What are the looming issues for Dubas that you believe are key?

[Dekes For Days]

after 2 years we're worse with him

This is false. We are a better team with him than without him. We have seen improvements in the areas that Tavares can impact.

had we continued to pace a .500 for the remainder of the season like we had the our last 25 games there was a good chance based on points we wouldn't have made the playoffs

We played at a 0.540 pace for our final 25 games, not 0.500, and while missing significant pieces of our roster and our goaltending playing like garbage. We were finally getting healthy, we had an easier schedule remaining, our goaltending was solidified and showing signs of improvement, and there was very little risk of missing the playoffs.

 

[hotpaws]

This is false. We are a better team with him than without him. We have seen improvements in the areas that Tavares can impact.

We played at a 0.540 pace for our final 25 games, not 0.500, and while missing significant pieces of our roster and our goaltending playing like garbage. We were finally getting healthy, we had an easier schedule remaining, our goaltending was solidified and showing signs of improvement, and there was very little risk of missing the playoffs.

if JT can't have an impact on wins/losses why did we sign him ?

sorry , to be more exact since your splitting hairs we were 1 game above .500 the last 27 games or so and we weren't the only team with injuries , hell based on your excuses one could argue Babs was fired unjustly when taking into account injuries ad a backup goalie that was supplied by the GM who couldn't win a game

 

[Dekes For Days]

if JT can't have an impact on wins/losses why did we sign him ?

He does have impact on wins and losses. He is just not the only thing on the team that impacts wins and losses.

to be more exact since your splitting hairswe were 1 game above .500 the last 27 games or so

Splitting hairs? You claimed we were 0.500 over the final 25 games. We were not. You were wrong. This on top of ignoring the rest of the season, and all context and impacting factors during that time. And now you're changing the time frame to an even more obscure one (still ignoring context) to make the Leafs look worse than they were.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

So you’re saying it’s better to have two franchise centers as opposed to having one and being able to acquire one top 2 rhd? Or acquiring a #2 center and a top 4 rhd? Or just hanging onto the $11 million until these players became available? Personally I would prefer this possibility.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like Tavares, but with us already having Matthews, I don’t see the need.

Worked out ok for Pitssburgh in 2017 when they won a cup. They had 2 of the top 5 centers in the league and a defense that consisted of Letang, Maatta, Dumoulin, Hunwick, Cole and Oleksiak. That isn't exactly a stud defense corps. If I'm not mistaken I think Letang was out in those playoffs due to injury as well.

I agree that it would be better to have a good balance but when a top 10 Center in the league becomes available (which never happens), that doesn't cost you assets, you take it. I would much rather keep the two centers and trade one of our wingers for D if you have to. Wingers are easier to replace than centers. Like if we were to trade Nylander for example, we have Robertson who looks like he can be a good replacement on the 2nd line. He's young and there is no guarantee but a skilled winger is easier to replace than a ppg center. Pitts wingers consisted of Kessel, Guentzel, Hornqvist, Rust Sheary, Hagelin. They were built pretty similar to us.

Carolina in 2006 is another example of a team that had two 1Cs in Staal and Brind'Amour that a D corps that consisted of F.Kaberle , Hedican, Ward, Tverdovsky, Commodore and Wesley. Not exactly a stud Defense.

Again I would prefer a more balance team but not every cup winner was built the same way and those 2 teams show that you don't necessarily need a top tier defense to win. This year having Rielly, Muzzin and Barrie is a great looking top 3 on paper. Barrie will be gone next year but if we had another Muzzin type player on the right side to compliment Rielly that would be a helluva group. They aren't exactly easy to acquire though. A guy like Pesce or Manson for example are guys with huge asking prices through trade. Hopefully a healthy Dermott can progress to where everyone Hoped he would and Sandin and Lilly can turn into good top 4 D men like they're tracking to be on the cheap.

 

[hotpaws]

He does have impact on wins and losses. He is just not the only thing on the team that impacts wins and losses.

