What are the looming issues for Dubas that you believe are key?

[kb]

St. Louis re-signs Alex Pietrangelo making the Blues amenable to accepting a king's ransom for Parayko like Kapanen, Liljegren, Abramov and a pick.

Nice......well played.

Kinda reminds me of the running Hab joke. Apparently every star in the league was easily acquired for Halak, Ryder, and a 2nd.

 

[nuck]

Almost no posts in the last 7 pages about "looming issues for Dubas", just comparing him to Lou and occasionally pissing on Babcock. I wonder how much different this discussion might be after the playoffs. Which of the players we see as expendable now will earn a reset? Which of the core will disappoint us? Will they have a solid run to support Keefe and KD or will they get bounced early and the pitchforks come out? Things are going to shift.

 

[biotk]

I don't think TOR needed to buy Marleau out or trade him. What would be the harm in letting him play out his final year?

Because Marleau told the team that his family had already moved back to SJ and told the team to either move him back to SJ or a location that was close. He had already put his house for sale. There is zero indication that Marleau would have agreed to stay if the Leafs' didn't move him. And if they kept him and he refused to play they would have been on the hook for that whole 6.25M cap (again 35+ contract).

You can go on and on about other about other bad contracts. None of them were as bad. Other contracts they could LTIR or get rid of at a small cost. Couldn't do that Marleau's. It was far worse than any you mention. Again - look into - because you obviously haven't if you think that he was going to play out the final year after telling the team to move him.

 

[kb]

Because Marleau told the team that his family had already moved back to SJ and told the team to either move him back to SJ or a location that was close. He had already put his house for sale. There is zero indication that Marleau would have agreed to stay if the Leafs' didn't move him. And if they kept him and he refused to play they would have been on the hook for that whole 6.25M cap (again 35+ contract).

You can go on and on about other about other bad contracts. None of them were as bad. Other contracts they could LTIR or get rid of at a small cost. Couldn't do that Marleau's. It was far worse than any you mention. Again - look into - because you obviously haven't if you think that he was going to play out the final year after telling the team to move him.

Plus there is that pesky issue of the Leafs having to clear out at least $6.25 in salary just to let a 40 year old borderline 4th line NHL player play out his final season.

 

[hotpaws]

Might want to look at your own posts:

Also, the only one looking exclusively at single/partial season points with zero context is you. Most understand that more than that is necessary to properly evaluate a team and the moves they make.

i'm looking at the 2 seasons he's been with the team , no idea what your looking at

 

[ACC1224]

Plus there is that pesky issue of the Leafs having to clear out at least $6.25 in salary just to let a 40 year old borderline 4th line NHL player play out his final season.

Wouldn’t have had to clear it out if the cap wasn’t maxed.
Dubas chose that path, some like it, some don’t

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wouldn’t have had to clear it out if the cap wasn’t maxed.

The only way around the cap being maxed was significantly decreasing the quality of the team. That is not a valid option.

 

[kb]

Wouldn’t have had to clear it out if the cap wasn’t maxed.
Dubas chose that path, some like it, some don’t

In all fairness, the Leafs cap is/was maxed every season, including the 30th place one. Only now it is maxed by signing young, improving star players. No blame to be laid there, it's the cost of having great young players. The Leafs are blessed to have that talent pool.

It's the contracts like signing a 45 point, 38 year old, heavily in decline winger to a bloated over 35 UFA contract that end up hurting the most. Imagine instead of signing a bloated contract for 38 year old who played the Leafs most stacked position (wing), that money had instead been spent on a good RD instead? It may have altered the current trajectory of the franchise.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Wouldn’t have had to clear it out if the cap wasn’t maxed.
Dubas chose that path, some like it, some don’t[/QUOTE
Regardless of Dubas maxing out the cap, it doesn't negate the fact that Marleau would've been a waste of cap space and minutes that could've gone to a younger more effective player. He was on pace for 27 pts this year. He can't keep up with the play anymore and if he's not putting up points, what good is he taking up a roster spot? We essentially replaced Marleau this year with Mikheyev who is 25 and put up a 48 pt pace in his rookie year and was good defensively and good on the boards.

If he is going to be producing at a 4th line rate I would prefer to have someone like Cizikas who is 29, produced at the same rate and can still keep up with the game and contribute in other areas of the game like checking, PK, blocking shots and defensive assignments.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Wouldn’t have had to clear it out if the cap wasn’t maxed.
Dubas chose that path, some like it, some don’t

Regardless of Dubas maxing out the cap, it doesn't negate the fact that Marleau would've been a waste of cap space and minutes that could've gone to a younger more effective player. He was on pace for 27 pts this year. He can't keep up with the play anymore and if he's not putting up points, what good is he taking up a roster spot? We essentially replaced Marleau this year with Mikheyev who is 25 and put up a 48 pt pace in his rookie year and was good defensively and good on the boards.

