What if David Desharnais produces this year?

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NHLFutureGuy3

Registered User
Aug 22, 2008
539
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The reason why people were going "???†is because of the above. Basically you are saying, whether intentional or not, that no matter how well DD does, his stock level is the same as when he had a bad year. Eg. He gets miraculously 82 points this year... But his stock level doesn't change. Even if he gets 100... still the same...
Makes sense? Of course not. The only way his stock doesn't rise is if he doesn't improve much.

OK thanks for clarifying. Yes this is because right now, my opinion is that GM's might look at last year as an off year for him and look at his 60 point year as a normal year for him. No one knows what his normal pace actually is right now. If he gets 90 points then his stock will definitely go up. My opinion is that he was very fortunate to get 60 points that year and he will never reproduce that again. If he does manage to reach 60 points or close to it, his stock won't go up by that much, people will feel a little more comfortable trading for him but not much more than they are now. Not trading him now is more of risk than it isn't because of how it would affect his value if he has one more bad year.
 

bsl

Registered User
Oct 9, 2009
10,137
3,368
Fourth, for the last two seasons, we paid 850K for Desharnais. Find me one team in the league who paid that price for a first line center (1b if you prefer). Even at 3.5M for a second line center is a good deal.

I stopped there. If we had a superstar at the time making 9 million, and we were contending, then DD making 850K is important. In reality, Habs not contending, it means nothing.

Now it is different. 3.5 Mill is a totally different story. That is a good salary for a guy who is basically useless, and we could probably get better value than him for 2.5 Mill.

You made the money argument. DD has now gone from cheap and harmless, to expensive and harmful, in the Habs cup window.
 

durojean

Registered User
May 29, 2007
2,311
1,276
The funny thing is you call him useless...

I think he's actually been pretty useful to the team. Probably overused but still useful.

I remember his rookie half season with White and Pouliot, in that role he did pretty well dominating other teams weak opposition.
 

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
22,145
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You are comparing Gomez and Desharnais.

Gomez did 11 points in 2011-12.
We can all agree that Desharnais had a bad season with a pace of 50 points.
Would be OK to get this at 3.5M but he did it at 850K.

Let's see what you get for 3.5M:
Ryder just signed for 3.5M. Upshall did 34 points for the same.
Turris best season is 29 points. Cullen peaked at 48 points for 3.5.
Koivu is now down to 38 points. Stajan best was 31 points in the last three season.

Some think that Desharnais is preventing Eller and Galchenyuk to get a spot on the top-6.
It is not the case, Eller and Galchenyuk have to show that they can get his spot.
Therrien wants to win. Once it is clear that others players are ahead of DD, he will give them ice time.

The last thing I want to see is to remove DD and give the ice time to our young players.
They need to fight for it and win it.
Last season, we saw it Galchenyuk and Gallagher pushing other players out of the line-up: gone are Armstrong and Halpern.
This season we have Tinordi and Bournival pushing Bouillon and White/Dumont.

It is possible to see Eller and/or Galchenyuk push Desharnais from top-3 and top PP unit.
But we are not there yet.
For now, best d-men are playing against Desharnais, not Eller.

I am not comparing Gomez and DD
I am comparing the situations.

Still...DD only got the job because Gomez sucked, not because he outplayed him or even outproduce him. Not the same as Eller who outplayed and outproduced DD last year.

But you'Re completely stuck on how cheap DD is for the amount of points he make.
So, since Ryder made more points than DD in the last 2 seasons....we should have signed him back cause he came even cheaper??

Even if he make 1 millions for the next 5 years, it doesn't mean that he's the best guy for that job!

But what Eller or Galchenyuk have to do to show they can earn that spot?

Both of them outproduce DD last year....do they need to outproduce him for 2 years in a row before we make a move?

As for fighting for the job, Eller started on the bench, then on the wing, then on the 4th line.....to ended the season as Habs best player with 13 points in his last 12 games: i think he put up a hell of a fight!!!

Did he diserve a litlle candy?
At least a tryout!

As for: Best D-men are playing against DD.

Not true, best D-men played against the hottest line at the moment, and last year, DD's line wasn't the hottest line too often. Having said that, Therrien is trying to put the best line against the worst D-men and the other coach is trying to do the contrary.

At home, DD doens't face the best d-men...on the road, that's mayby right!
 

Goldthorpe

Meditating Guru
Jan 22, 2003
5,076
812
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Both of them outproduce DD last year....do they need to outproduce him for 2 years in a row before we make a move?
They outproduced him because he had a bad season, not because they were so much better. Eller and Gally haven't been lighting it up since the beginning of the camp - are you confident that they'll have a better season than Desharnais? Personally I'm not. It's certainly possible, but I certainly wouldn't bet a place in the playoff on this question.