Splitting hairs? You claimed we were 0.500 over the final 25 games. We were not. You were wrong. This on top of ignoring the rest of the season, and all context and impacting factors during that time. And now you're changing the time frame to an even more obscure one (still ignoring context) to make the Leafs look worse than they were.

you previously said he had no impact on wins/loses , now your saying he does so i guess you now agree with me when i said we've been worse with him

here's context for you which encompasses the entire season , we had a hot 20 games in the middle of our season and played 1 game above .500 the rest of the year ,

 

[ACC1224]

I don't know the exact amount. However if you look at Nylander's contract history on CapFriendly, he was paid a pro rated salary of $10.2 million AAV in the 2018-19 season to make up for the games he missed.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/william-nylander

Exactly where Dubas caved.

 

[Bomber0104]

how's having 2 franchise centers working out for us ?

Blogger stats' "underlying" metrics are the bees knees, haven't you heard?

 

[Dekes For Days]

you previously said he had no impact on wins/loses

I did not say this. Do not put words in other people's mouths. He has impact on wins and losses, but he is not the only thing on the team that impacts wins and losses.

Also, this is a weird discussion, since under this core:

ROW, pre-Tavares: 40.5/season
ROW, post-Tavares: 43.7/season

Despite many more obstacles in the post-Tavares era. We are a better team for having signed Tavares.

here's context for you which encompasses the entire season , we had a hot 20 games in the middle of our season and played 1 game above .500 the rest of the year ,

That so-called context is missing quite a lot of context. More accurately, we played poorly when we had 2-3 of the following happening all at the same time:
-Considerable injuries
-Horrible goaltending
-A coach mismanaging the team

And played at an absolutely dominant level otherwise.

 

[hotpaws]

Blogger stats' "underlying" metrics are the bees knees, haven't you heard?

i just learned there more important than wins , lol

 

[Bomber0104]

I did not say this. Do not put words in other people's mouths. He has impact on wins and losses, but he is not the only thing on the team that impacts wins and losses.

Also, this is a weird discussion, since under this core:

ROW, pre-Tavares: 40.5/season
ROW, post-Tavares: 43.7/season

Despite many more obstacles in the post-Tavares era. We are a better team for having signed Tavares.

That so-called context is missing quite a lot of context. More accurately, we played poorly when we had 2-3 of the following happening all at the same time:
-Considerable injuries
-Horrible goaltending
-A coach mismanaging the team

And played at an absolutely dominant level otherwise.

Context = excuses ?

Every team deals with "context" as you put it.

Some of them keep winning though, and don't make excuses for it.

 

[Bomber0104]

i just learned there more important than wins , lol

"Raw" wins?

Nah dude...

"Expected" wins are way more valuable.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Every team deals with "context" as you put it.

No, every team does not deal with the same impacting factors.

"Expected" wins are way more valuable.

Our ROW wins have increased, FYI.

 

[Bomber0104]

No, every team does not deal with the same impacting factors.

Yes they do.

On average there's a lot of "context"/excuses for every team's performance year in and year out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes they do.

On average.

"On average". Not sure what you mean by that. If you mean over the course of a franchise's existence, perhaps to some extent. Over the course of a single season (which wasn't even finished)? Not in the slightest.

 

[hotpaws]

I did not say this. Do not put words in other people's mouths. He has impact on wins and losses, but he is not the only thing on the team that impacts wins and losses.

Also, this is a weird discussion, since under this core:

ROW, pre-Tavares: 40.5/season
ROW, post-Tavares: 43.7/season

Despite many more obstacles in the post-Tavares era. We are a better team for having signed Tavares.

That so-called context is missing quite a lot of context. More accurately, we played poorly when we had 2-3 of the following happening all at the same time:
-Considerable injuries
-Horrible goaltending
-A coach mismanaging the team

And played at an absolutely dominant level otherwise.

we have less points per season , that's how they determine who gets into playoffs , strange you din't know that

that's not context that's excuses , lucky the Raptors didn't use excuses and just kept plugging along to the 2nd best record in the east even while being decimated with injuries

 

[Bomber0104]

"On average". Not sure what you mean by that. If you mean over the course of a franchise's existence, perhaps to some extent. Over the course of a single season (which wasn't even finished)? Not in the slightest.

So the Leafs set a franchise-record in "context"/excuse-related performance this year?

Tell me more.

I'm all ears.

 

[hotpaws]

"Raw" wins?

Nah dude...

