Post-Game Talk: West Side Story

[Machinehead]

On a guy who covers 95% of the net. We didn't make it difficult for him to track the puck.

This is what a high-danger scoring chance is.

 

[will1066]

This is what a high-danger scoring chance is.

What's your point, then? You seemed to imply that it was a shooting issue.

It's one thing to make it difficult to track a puck going east-west and another when it's on the way to you. The only goal last night was when Hellebuyck had to be *completely* taken out of the play by lateral movement like 1 foot in front him.

 

[Boris Zubov]

There’s a Patsy’s in Paterson, NJ and it’s one of the best pizzas. It rivals New Haven, John’s on Bleecker. Portnoy gave it a 8.2 then changed it to 8.9. It’s excellent pizza. They cook it in 2 ovens, there’s 0 flop. It’s almost to the point of too crispy. I highly recommend anyone in the NJ/NY area to try Patsy’s. Get it half pepperoni. Allow me to hit all of my fellow HFNYR peeps up with some education here. Hormel Rosa Grande is the best pepperoni out there on the market. You can find it as a stick in some grocery stores. It cups up and gets crispy and traps the oils. Patsy’s uses this pepperoni. I’m telling you go there one day and bring cash.

I saw that review & it looks awesome...just a bit out of my way at the moment living in central Connecticut.

I'm not a pepperoni guy however. I stick with the cheese....the only thing I change up is the style...sicilian, grandma, magherita, or standard regular slices. Toppings do nothing for me.

 

[Kovalev27]

Carp only shows up when he can bad mouth a player with no repercussions.



Also he’s probably reading this so Hi Rick!



Just replying to the latest unhinged Kocur post

I stopped following him. He’s a grumpy old man at this point nothing more. Never tweets anything remotely positive. He’s turned into grandpa Simpson

 

[Machinehead]

What's your point, then? You seemed to imply that it was a shooting issue.

I'm (not) implying that it was a goalie stealing the game issue.

This always comes up whenever we have these games. People say we didn't get to "the greasy areas" and then take issue when the number of high-danger chances are posted.

High-danger chances are already a measure of how many shots came from those areas. They just didn't go in.

Without fail, you can measure how "soft" a team played on here by their shooting percentage.

 

[Kovalev27]

That third goal with shestys skate on the outside of the post when making his lousy push across is so so bad I don’t even know how he’s gotten to this point of technically being so lost.

Just a brutal performance by Igor. He’s gotta play a lot more hockey than he’s been playing and figure this out

 

[will1066]

I'm (not) implying that it was a goalie stealing the game issue.

This always comes up whenever we have these games. People say we didn't get to "the greasy areas" and then take issue when the number of high-danger chances are posted.

High-danger chances are already a measure of how many shots came from those areas. They just didn't go in.

Without fail, you can measure how "soft" a team played on here by their shooting percentage.

I didn't dispute that they got HDSCs, got into greasy areas. I totally agree that against a different goalie, more of those chances would have been goals. You go up against Big John Studd in goal and he's stopping what you normally shoot in, so maybe try something different instead of trying to the same thing 50 times that doesn't work, which is called HELL-ebuyck.

 

[Machinehead]

I didn't dispute that they got HDSCs, got into greasy areas. I totally agree that against a different goalie, more of those chances would have been goals. You go up against Big John Studd in goal and he's stopping what you normally shoot in, so maybe try something different instead of trying to the same thing 50 times that doesn't work, which is called HELL-ebuyck.

What should they try?

According to Natural Stat Trick, we had 14 high-danger scoring chances. They use a simple distance parameter, so those 14 shots were either taken or last touched by a Ranger from right in front of Hellebuyck. Somebody had to be in the dirty areas. 14 is a lot.

According to Vally, we had 12. He measures it differently. He uses reaction time for the goaltender. I think a high-danger chance is <0.5 seconds between shot and set. So it's either tipped, screened, broken play, traditional high-danger (the distance was so close that he couldn't react), or a rush chance. Inherently, this means that 12 times, he couldn't track the puck. 12 is a lot.

We both shot from tough areas and took away his ability to track according to a guy who played the position at the highest level. Sometimes goalies just stop pucks. You can't do anything. You can't make them not make saves. That's why they're goalies and they steal games when they're hot.

