Post-Game Talk: West Side Story

[Machinehead]

A goalie who's not 6 foot 4 without skates on.

Ok, well, we're not facing Hellebuyck again.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

You can throw whatever intangible, circumstantial factors into this. I'll throw in the other 800-lb elephant that's in the room: we're not as good as other teams at shooting. Just reference the number of "I don't know how that didn't go in" posts in every GDT.

It's not intangible circumstantial factors. It's facts. We just went on a streak where we score 4 or more goals in 7 straight including 6 in 3 straight games and you want to harp on a game where they only scored 1 against a Vezina caliber goalie.

 

[will1066]

Ok, well, we're not facing Hellebuyck again.

It was one game, so I totally get that. Like you pointed out, if this were a playoff series, you definitely need to look at adjustments if you can't beat Hellebuyck with your usual toolbox.

It's not intangible circumstantial factors. It's facts. We just went on a streak where we score 4 or more goals in 7 straight including 6 in 3 straight games and you want to harp on a game where they only scored 1 against a Vezina caliber goalie.

I responded to a Machinehead post and then it became a debate from there. That's not harping.

 

[Kovalev27]

There’s only one way to score on a goalie that’s that sharp and it’s to take away his eyes. We didn’t do enough of that yesterday

I have zero problem with us getting goalied last night. It can happen. I have a problem with our goalie not having any idea where his net or the puck was all night for like the 6th or 7th game in a row

 

[Raspewtin]

quoting myself here because this is always relevant

"Getting no puck luck" doesn't mean every other shot they take was a grade A chance that required elite acrobatics or SOTY reactions to stop. I'm not going to say the Rangers are getting stoned left and right on amazing chances necessarily but just because you "remember" all their shots being bad doesn't mean they aren't still very unlucky. this is the board trying to rationalize why they havent been scoring, but usually the easiest answer is the right one, they just aren't. these streaks happen to every team.

most goalies in the league would not save every shot in a 42 SA performance. because goalies give up bad goals, low percentage goals, average goals that you might sometimes expect a save, or even minutely stoppable goals all the time. most goals are not scored on high percentage, amazing plays, just because most teams don't execute those that often.

 

[Lion Hound]

2nd time the club played the Winnipeg Giants and the results were unfortunately almost identical down to the goal scorers..

10/14 - The Jets beat the Rangers 4-1. Goal scorers were Scheifele 2x, Gagne and Connor
2/20- The Jets beat the Rangers 4-1. Goal scorers were Dubios, Scheifele 2x and Connor.

Going into this one, i was concerned with the size of the forwards on this WPG team. Felt the defense has been a little too lacksidasical. This time around the Rangers poured it on in terms of shots on net, but i also felt like a lot of them weren't high danger chances and when they did get those chances they put it right into Hellebuyck. I don't want to take anything away from the Jets Netminder, he played fantastic. I don't think it was the toughest 51 saves he's ever made.

Tough game for Igor. Weird seeing him struggle. He was so good for the team for a long time now, but he has been having a tough go lately. So many pieces are falling into place for the team but the biggest peice they need is broken right now. Vally thinks they need to play him through it.

Looking at the game summary and seeing only 21 shots on goal you would think the D performed well, but there were some pretty bad lapses. Connor exposed Trouba and Miller really bad on that play where he split the uprights. Blew by them like they were standing still. I feel like the d had been out of position at the wrong times. Too much stick work, not enough physical presence in front of the net. When the playoffs start the net crashers are out in full force. Players looking for those garbage goals. The crease seems like a free zone, and when Igor is letting up rebounds that cant happen. The need to play tighter down low. Forwards also need to help out more.

Rangers struggled VS 3 teams in the Eastern Conference that are relevant in the playoffs. Two of them play a heavy game. Bruins and Jets. Is it a pattern where they don't matchup well or did they just have bad games.

VV the Bruins they are 0-2. Next game is 3/4 right after the trade deadline.
VS the Jets they are 0-2.
VV the Devils they are 1-3. Next game is 3/30.

