What are the looming issues for Dubas that you believe are key?

Pick 3 issues that are key to Dubas' success as Leafs GM.


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kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
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I’m curious as well. That’s why I said just hang onto the money if no one is available. We don’t have to spend for the sake of spending.
I actually went through a mini exercise where the Leafs don't sign Tavares. The forwards suddenly look a bit weak - especially if you have to trade a Nylander + or a Marner to get the top pairing RD, because they really couldn't afford to trade any high picks at that point. Kadri would be #2c, and the Leafs would be looking for a cheaper #3C. I am also not sure with all that they would be further ahead either. But that was just spitballing.

That Marleau signing was such an unmitigated disaster.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
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Yeah it does, and Marner is clearly better. Point was outscored by his linemate by 36 points last year. A tiny drop off by Kucherov and Point isn't even PPG anymore. Marner is producing the same as last year even though Tavares got worse

Point had 92 points to MM 94 points last year, in 3 less games. So they have similar numbers, not 60 % greater numbers. I’ll give you 5-10% more.
Also like said above Kane’s deal equivalent was about 9 million, he is worth less than Kane,
 

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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and as i just told you Kane signed for almost 2 million less at today's cap so tell me again how using Kane justifies Dubas paying Marner almost 11m ?
also i have no idea how you figure he should have gotten more than Rants
Because Marner was a much better player than either Rantanen or Kane (who got 1 less year) prior to signing, which you would know if you bothered to take the time to read and understand any of the things I linked you to.
 
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Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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You're right that it was near impossible to pull off without moving Marleau at the high cost. Maybe Dubas could have not traded Kadri ($4.25M AAV) for Barrie and Kerfoot ($6.25M total), played league minimum in Barrie's place, squeezed all of Kapanen, Johnsson and especially Marner to make the cap. The result would be 3 ticked off young wingers and a terrible right side on defense. Maybe still would have needed to move one of Johnsson and Kapanen to the cap.

Maybe the one valid area of criticism is the cost to get Carolina to buy out Marleau. Yes, it cost them a full cap hit in 2019-20 but it only cost them about $830K in actual money to buy a 1st round pick. Maybe Dubas could have negotiated a better return pick than a 6th.

Actually i think it cost them closer to 3.5 milion in real dollars
 

Golden_Jet

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Sep 21, 2005
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Because Marner was a much better player than either Rantanen or Kane (who got 1 less year) prior to signing, which you would know if you bothered to take the time to read and understand any of the things I linked you to.

Kane won 3 cups, a hart and conn Smythe on that contract, Marner won’t be as good as Kane in his career,
Marner should of been 8.5 to 9 million max, they didn’t even get an 8 year deal.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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you keep Dubas didn't get bent over but you can't come up with any comparable deals , Kane signed for 11.09% or about 9m at today's cap and even going back over a decade people have to spin real hard to try to make the case Malkin is somewhat a comparable to Mathews

so i'll keep asking , what comparable's deals out are there for Marner and Mathews that justify your belief that Dubas didn't get bent over ?

He got more than Toews and less than Crosby/Malkin.

A rookie centre scoring 40 goals is more inpressive than Kanes debut...

I dont see whats hard to grasp about this...

S
 

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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Braydon Point 3 years at 6.75 million compared to Marner is a good example.
MM - 300 g, 291 points
BP- 295 g, 262 points, 33 more goals
Marner is a better player than Point and Point got a bridge deal. Also, while Point's deal is quite good based on production level (relative to most post-ELC contracts, not just Marner), one can't ignore that he played with the runaway art ross winner and was the 3rd best producer on his line. His production level was less influenced by his individual ability. He was also more than a year older than Marner, starting in his D+2, which means that production level represented him at a point closer to his prime.
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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He got more than Toews and less than Crosby/Malkin.

A rookie centre scoring 40 goals is more inpressive than Kanes debut...

I dont see whats hard to grasp about this...

S
we were comparing Kane to Marner not Mathews

and why did we have to go back so many years when he just could have slotted him in between McD and Eichel at the same 8 yr term ?
 
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Dekes For Days

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Kane won 3 cups, a hart and conn Smythe on that contract, Marner won’t be as good as Kane in his career,
Marner has a very good chance to be better than Kane over his career. Maybe not in cups, but that really says more about the now illegal advantages that teams like Chicago benefited from in that era and the current pandemic we are going through, than Marner as an individual. Also, what Kane did on that contract is irrelevant. All that matters is what he did prior to that contract, and Marner was much better, in pretty much every way.
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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Because Marner was a much better player than either Rantanen or Kane (who got 1 less year) prior to signing, which you would know if you bothered to take the time to read and understand any of the things I linked you to.
Marner a much better player ? lol , ok

and since you brought up Kane's length of term maybe you could explain how AM signed for under 1m less per year than McD even though his contract is 3 years shorter
 
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Dekes For Days

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Marner a much better player ?
Yep.
and since you brought up Kane's length of term maybe you could explain how AM signed for under 1m less per year than McD even thought his contract 3 years shorter
Well, for one, saying he signed for "1m less per year" isn't all that accurate, since they signed at different times.

McDavid's cap hit percentage under an 81.5m cap would be 13.6m, and that doesn't even count the 750k discount McDavid gave on their negotiated cap hit, which would have put him at 14.4m.

It's hard for people to accept, especially because of the contrasting trajectory McDavid took after signing, and his significant opportunity advantages that get ignored, but Matthews was actually not as far off from McDavid as people think in their pre-signing samples, especially when you consider primary point/goal production.
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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Yep.

Well, for one, saying he signed for "1m less per year" isn't all that accurate, since they signed at different times.