If he is going to be producing at a 4th line rate I would prefer to have someone like Cizikas who is 29, produced at the same rate and can still keep up with the game and contribute in other areas of the game like checking, PK, blocking shots and defensive assignments.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

By acquiring Tavares (for free), Kadri became tradeable for that RD. There was no RD (for free) available.

Yes, Dubas was trying to fix our rhd and 3rd line center problem. I give him props for that, although I feel many would have preferred a defence-first type of defenceman. But I would be interested to know what Avs fans thought of Kerfoot as a center?

 

[hotpaws]

Yes, Dubas was trying to fix our rhd and 3rd line center problem. I give him props for that, although I feel many would have preferred a defence-first type of defenceman. But I would be interested to know what Avs fans thought of Kerfoot as a center?

they thought Kerfoot was crap and they were glad to see him go , they did like Barrie however

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes, Dubas was trying to fix our rhd and 3rd line center problem. I give him props for that, although I feel many would have preferred a defence-first type of defenceman. But I would be interested to know what Avs fans thought of Kerfoot as a center?

They make fun of us (and I can't blame them) because some Leafs fans made Kerfoot comments regarding the Selke. They pretty much "hated" the player. I really like the Avs and I didn't care for Kerfoot either.

In retrospect I much rather would have liked another RD as a trade target, for example Manson or Savard. But I guess Dubas was always targeting offensive minded D men (Brodie, Barrie)..

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Worked out ok for Pitssburgh in 2017 when they won a cup. They had 2 of the top 5 centers in the league and a defense that consisted of Letang, Maatta, Dumoulin, Hunwick, Cole and Oleksiak. That isn't exactly a stud defense corps. If I'm not mistaken I think Letang was out in those playoffs due to injury as well.

I agree that it would be better to have a good balance but when a top 10 Center in the league becomes available (which never happens), that doesn't cost you assets, you take it. I would much rather keep the two centers and trade one of our wingers for D if you have to. Wingers are easier to replace than centers. Like if we were to trade Nylander for example, we have Robertson who looks like he can be a good replacement on the 2nd line. He's young and there is no guarantee but a skilled winger is easier to replace than a ppg center. Pitts wingers consisted of Kessel, Guentzel, Hornqvist, Rust Sheary, Hagelin. They were built pretty similar to us.

Carolina in 2006 is another example of a team that had two 1Cs in Staal and Brind'Amour that a D corps that consisted of F.Kaberle , Hedican, Ward, Tverdovsky, Commodore and Wesley. Not exactly a stud Defense.

Again I would prefer a more balance team but not every cup winner was built the same way and those 2 teams show that you don't necessarily need a top tier defense to win. This year having Rielly, Muzzin and Barrie is a great looking top 3 on paper. Barrie will be gone next year but if we had another Muzzin type player on the right side to compliment Rielly that would be a helluva group. They aren't exactly easy to acquire though. A guy like Pesce or Manson for example are guys with huge asking prices through trade. Hopefully a healthy Dermott can progress to where everyone Hoped he would and Sandin and Lilly can turn into good top 4 D men like they're tracking to be on the cheap.

I agree with what you’re saying, especially regarding it’s easier to replace a winger as opposed to a #1 center (or #2). But with a flat cap for the next 3 seasons, it’s going to be difficult to find a team willing to take on Marner’s contract (Marner is one of my favourite Leafs, but I just don’t think we will ever be a TRUE Cup contender with $33 million tied up in 3 forwards, especially with having to re-sign our upcoming RFAs). It makes it very challenging to have 3 solid lines and a respectable 4th line.
If Dubas can turn us into serious Cup contenders, I’ll be the first one to admit I was way off on my assessment of him (and Shanny, for that matter).

 

[ACC1224]

In all fairness, the Leafs cap is/was maxed every season, including the 30th place one. Only now it is maxed by signing young, improving star players. No blame to be laid there, it's the cost of having great young players. The Leafs are blessed to have that talent pool.

It's the contracts like signing a 45 point, 38 year old, heavily in decline winger to a bloated over 35 UFA contract that end up hurting the most. Imagine instead of signing a bloated contract for 38 year old who played the Leafs most stacked position (wing), that money had instead been spent on a good RD instead? It may have altered the current trajectory of the franchise.

Yep we can imagine all kinds of great outcomes.

 

[ACC1224]

Regardless of Dubas maxing out the cap, it doesn't negate the fact that Marleau would've been a waste of cap space and minutes that could've gone to a younger more effective player. He was on pace for 27 pts this year. He can't keep up with the play anymore and if he's not putting up points, what good is he taking up a roster spot? We essentially replaced Marleau this year with Mikheyev who is 25 and put up a 48 pt pace in his rookie year and was good defensively and good on the boards.

