are you kidding me ?
Ask Max Pacioretty how he sees DD. DD is a small guy that had to give it ALL to make it. And they developped a chemistry, Max Pac would probably have a lot more points with better linemates, but is it DD's fault that he plays with the best Habs winger ?
In the end, if management decides to trade him it will be for another third liner and the Habs won't really make a step forward.
I know people, myself included, have asked for more toughness, but I'd rather have a smaller guy who has chemistry with one of our best player, than some no name or draft pick. For this season.
I wish that the Habs put Galchenyuk centering Pacioretty on a sheltered line if DD gets hurt or gets on a cold streak.
First, I like what I see from DD in this pre-season.
Second, if he gets 40 points, it is a little bit low for 3.5M but there are many players who has an average of 40 points who get that kind of money. With 50 points, we are paying a good price for the production.
At 60 points, we have a deal at 3.5M.
Third, I do trust our coaching staff to give ice time based on production. As every coach in the league, MT will favor the veterans to a recruit. At the same time, we saw that Galchenyuk, Gallagher last year and Tinordi and Bournival this year are being tried and give chances to earn their spot. We all want Galchenyuk to be a first line center but he is not there yet. Their plan is clear and they are moing toward it.
Fourth, for the last two seasons, we paid 850K for Desharnais. Find me one team in the league who paid that price for a first line center (1b if you prefer). Even at 3.5M for a second line center is a good deal.
Fifth, we all think that Eller should eventually pass Desharnais. At 24, Desharnais scored 22 points in 43 games and at the same age, Lars did 30 points in 46 games. Desharnais exploded the following year because he was finally given two top-6 wingers and Gomez place was taken. I do expect Eller to improve but I do not expect David to follow Gomez path.
Sixth, fact is that we have many centers. We should not complain about that. If one or two of our top centers is injured (Plekanec and Eller), we still have Desharnais, Brière and Galchenyuk to center our top-9. Depth is good and it is easier to move a center to the wings than the reverse.
Seventh but not least. Can't we wait and see what happens. This is a long season. We were 5th in PP time last season so we must do something right (Markov and Subban). If our PP falls below 18% you will see changes. In the mean time, some PP time was given to Eller and Galchenyuk last season and they failed to even keep the puck in offensive zone. I remember this vividly because I was hoping them to get some PP time. So it is going to take more time. I do expect them to get more PP time especially when we are ahead. Looking at this, you have to admit that Plekanec-Gionta and MaxPac-DD are our best for PP. I do admit that this PP TOI was given to EGG line in the last four games of the season. But I do expect them to get more PP TOI this season.
To conclude: There was many experiment during the pre-season and the coaching staff did a pretty good job at trying everyone during every phase of the game. I remember Nystrom and Bournival in PK but also Desharnais, Galchenyuk, Gallagher and even Pacioretty. I do have confidence in our coaching staff. For now, DD is part of a pretty good PP unit and EGG needs to earn their time on PP.
My hopes are to see EGG line be lethal in PP, Plek line be great in PK.
But my expectations are to see DD line dominate the PP next season and EGG line get more PK and PP.
Second, if he gets 40 points, it is a little bit low for 3.5M but there are many players who has an average of 40 points who get that kind of money. With 50 points, we are paying a good price for the production.
At 60 points, we have a deal at 3.5M.
Third, I do trust our coaching staff to give ice time based on production. As every coach in the league, MT will favor the veterans to a recruit. At the same time, we saw that Galchenyuk, Gallagher last year and Tinordi and Bournival this year are being tried and give chances to earn their spot. We all want Galchenyuk to be a first line center but he is not there yet. Their plan is clear and they are moing toward it.
Fourth, for the last two seasons, we paid 850K for Desharnais. Find me one team in the league who paid that price for a first line center (1b if you prefer). Even at 3.5M for a second line center is a good deal.
Fifth, we all think that Eller should eventually pass Desharnais. At 24, Desharnais scored 22 points in 43 games and at the same age, Lars did 30 points in 46 games. Desharnais exploded the following year because he was finally given two top-6 wingers and Gomez place was taken. I do expect Eller to improve but I do not expect David to follow Gomez path.
Sixth, fact is that we have many centers. We should not complain about that. If one or two of our top centers is injured (Plekanec and Eller), we still have Desharnais, Brière and Galchenyuk to center our top-9. Depth is good and it is easier to move a center to the wings than the reverse.
Seventh but not least. Can't we wait and see what happens. This is a long season. We were 5th in PP time last season so we must do something right (Markov and Subban). If our PP falls below 18% you will see changes. In the mean time, some PP time was given to Eller and Galchenyuk last season and they failed to even keep the puck in offensive zone. I remember this vividly because I was hoping them to get some PP time. So it is going to take more time. I do expect them to get more PP time especially when we are ahead. Looking at this, you have to admit that Plekanec-Gionta and MaxPac-DD are our best for PP. I do admit that this PP TOI was given to EGG line in the last four games of the season. But I do expect them to get more PP TOI this season.