If Eller or Gally can't clearly outplay Desharnais (and reading how some people see the latter it shouldn't be very difficult isn't it?), then there's no point in thinking they deserve his place (although I certainly hope both will get more PP time this year). Desharnais started his NHL career on the bottom lines, and had to produce with everyone he was playing with before having a sniff on a scoring line. IMHO Eller and Gally have yet to show how they can create offense by themselves and make their teammates so much better just by their play, like Desharnais did two years ago.
 

Mario le Magnifique

Habs apologist, closet Pens fan
Dec 6, 2007
3,459
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I am not comparing Gomez and DD
I am comparing the situations.

Still...DD only got the job because Gomez sucked, not because he outplayed him or even outproduce him. Not the same as Eller who outplayed and outproduced DD last year.

But you'Re completely stuck on how cheap DD is for the amount of points he make.
So, since Ryder made more points than DD in the last 2 seasons....we should have signed him back cause he came even cheaper??

Even if he make 1 millions for the next 5 years, it doesn't mean that he's the best guy for that job!

But what Eller or Galchenyuk have to do to show they can earn that spot?

Both of them outproduce DD last year....do they need to outproduce him for 2 years in a row before we make a move?

As for fighting for the job, Eller started on the bench, then on the wing, then on the 4th line.....to ended the season as Habs best player with 13 points in his last 12 games: i think he put up a hell of a fight!!!

Did he diserve a litlle candy?
At least a tryout!

As for: Best D-men are playing against DD.

Not true, best D-men played against the hottest line at the moment, and last year, DD's line wasn't the hottest line too often. Having said that, Therrien is trying to put the best line against the worst D-men and the other coach is trying to do the contrary.

At home, DD doens't face the best d-men...on the road, that's mayby right!

Yes, Eller has to prove he can outplay DD over a 82 games season. DD also has to prove he belongs to the NHL. That's what I like, players that feel the need to prove themselves so they upgrade their game and effort night in and out.

You're entirely right about coaches putting offensive tools when the worst defense of the oposing team is on the ice. That said, I've yet to see Eller being a dominant offensive force you can rely on, as much as DD. As much as I like Eller, he's as much a product of Gallys than DD is a product of Pac.

DD will prove once again he's a reliable 50-60 points center and haters are going to hate. Imagine the hate now if he can developp his defensive game, and become a two-way center like Plek. DD is entering his peak and what we'll see in the next few years is going to be his best, and the lenght of his contract pretty much covers his peak. Considering there is no better options at this point, I'm happy they signed him for those terms. Don't forget that Plek is past his peak and that Eller / Gally are still raw. Only in Montreal a player gets critiscized because of size when he puts up .6X PPG.
 

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
22,145
24,760
They outproduced him because he had a bad season, not because they were so much better. Eller and Gally haven't been lighting it up since the beginning of the camp - are you confident that they'll have a better season than Desharnais? Personally I'm not. It's certainly possible, but I certainly wouldn't bet a place in the playoff on this question.

If Eller or Gally can't clearly outplay Desharnais (and reading how some people see the latter it shouldn't be very difficult isn't it?), then there's no point in thinking they deserve his place (although I certainly hope both will get more PP time this year). Desharnais started his NHL career on the bottom lines, and had to produce with everyone he was playing with before having a sniff on a scoring line. IMHO Eller and Gally have yet to show how they can create offense by themselves and make their teammates so much better just by their play, like Desharnais did two years ago.


Points per 60 minutes played:

Galchenyuk : 12th in the NHL
Eller : 17th in the NHL

So they outproduced DD cause they were part of the best in NHL, considering
their respective ice-time. Not only cause DD had a bad season.

You said: Desharnais started his NHL career on the bottom lines, and had to produce with everyone he was playing with before having a sniff on a scoring line

He played 58 games precisely before being put on a scoring line:
27pts in 58 games....not bad!!

BUT

He was on the powerplay from day 1 and that helps a lot.
A chance that very few player receive.

What was his true production as a bottom 6 players (Without PP)
17 pts in 58 games.....That's not what i call "producing well on the bottom line"

Last year, Eller had a rotating lines....He played with Galchy, but not every shift (Ice-time will show you this). He played 2nd, 3rd and 4th line....from wing to center....with Armstrong, Dumont, Moen, Prust, Cole, Ryder....He practically played with every player...and everytime it works.

I'm not saying throw DD out and put Eller at his place.
I'm saying: try it!!

Cause IMO, Eller prove way more than DD did when given that job!

But then again, if you think DD made Pacioretty and Cole better two years ago...
I think it's they other way around! Never forget, Pacioretty did as well with Gomez than he did with DD!!

Yes, Eller has to prove he can outplay DD over a 82 games season. DD also has to prove he belongs to the NHL. That's what I like, players that feel the need to prove themselves so they upgrade their game and effort night in and out.

You're entirely right about coaches putting offensive tools when the worst defense of the oposing team is on the ice. That said, I've yet to see Eller being a dominant offensive force you can rely on, as much as DD. As much as I like Eller, he's as much a product of Gallys than DD is a product of Pac.