 

[Kovalev27]

2nd time the club played the Winnipeg Giants and the results were unfortunately almost identical down to the goal scorers..

10/14 - The Jets beat the Rangers 4-1. Goal scorers were Scheifele 2x, Gagne and Connor
2/20- The Jets beat the Rangers 4-1. Goal scorers were Dubios, Scheifele 2x and Connor.

Going into this one, i was concerned with the size of the forwards on this WPG team. Felt the defense has been a little too lacksidasical. This time around the Rangers poured it on in terms of shots on net, but i also felt like a lot of them weren't high danger chances and when they did get those chances they put it right into Hellebuyck. I don't want to take anything away from the Jets Netminder, he played fantastic. I don't think it was the toughest 51 saves he's ever made.

Tough game for Igor. Weird seeing him struggle. He was so good for the team for a long time now, but he has been having a tough go lately. So many pieces are falling into place for the team but the biggest peice they need is broken right now. Vally thinks they need to play him through it.

Looking at the game summary and seeing only 21 shots on goal you would think the D performed well, but there were some pretty bad lapses. Connor exposed Trouba and Miller really bad on that play where he split the uprights. Blew by them like they were standing still. I feel like the d had been out of position at the wrong times. Too much stick work, not enough physical presence in front of the net. When the playoffs start the net crashers are out in full force. Players looking for those garbage goals. The crease seems like a free zone, and when Igor is letting up rebounds that cant happen. The need to play tighter down low. Forwards also need to help out more.

Rangers struggled VS 3 teams in the Eastern Conference that are relevant in the playoffs. Two of them play a heavy game. Bruins and Jets. Is it a pattern where they don't matchup well or did they just have bad games.

VV the Bruins they are 0-2. Next game is 3/4 right after the trade deadline.
VS the Jets they are 0-2.
VV the Devils they are 1-3. Next game is 3/30.

We absolutely dominated the game. Not worried about size. Our D is big and the ones that aren’t play big. We aren’t a team that can’t play heavy.

We threw away two of those bruins and devils games because of bad goaltending. Just like we did Last night. That’s my concern right now

 

[Raspewtin]

Rangers struggled VS 3 teams in the Eastern Conference that are relevant in the playoffs. Two of them play a heavy game. Bruins and Jets. Is it a pattern where they don't matchup well or did they just have bad games.

VV the Bruins they are 0-2. Next game is 3/4 right after the trade deadline.
VS the Jets they are 0-2.
VV the Devils they are 1-3. Next game is 3/30.

The Rangers pounded the Jets every chance they got last night. They did the same to Calgary and Minnesota who are probably the meanest teams in the league. They actually played a good game against Boston and lost cause of extremely untimely goaltending.

Just feels like you're not watching the same game.

 

[Anthony5967]

Do you think this team is contending for the cup? I don't even like our matchup with the Devils. I don't see us getting past them, let alone going deep.

Yes, this team is absolutely good enough to contend for a Cup. Come on. **** the Devils already. Florida was a nice regular season video game offense too. What did it get them? They barely squeaked past Washington and that was because Washington blew that series. Rangers don't blow game three against Tampa and they are probably in the Finals. An experienced championship group showed them the door in Tampa. Seriously, the fans that sit there and don't think this team is good enough to contend for the Cup are nuts.

 

[Fitzy]

Can't bring myself to feel sorry for the Rangers after this affair. Any recent 7 game win streak, especially one with come-from-behind victories, means not only did you play well but you also got a fair share of lucky breaks.

If we got all our bad fortune that we were due out in just one game, that's a good thing, so long as it doesn't become a habit.

 

[Anthony5967]

Look, when a goalie is on their game, you have to take away their eyes. He saw every single shot. Every single one. That's on the forwards not willing to pay the price. We got outplayoffed tonight. Not just outgoalied.

As for Shesty, look he will never make excuses. I get the whole he had a baby thing and he's not sleeping that well. But to me, he's lacking explosiveness. He's not getting anywhere near the same push off as we've seen. He's not getting back to his feet with the same ease. He's 100% fighting off a really annoying groin injury or something like it. I have no idea. But I know he's fighting something beyond the puck right now. It's a problem. He's going to have to fight through it. But it's a problem.