"Expected" wins are way more valuable.

yup , expected wins , expected goals and now according to the Daily Deker expected cups

i learned today we're the expected cup defending champions

 

[Dekes For Days]

we have less points per season

I thought we were talking about wins/losses. What happened?

that's how they determine who gets into playoffs

That's nice. Doesn't mean it's the only measure of a team, and doesn't mean you can just ignore all context to push a narrative.

according to the Daily Deker expected cups
i learned today we're the expected cup defending champions

The only one to have mentioned "expected cups" is you.

 

[hotpaws]

I thought we were talking about wins/losses. What happened?

That's nice. Doesn't mean it's the only measure of a team, and doesn't mean you can just ignore all context to push a narrative.

we're talking record which leads to points which leads to who gets into the playoffs and in the playoffs whoever wins more games gets to advance and eventually win the cup

your measure of a team doesn't mean anything to anyone but you which is fine since this is all about being entertained and i'm sure you when you celebrate us winning the expected cup after every season you have a great time

 

[Dekes For Days]

we're talking record

Might want to look at your own posts:

if JT can't have an impact on wins/losses why did we sign him?

Also, the only one looking exclusively at single/partial season points with zero context is you. Most understand that more than that is necessary to properly evaluate a team and the moves they make.

 

[kb]

Took over a competitive, tough, top team in the league, and turned it into a bubble team with no heart.

He needs to undo what he has done.

By adding the toughness and defense that was ignored by the previous GM?

Yeah, let's undo that.

Please, let's not let facts get in the way here.

 

[kb]

Drop in the ocean.

Far worse than anything Dubas did.

And Lou has done that repeatedly for years. Salary Cap and negotiations is not his forte.

 

[kb]

So you’re saying it’s better to have two franchise centers as opposed to having one and being able to acquire one top 2 rhd? Or acquiring a #2 center and a top 4 rhd? Or just hanging onto the $11 million until these players became available? Personally I would prefer this possibility.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like Tavares, but with us already having Matthews, I don’t see the need.

How would the Leafs acquire this top pairing RHD?

Genuinely curious.

 

[ottomaddox]

True. But seeing as it was a contract signed when Marleau was 35+ and Marleau had also said that he wanted out, and his family had already moved back to SJ, Dubas' options were real thin. They consisted of:

1) Convincing Marleau to stay for the season which if he was successful at would have required him probably trading something along the lines of Johnsson and Kapanen for futures to come up with the cap space for Marleau. And if Dubas was not successful in convincing Marleau to stay and Marleau instead simply walked away the Leafs' would have still needed to come up with the cap space for Marleau (again 35+ contract), which again would have meant something along the lines of trading Johnsson and Kapanen.

2) Dubas could have bought Marleau out which would have saved the 1st, but again would have cost 6.25M against the cap and probably cost something along the lines of Johnsson and Kapanen to make room.

3) Trading him. Seeing as SJ would not take him at a 6.25M cap hit - or even with max retention, the only trade option was to find a team that was willing to buy him out. That cost a 1st.

It was a terrible signing. Just completely dreadful - and exceptionally stupid. No one should defend it. And anyone who thinks that there was an easier way out should look into it.

I don't think TOR needed to buy Marleau out or trade him. What would be the harm in letting him play out his final year?

This Marleau signing doesn't even come close to other signings of the past and current players. It wasn't dreadful.


Marleau was never
a bad player ever for TOR.

Most
the leaf fans who hated his deal: have contempt for veteran players, and seem to only buy jerseys of / cheer for players who's contracts they appreciate. Yes. That means that they only buy Pastrňák and Sheifele jerseys and nothing else.

Perhaps I'm the only one who never shit on Marleau when he was here. The fact that he got traded 3 times this year could be mean the worst, but I'm trying to be positive. Perhaps Pittsburgh see him as someone who could round out their roster.

Do you know that saying:

"Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

It applies to TOR's fans and organization in the worst way. Look no further than our list of players: Clarkson, Horton, and Kessel. The same team who bought out Grabbo, and Komisarek. The same team who gave Dion and Kessel massive contracts. Let's not forget Robidas and Lupul. If you want to look further go check out our what Tavares, Marner, Matthews, and Nylander are getting paid. All of which are overpaid (some by large and small margins).

 

[deletethis]

How would the Leafs acquire this top pairing RHD?

Genuinely curious.

St. Louis re-signs Alex Pietrangelo making the Blues amenable to accepting a king's ransom for Parayko like Kapanen, Liljegren, Abramov and a pick.