McDavid's cap hit percentage under an 81.5m cap would be 13.6m, and that doesn't even count the 750k discount McDavid gave on their negotiated cap hit, which would have put him at 14.4m.

It's hard for people to accept, especially because of the trajectory McDavid took after signing, and his significant opportunity advantages that get ignored, but Matthews was actually not as far off from McDavid as people think in their pre-signing samples, especially when you consider primary point/goal production.
Marner wasn't a better player than Kane at the time they signed

Mathews contract is 11,93m at a 81.5m cap and i've been told endlessly Mathews gave over a 4m plus discount but you avoided my main point (which isn't a suprise) which is Mathews signed for 3 less years than McD

the trajectory McD took after signing ? maybe you should look at the awards he won after his 2nd yr before posting your endless nonsense
 
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Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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Marner is a better player than Kane at the time they signed
Yep, as I showed you.
i've been told endlessly Mathews gave over a 4m plus discount
Uhh.. what?
but you avoided my main point (which isn't a suprise) which is Mathews signed for 3 less years than McD
I didn't avoid that at all. McDavid signed for the equivalent of over 2m more than Matthews, which accounts for the term difference.
the trajectory McD took after signing ?
Yes, McDavid took off after signing, and Matthews has not, at least not yet.
 
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hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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Yep, as I showed you.

Uhh.. what?

I didn't avoid that at all. McDavid signed for the equivalent of over 2m more than Matthews, which accounts for the term difference.

Yes, McDavid took off after signing, and Matthews has not, at least not yet.
how did you show Marner was better than Kane when they signed ? you endlessly saying it doesn't make it true

well according to this board Mathews could have signed an offer sheet with Zona for the full 20% of the cap so he gave us a 4m discount , no different than you making up crap to try to inflate McD's contract

the actual difference is between there salaries at a 81.5m cap is roughly 1,7m not over 2m and Mathews signed for less years , also Mathews is no where near the player McD is so i have no idea how you can say there equivalent players

McD won the Hart/Lindsay/Ross trophies his 2nd year before he signed his extension so wtf nonsense are you spewing about how he broke out after his contract ?
 
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BlueBaron

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Fun poll OP.
I went with the D, The Mo and the expansion draft.

I see a lot of opportunity with the expansion draft if Dubas is smart. It's a great time to move assets around.
 

Shanwhatplan

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Mar 31, 2019
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I actually went through a mini exercise where the Leafs don't sign Tavares. The forwards suddenly look a bit weak - especially if you have to trade a Nylander + or a Marner to get the top pairing RD, because they really couldn't afford to trade any high picks at that point. Kadri would be #2c, and the Leafs would be looking for a cheaper #3C. I am also not sure with all that they would be further ahead either. But that was just spitballing.

That Marleau signing was such an unmitigated disaster.

Yup, totally agree about the Marleau signing.
So if they hadn’t signed Tavares, there wasn’t/hasn’t been any top 2 or even 4 rhd that we could have signed?
 

acrobaticgoalie

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Jun 18, 2014
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I agree with what you’re saying, especially regarding it’s easier to replace a winger as opposed to a #1 center (or #2). But with a flat cap for the next 3 seasons, it’s going to be difficult to find a team willing to take on Marner’s contract (Marner is one of my favourite Leafs, but I just don’t think we will ever be a TRUE Cup contender with $33 million tied up in 3 forwards, especially with having to re-sign our upcoming RFAs). It makes it very challenging to have 3 solid lines and a respectable 4th line.
If Dubas can turn us into serious Cup contenders, I’ll be the first one to admit I was way off on my assessment of him (and Shanny, for that matter).
If we keep getting good early returns in the draft like Robertson, Abramov, and Abruzzese it makes it easier to replace middle Sixers like Johnsson and Kap on cheap contracts. It shouldnt be too much of a problem. Obviously there is no guarantee that they make it and you don't usually have that much of a success rate coming out of any 1 given draft but those 3 picks are tracking really well.

Same goes for getting college and Euro free agents like we have in Mikheyev. They haven't all worked out but its definitely a good route to try and replace cheap depth.
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
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Yup, totally agree about the Marleau signing.
So if they hadn’t signed Tavares, there wasn’t/hasn’t been any top 2 or even 4 rhd that we could have signed?
Exactly. Sadly there wasn't one that would have moved the needle. And you could now trade a Nylander or Marner and not kill the depth and scoring with Tavares here.
 

Shanwhatplan

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Mar 31, 2019
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Exactly. Sadly there wasn't one that would have moved the needle. And you could now trade a Nylander or Marner and not kill the depth and scoring with Tavares here.

I can’t argue with that. Hopefully we do well in the playoffs, but if we don’t, then maybe Dubas can pull the trigger on a significant upgrade on defence for one of Marner or Nylander.
 
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Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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Kane won 3 cups, a hart and conn Smythe on that contract, Marner won’t be as good as Kane in his career,
Marner should of been 8.5 to 9 million max, they didn’t even get an 8 year deal.
Yikes dude. Have a look at Kanes stats and say that again.
 

kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,200
21,497
I can’t argue with that. Hopefully we do well in the playoffs, but if we don’t, then maybe Dubas can pull the trigger on a significant upgrade on defence for one of Marner or Nylander.
Agreed. Sadly, trading one away might be the only option with a flat cap coming up.
 
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cesareborgia

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Jun 9, 2010
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Just wish he gave a crap about the team and wasn't a greedy slime ball. Him taking even a mil less would have helped us tenfold. Leafs fan for life my ass. Dubas should never have folded to anything more than 9.25.
The Leafs aren't going to trade their best right winger. He plays well with Matthews and Tavares, can play the PP and PK. Marner can also fit the puck in the tight spaces, which many players can't. If anything Nylander, will be traded before Marner.
 

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