DD will prove once again he's a reliable 50-60 points center and haters are going to hate. Imagine the hate now if he can developp his defensive game, and become a two-way center like Plek. DD is entering his peak and what we'll see in the next few years is going to be his best, and the lenght of his contract pretty much covers his peak. Considering there is no better options at this point, I'm happy they signed him for those terms. Don't forget that Plek is past his peak and that Eller / Gally are still raw. Only in Montreal a player gets critiscized because of size when he puts up .6X PPG.

The way i see it:

We now know that given good winger, Eller is able to make things works.
He played like 10 games with Gallagher and 2/3 of every game with Galchenyuk.
(Even then, he and Galchenyuk didn't play together at the start of the season...took about 12-14 games)

But of course it would help any center to be given good wingers!

Being a dominant offensive force......name me one player that is dominant force playing 15 minutes a games (with 2.5 minute on the PK) without powerplay time.
Hard to do....30pts in 46 games is kind of the best you can hope for in these conditions. Give the kid a chance, he diserve it, that's all!

And the reason why in MTL poeple critized a 0.6X player cause of his size...is pretty simple.

Gomez was a small 60ish points player
Koivu was a small 60ish points player too
Plekanec is also a small 60ish points player

And if i go back in time.....we've been crying for a decade that we need to get bigger at center. Now we have another small 60ish point player...and he is the smallest of them all:

And suddenly we think we're gonna be fine???
And suddenly getting bigger at center is not an issue???
And suddenly having the smallest player in the NHL at that position is a great idea??

Mayby it is....i wanna see the habs win, no matter what!
So i would be thrilled to see DD become an offensive juggernauts

But....
Been there, done that....just don't wanna try it one more time after it failed for more than a decade!
 

Clippy

Registered User
Sep 22, 2011
610
84
If Desharnais produces this year we could always trade Galchenyuk. He would fetch us a good player in return, like Letang or another superstar.










:sarcasm:
 

MSLs absurd thighs

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
9,424
4,280
If Desharnais produces, people will cry about how he got Pacioretty on his wing, using a 4 games sample size from 2 years ago to try and prove how Plekanec is apparently even better for Patches than DD...
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
30,332
11
Halifax
If Desharnais produces, people will cry about how he got Pacioretty on his wing, using a 4 games sample size from 2 years ago to try and prove how Plekanec is apparently even better for Patches than DD...

And it will be interesting if the stats prove those assertions correct again.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,836
16,567
And it will be interesting if the stats prove those assertions correct again.

If Pacioretty makes DD, then he'd just make Plekanec... I mean, what's good for one is good for the other from a team perspective, right?
 

Rosso Scuderia

Registered User
Jun 30, 2012
9,932
4,115
If Desharnais produces, people will cry about how he got Pacioretty on his wing, using a 4 games sample size from 2 years ago to try and prove how Plekanec is apparently even better for Patches than DD...


:laugh:

So butthurt.

At least you said it. IF he produces because last year, he showed that he won't necessarily produced with Pacioretty on his wing, and MacPac showed that he can still produce without DD helping him.
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
30,332
11
Halifax
If Pacioretty makes DD, then he'd just make Plekanec... I mean, what's good for one is good for the other from a team perspective, right?

You're talking about someone who has always been one of our top scorers, despite starting just about every year beside new people, and playing with just about everyone else in between.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,836
16,567
You're talking about someone who has always been one of our top scorers, despite starting just about every year beside new people, and playing with just about everyone else in between.

...but who was only a +60 points player twice, including an occurence where he was the regular center of the guy who possibly had the best season for a Hab forward since ... all things being equal, Vincent Damphousse? Mats Naslund?

I mean, I'd LIKE to see Pacioretty with Plekanec at some point during the season, while sending Bourque on DD's right wing with whoever has decent offensive skills on the left wing (that being basically anybody who can play LW with some skill...).

But the Habs are built along a concept of balanced offense.

I see three key guys : Plekanec, Pacioretty and Galchenyuk. All very different as far as skillset is concerned, and you'll notice that Plekanec is really the only two-way minded and proven guy in that group. And also probably the less gifted player amongst those. And the smallest.

Those guys, in a balanced setting, shouldn't play together, or else our lines lose their interchangeability, which is probably primordial, because a Pac - Plek - Galch line is a good first line, but far from an overwhelming one.

The logic dictates that the key center plays with non-key wingers.
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,836
16,567
Replacing him by a BG-type player like Kyle Chipchura or Garth Murray would definately improve this team.

EHh...

a BG ?!?!

Who's BG in that context...

Bob Gainey?
Brandon Gallager?

And did you just compare those two scrubs to Gainey or Gallagher?

...

Is my sarcasm-detector off?
 

expy

Registered User
Nov 2, 2010
15,406
16,533
Desharnais and Bouillon need to go. By far the worst players on the team.
 

rockjngo

Registered User
Oct 31, 2011
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0
Like I said for many years. DD and plekanec disappears against bigger teams like Boston and Toronto.
 
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