To conclude: There was many experiment during the pre-season and the coaching staff did a pretty good job at trying everyone during every phase of the game. I remember Nystrom and Bournival in PK but also Desharnais, Galchenyuk, Gallagher and even Pacioretty. I do have confidence in our coaching staff. For now, DD is part of a pretty good PP unit and EGG needs to earn their time on PP.
My hopes are to see EGG line be lethal in PP, Plek line be great in PK.
But my expectations are to see DD line dominate the PP next season and EGG line get more PK and PP.
Uh... no. Eller was the top producing forward on the PP last season per minute. T1 in points/60min and t5 in goals/60min. Some vivid memory
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+17+18+19+20#
NHLFutureGuy3
Registered User
- Aug 22, 2008
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DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
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Let's not get too excited with respect to Bournival. He had a good pre-season, but he's still raw and could still end up needing a lot more time in Hamilton.
But they do have a 19 year old projected to be top line centre, a 24 year old projected to be top six centre and a 30 year old proven top six centre with three more years on his contract in the actual team....
Let's start by saying I agree with you, we need Chucky and Eller well developped to be considered contenders. But do you think Krejci is a defensive master piece? Far from it IMO. He is a center on the 1a/1b team that's been impressive lately. I'm not comparing DD offensive talent to Krejci's. But give him a Lucic and a Horton to see how he'll fare in the playoffs. A team with DD can be pretty good in the playoffs, given the fact that the team isn't based around him.
Teams win with scrubs. You can win with a DD no problem. They just need to be used to their strengths. Same with a defensive center, why would you put him on the PP? Same concept.
So I agree with you and you don't even have to put linemates to it.
Yeah, I would say Handzus wasn't close to be a good 2nd centerman in the NHL but the Hawks won with him slotted there...
Anyway, I've doubted DD since he came in the league but I have a good feeling about him proving wrong to many people.
Ship him. We keep Plecky, that's for sure. AND we have to eventually move Galchenyuk to the center. Our first 3 centers next year should be : Pleckanek, Galchenyuk (who can be switched with Brière if injury happens), Eller (who can replace in the role of second center if need be). I like Desharnais, but I think he'll be a trade bait at the trade deadline.
1st, I also like what I see from DD in this pre-season, but that is comparing him to last year. MaxPac seems to be bringing his game up a level yet again, I really feel he'll reach the 1ppg+ mark, and DD will benefit from it. However, I hate the complacency of our coaching staff in keeping the same lines as last year. They keep talking about players earning opportunities, well, I certainly thought that Lars Eller would have earned himself a shot at having new linemates and a top 6 role. But that wasn't the case.
2nd, The guys you talk off that also make 3.5M and produce around 40sih points are not playing with the best winger, getting the easier match ups while being sheltered and getting around 3min of PP per game.
Playing next to MaxPac and being used as he is, I expect no less than 60ish pts. I don't care how much his cap hit is in relation to his production. Marian Hossa has a cap hit around 5M, so does Duncan Keith. Irrelevant.
DD has everything in his corner to make him succeed. He needs to produce otherwise it's a big disappointment.
3rd, I'm not as convinced as you are. The lines should be different if MT was serious about this.
4th, were we supposed to give him millions after 40ish games of experience in the NHL?..I don't get your point. He had very little experience, was a prospect, so we paid him prospect money. You want to go through the list of all the kids that perform well on their ELC?
And the point isn't so much that he'll make 3.5M, but it's that we shouldn't have extended him so early. We could have had him for cheaper, to a shorter term, and we could have also assessed the possibility of letting him go in order to make room for Eller.
5th, Lars Eller skipped over DD last season, yet wasn't rewarded for it. Galchenyuk and Gallagher both had almost double and triple the amount of PP ice time Eller got. Heck, Erik Cole played more on the PP than Lars Eller despite only being here for 19 games. Actually, he had more points than all of them on the PP. He was our 3rd best scorer overall, and most productive one on the PP in terms of Pts/min.
6th, yes we have many centers, which isn't a problem, but it makes DD a lot more expendable. Not to mention, we can't have that many short players in the top 6. Briere, Plek, Gio, DD. I think they're all good players, but we should only have one of those guys on each line, not two.
7th, as mentioned before, you're wrong. Eller was our most efficient scorer on the PP. Give him another efficient guy there and they'll likely form our best duo. He should have received more PP time last year. That was already a mistake. Let's not do the same one again. What we should have done is move DD to the wing and not sign Briere. Bring Eller up to 2nd line, and keep the Prust-Gally-Galla trio together or sign a depth guy like Morrow. I would have preferred to see that.