Tarasenko -- when he's in space and has the puck he can make things happen. But the coasting is insane. I hope he doesn't coast in the playoffs. But it's very frustrating watch everyone else bust their asses and he's just floating out there.

I've noticed this with Tarasenko far too much now. That is why I don't know if playing with Panarin and Trocheck will work for long. Trocheck is the only guy willing to pay the price on that line. The others are perimeter players. Vesey is solid with Panarin and Tro because 2/3 of those guys will work the corners and go to the guts of the action to make plays happen.

 

[will1066]

We absolutely dominated the game. Not worried about size. Our D is big and the ones that aren’t play big. We aren’t a team that can’t play heavy.

We threw away two of those bruins and devils games because of bad goaltending. Just like we did Last night. That’s my concern right now

The Rangers pounded the Jets every chance they got last night. They did the same to Calgary and Minnesota who are probably the meanest teams in the league. They actually played a good game against Boston and lost cause of extremely untimely goaltending.

Just feels like you're not watching the same game.

Yeah, it was untimely goaltending, saves that should've been made. But they weren't exactly 50-foot floaters either. Those goals came off good chances. You can dominate a game but also have lapses where opportunistic teams will take advantage. What @Lion Hound said isn't without merit.

 

[Anthony5967]

They've been riding Chytil's elevated shooting percentage and that's now coming to an end. The kid line is dumb. We're the only team in the league where our young players can't play with our veterans and vice versa.

Those three need to learn how to play with veterans without sh***** their pants and the veterans need to learn to play with them without treating them like they have cooties.

The whole concept of having an untouchable "kid line" is absurd and anyone that supports it is equally absurd.

Kreider/Zibanejad/Kakko was literally one of the best lines in the NHL. If that line somehow was not untouchable then the kid line shouldn't be either.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Trocheck-Tarasenko
Lafreniere-Chytil-Goodrow
Motte-4C-Vesey

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Rangers pounded the Jets every chance they got last night. They did the same to Calgary and Minnesota who are probably the meanest teams in the league. They actually played a good game against Boston and lost cause of extremely untimely goaltending.

Just feels like you're not watching the same game.

Not only that, the Jets are in the West and the Bruins don't even play a heavy game lol.

They have a heavy 4th line but their top 9 is not heavy at all.

 

[JohnC]

I should be used to Hockey Fans Evaluate Hockey Game at Near 3rd Grade Level by now but alas, here we are.

 

[Machinehead]

Not only that, the Jets are in the West and the Bruins don't even play a heavy game lol.

They have a heavy 4th line but their top 9 is not heavy at all.

They haven't for a long time. People just associate the Bruins with heavy for some reason. 2011 is arguably the last year that was true and even that year, they were like 23rd in hits. It's a meme.

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah, why should we ever expect the schedule mker to give us a nice game on, day off, game on, day off. You know, like other teams get. We play 4 in 6, and then off for at least 3 or 4 days. No consistency, no fluidity, no rhythm.


We do, but literally every game is decided by 1 goal.

We crushed them in Detroit earlier this year

 

[Lion Hound]

The Rangers pounded the Jets every chance they got last night. They did the same to Calgary and Minnesota who are probably the meanest teams in the league. They actually played a good game against Boston and lost cause of extremely untimely goaltending.

Just feels like you're not watching the same game.

Just pointing out the results vs Eastern Conference clubs that play heavy.

And yes, they did put a lot of shots on net. No doubt. Didnt get the bounces. It happens.

We absolutely dominated the game. Not worried about size. Our D is big and the ones that aren’t play big. We aren’t a team that can’t play heavy.

We threw away two of those bruins and devils games because of bad goaltending. Just like we did Last night. That’s my concern right now

Certainly hope that's the case. We will see soon enough.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Can't bring myself to feel sorry for the Rangers after this affair. Any recent 7 game win streak, especially one with come-from-behind victories, means not only did you play well but you also got a fair share of lucky breaks.