If he is going to be producing at a 4th line rate I would prefer to have someone like Cizikas who is 29, produced at the same rate and can still keep up with the game and contribute in other areas of the game like checking, PK, blocking shots and defensive assignments.

Yep Marleau needed to go, no question there.

 

[ottomaddox]

Because Marleau told the team that his family had already moved back to SJ and told the team to either move him back to SJ or a location that was close. He had already put his house for sale. There is zero indication that Marleau would have agreed to stay if the Leafs' didn't move him. And if they kept him and he refused to play they would have been on the hook for that whole 6.25M cap (again 35+ contract).

You can go on and on about other about other bad contracts. None of them were as bad. Other contracts they could LTIR or get rid of at a small cost. Couldn't do that Marleau's. It was far worse than any you mention. Again - look into - because you obviously haven't if you think that he was going to play out the final year after telling the team to move him.

I'm just honest and don't claim to know the truth about how it transpired. Or claim to know Dubas' options.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm just honest and don't claim to know the truth about how it transpired. Or claim to know Dubas' options.

Some believe Dubas had no choice and believe that leaving himself with no options is ok.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

I agree with what you’re saying, especially regarding it’s easier to replace a winger as opposed to a #1 center (or #2). But with a flat cap for the next 3 seasons, it’s going to be difficult to find a team willing to take on Marner’s contract (Marner is one of my favourite Leafs, but I just don’t think we will ever be a TRUE Cup contender with $33 million tied up in 3 forwards, especially with having to re-sign our upcoming RFAs). It makes it very challenging to have 3 solid lines and a respectable 4th line.
If Dubas can turn us into serious Cup contenders, I’ll be the first one to admit I was way off on my assessment of him (and Shanny, for that matter).

The Leafs aren't going to trade their best right winger. He plays well with Matthews and Tavares, can play the PP and PK. Marner can also fit the puck in the tight spaces, which many players can't. If anything Nylander, will be traded before Marner.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Some believe Dubas had no choice and believe that leaving himself with no options is ok.

No, most just understand that the signing was not made by Dubas, and the solution to what ended up being the worst case scenario for his contract was still better than the only possible alternatives (not signing Tavares, bridging all of our RFAs, trading Kapanen and Johnson, or severely downgrading the team in some other ridiculous way) that would have allowed him to stay, make our team worse, and take time away from our better players.

 

[hotpaws]

No, most just understand that the signing was not made by Dubas, and the solution to what ended up being the worst case scenario for his contract was still better than the only possible alternatives (not signing Tavares, bridging all of our RFAs, trading Kapanen and Johnson, or severely downgrading the team in some other ridiculous way) that would have allowed him to stay, make our team worse, and take time away from our better players.

there were more options than that , you just refuse to look at the situation objectively

not getting bent over by all our rfa's would have saved us millions and also understanding Marleau didn't hold all the cards would have put Dubas in a much better situation , unfortunately he's weak as evidenced by the poll of agents saying he's there favorite GM to deal with

 

[Shanwhatplan]

They make fun of us (and I can't blame them) because some Leafs fans made Kerfoot comments regarding the Selke. They pretty much "hated" the player. I really like the Avs and I didn't care for Kerfoot either.

In retrospect I much rather would have liked another RD as a trade target, for example Manson or Savard. But I guess Dubas was always targeting offensive minded D men (Brodie, Barrie)..

That, I believe, is his downfall, wanting to go with offensive-minded D men.

 

[Dekes For Days]

there were more options than that

I've yet to hear any other possible option.

not getting bent over by all our rfa's would have saved us millions

He didn't get "bent over" by our RFAs. This isn't an actual option. Regardless of what false things you want to believe about their worth, Dubas got the best deal possible. The only alternative would have been trading them under value, which would fall under the "severely downgrading the team in some other ridiculous way" category.

and also understanding Marleau didn't hold all the cards

Except he quite literally did. He was a 35+ contract with a NMC thanks to our good pal Lou.

 

[Notsince67]

How would the Leafs acquire this top pairing RHD?

Genuinely curious.

Whoa whoa whoa. This isnt how its done. First you get a list of who the top pairing Ds are in the league not named seth jones. Apparently the leafs dont have any according to many on hfboards. It's really confusing because it appears to depend which team they play for. Guaranteed, if any on the list make it here, they will cease to become top pairing. One of the mysteries of the universe.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That, I believe, is his downfall, wanting to go with offensive-minded D men.

It was more about getting a defenseman who could move the puck up the ice and effectively exit the zone from the right side, since that was a huge weakness that had been heavily exploited by Boston for two playoffs in a row. Also important was the fact that he only makes 2.75m, because Colorado was one of few teams that could afford to eat half of his cap hit.