There is no reason to keep the same lines for the PP. You can mix it up. But in the event that you want to retain the same trios, how does one earn PP time?? Is it by being the most efficient scoring line the Habs have? Because that's what the EGG line was last year. DD, him, was the 7th forward in terms of PP efficiency yet he was 3 minutes short of being used the most there.
In reality, if you truly want to be fair, DD should be the one that needs to earn back his spot.
Prendan Brust
Registered User
It would be the best thing that could happen as it would raise his value and give us a nice trafe bait to work on another weakness.
NHLFutureGuy3
Registered User
- Aug 22, 2008
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I'm actually not over excited with Bournival. I know as well as most that it's very rare for someone to stay permanently with the big club once they've gotten their first shot. What was good for players like Max Pac was being called up and sent down a couple of times so that each time it gave him realistic picture of how much he had to improve before he was a regular. Bournival needs that chance too. I'm arguing that with Desharnais in there, Bournival won't get that chance. This is why I am saying that with Bournival in the picture, Desharnais is even more disposable than he was before. Not only is he small, bad defensively, etc, he will now get in the way of the development of a young player.
- Jun 24, 2012
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I don't get the Brière signing either. I thought we were getting away from last year's business model.
Bournival isn't meant to be a top 6 center or an offensive one. So DD isn't in his way.
Simply put:
Plekanec-Irreplaceable right now.
Desharnais vs Galchenyuk
Eller vs checking line centers/young players.
Eller vs DD isn't real. Neither is DD vs Bournival or anyone else. It is and has always been DD for Galchenyuk, no one else.
NHLFutureGuy3
Registered User
- Aug 22, 2008
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So if Galchenyuk ends up clearly a better center than Desharnais before this year is over, where does Desharnais play?
1st line offensive role:Galchenyuk
2nd line offensive/defensive: Plekanec
3rd line defensive/offensive: Eller/Bournival
4th line defensive: Bournival/White
Mario le Magnifique
Habs apologist, closet Pens fan
IMO, it's much more Gally vs our 1st line center, Plekanec. Ideally, our first line center can play both offense and defense. ATM, none of our centers can do it. Hopefully, Galchenyuk becomes a 1st line center, and won't be competing with DD's spot because DD is at most a third liner in the NHL.
in a couple of years, you would have Galchenyuk on a 2-way dominant first line, then Plekanec on a 2-way dominant 2nd line, then DD or Eller on an insulated offensive third line, and then a Bournival on a responsible defensive 4rth line w/ toughness. The real matchup is DD vs Eller as far as the Habs future is concerned.
When DD first arrived with the Habs, he barely got any PP time yet still put up points with the likes of Darche / Moen, because if matched up against other third or fourth lines he can outplay them offensively. The fact that he plays with Pac right now dosen't mean DD is a 1st line center. Plekanec isn't good enough to be dominant on both sides, Eller isn't good enough, DD isn't good enough. I think MT is getting the best he can get from his players, in the way that he distributes the offense and defense mix and matching players in the roster.
So ideally both Gally and Plek would get PP time and DD / Eller would have to produce at even strenght against the other team's bottom six, he already did this in the past, and it's his best suited role on a good NHL team.
IMO, saying Galchenyuk vs DD is not realising that DD ISN'T OUR FIRST LINE CENTER. Unless your expectations for Gally are quite low, and that you peg him on our third line.
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That's the point. When Galchenyuk is superior and we have a winger/center who surpasses DD's ability, he SHOULD be moved. For example, Even if Galchenyuk is better but we have no depth it's a reason to keep DD however if someone comes up and is a truly better fit for 3rd line I don't see why DD should stay. I don't expect him to play all 4 years here.
I strongly disagree that it's Eller vs DD. One would argue Eller's defensive ability will never put him in a insulated 3rd line role. Eller's spot on the team will never be that of an offensive center. Galchenyuk and Plekanec are better offensively. Only way Eller hits an offensive role is if Plekanec falls off the map.
I consider Plekanec able to play any role and don't see his future in question. That's why I suggest DD vs Galchenyuk because DD is the weakest link of the top 6 center group(DD and Plekanec). I never suggested DD was our first line center, only that Plekanec's job as a top 6 center wouldn't change.
Saying Plekanec vs Galchenyuk is wrong to me for one reason. Whoever wins shouldn't make the other expendable. In the case of Galchenyuk vs DD, then yes, DD can be made expendable under certain circumstances.
NHLFutureGuy3
Registered User
- Aug 22, 2008
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Yeah so you think he will be traded before his contract is up. My point is that when you want to trade someone, you have to give this player ice time to showcase them and hope they are very productive. This means he will get playing time even if he is passed on the depth chart and even if he has no real place on the team. The team will suffer as a result. That's never a good situation. The contract should have never been that long.
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