If we got all our bad fortune that we were due out in just one game, that's a good thing, so long as it doesn't become a habit.

It's just the law of averages during a long season. They played .800 hockey for 2.5 months so things just aren't going to go their way sometimes. Some people understand this and take it in stride and some people panic when they lose and have to over analyze every loss. Boston just went through a period where they lost 4 of 5, all in regulation, OMG. They have now won 4 in a row, go figure. The Rangers are locked into 3rd place in the Metro at the worst. It's just practice for the next 25 games.

 

[Machinehead]

You know who's a heavy team? The Rangers.

None of the teams being described as "heavy" that we should supposedly be concerned about hit a lot or take a lot of penalties enough to move from the pack. Where's the evidence that they're heavy?

This is why the stats nerds laugh at "heavy" or "grit" or whatever we're calling it.

It's not so much that it doesn't matter, it's that the claims are almost always unfounded. All the teams named above are teams we got goalie'd against at least once. People have this really, really weird habit of associating perceived grit with shooting percentage. It tracks 1:1 almost every time it comes up.

We can have the discussion about shooting better, although we're just coming off scoring a million goals, so there's that, but the heaviness thing just isn't there.

 

[Raspewtin]

You know who's a heavy team? The Rangers.

View attachment 654138

None of the teams being described as "heavy" that we should supposedly be concerned about hit a lot or take a lot of penalties enough to move from the pack. Where's the evidence that they're heavy?

This is why the stats nerds laugh at "heavy" or "grit" or whatever we're calling it.

It's not so much that it doesn't matter, it's that the claims are almost always unfounded. All the teams named above are teams we got goalie'd against at least once. People have this really, really weird habit of associating perceived grit with shooting percentage. It tracks 1:1 almost every time it comes up.

We can have the discussion about shooting better, although we're just coming off scoring a million goals, so there's that, but the heaviness thing just isn't there.

Take note that there are exactly two playoff teams listed here is heavier than the Rangers and it's Pittsburgh and the Isles who are not making the playoffs barring insane luck. That's, all playoff teams, not just Eastern.

 

[Machinehead]

Take note that there are exactly two playoff teams listed here is heavier than the Rangers and it's Pittsburgh and the Isles who are not making the playoffs barring insane luck. That's, all playoff teams, not just Eastern.

That tracks since good teams don't really have to hit. The Rangers are the only "contender" that hits a lot because, I think, we actually go out of our way to do it.

That makes us, if you wanna go on the basis of voluntary hitting, arguably the most physical team in the league.

So like, what do we want?

 

[Machinehead]

Looking at the chart, Boston does hit quite a bit for a team that always has the puck, but they're not more physical than we are.

 

[Kocur26]

 

[will1066]

You know who's a heavy team? The Rangers.

View attachment 654138

None of the teams being described as "heavy" that we should supposedly be concerned about hit a lot or take a lot of penalties enough to move from the pack. Where's the evidence that they're heavy?

This is why the stats nerds laugh at "heavy" or "grit" or whatever we're calling it.

It's not so much that it doesn't matter, it's that the claims are almost always unfounded. All the teams named above are teams we got goalie'd against at least once. People have this really, really weird habit of associating perceived grit with shooting percentage. It tracks 1:1 almost every time it comes up.

We can have the discussion about shooting better, although we're just coming off scoring a million goals, so there's that, but the heaviness thing just isn't there.

I'm also laughing at this chart but ironically.

It's fallacy to associate "heavy" with just penalties taken and hits given. Maybe the correct word to describe what needed to be done last night, as an in-game adjustment, isn't "heavy". Multiple posters have already talked about blocking the goalie's eyes. That's not "heavy," maybe it's "heady." Don't misconstrue this as a denial that Hellebuyck stoned us, which he did.

During the first intermission, Vally talked about taking away the goalie's eyes, commented that Kreider was in front, which was good, but peeled off too soon, which was not good. He talked about this.