 

[NYRfan85]

All I have to say about that game is, #37 was a brick wall on a mission. Forget it and move on.

 

[will1066]

What should they try?

According to Natural Stat Trick, we had 14 high-danger scoring chances. They use a simple distance parameter, so those 14 shots were either taken or last touched by a Ranger from right in front of Hellebuyck. Somebody had to be in the dirty areas. 14 is a lot.

According to Vally, we had 12. He measures it differently. He uses reaction time for the goaltender. I think a high-danger chance is <0.5 seconds between shot and set. So it's either tipped, screened, broken play, traditional high-danger (the distance was so close that he couldn't react), or a rush chance. Inherently, this means that 12 times, he couldn't track the puck. 12 is a lot.

We both shot from tough areas and took away his ability to track according to a guy who played the position at the highest level. Sometimes goalies just stop pucks. You can't do anything. You can't make them not make saves. That's why they're goalies and they steal games when they're hot.

So you're saying if they can't put up more screens in front of the guy, they can also try to get him off his game, give him some bumps to provoke him, maybe a bit of a snow shower. See Mike Smith, another big goaltender who crumbled at a little bit of gamesmanship, as an example.

Also, if you can't track the puck, you can still stop the puck if you're playing positionally sound.

You play to win the game. You don't play to accept that you can't beat a guy.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Exaggeration. Rangers had plenty of quality looks and second chances that just straight up wouldn’t go in. He stole the game - plain and simple.

I never said they didn't....however, I can't remember one time the Rangers took a shot with a crowd in front of him and, as Sam and The Mouth commented, he always seemed to be in the right spot at the right time.

 

[SA16]

We traded the wrong goalie

 

[Machinehead]

So you're saying if they can't put up more screens in front of the guy, they can also try to get him off his game, give him some bumps to provoke him, maybe a bit of a snow shower. See Mike Smith, another big goaltender who crumbled at a little bit of gamesmanship, as an example.

Also, if you can't track the puck, you can still stop the puck if you're playing positionally sound.

You play to win the game. You don't play to accept that you can't beat a guy.

Hellebuyck has 83.9 goals saved above average in his career. He's evidently not easy to rattle.

In a series, you can look at tape and try to find something. And sure, if that doesn't work, run into him.

In a single game, absolutely you have to accept that sometimes you just can't beat somebody. 100 point teams are going to lose 32 times.

 

[Larrybiv]

Imo yes I understand why you wouldnt but I think this might be one of our best chances with this core, despite the fact the east is an absolute bloodbath

Either way you look at it, if we go deep it will be some very exciting, nerve racking, nail biting hockey. WHEN we reach the finals, it'll somehow feel like a letdown.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The goaltending sucked, yes, but look at their goals again. There's some merit behind Vally's comments about them being tough chances on Shesty. The defensive coverage has been shoddy the last few games and it has to get cleaned up. Miller and Schneider are still both jittery as f*** sometimes, and the first goal last night was started when Trouba did a pinch/hit attempt and took himself out of the play going the other way, which he and Fox both have done more frequently lately.

Teams are going to get their looks, especially good teams. It's the NHL. Winnipeg had 21 SOG and a few were indeed high quality and they scored on a high % of them. We did not and we had more of them. We can pick apart every loss. Players do make mistakes against other professional players that are getting paid too. The D does have some real brain farts some nights. Some of those errors the last few games may be fatigue with the travel and playing 4 games in 6 nights. The team just played .800 hockey over the last 2.5 months and didn't lose a game in regulation for a month. They lost. Big deal. They will also lose again. Not worried.

 

[will1066]

Hellebuyck has 83.9 goals saved above average in his career. He's evidently not easy to rattle.

In a series, you can look at tape and try to find something. And sure, if that doesn't work, run into him.

In a single game, absolutely you have to accept that sometimes you just can't beat somebody. 100 point teams are going to lose 32 times.

For fun, I went to see how the Devils tagged Hellebuyck for 3 the day before. First goal was a near-identical goalmouth lateral pass like Tarasenko's. Second goal, Hellebuyck got beat because of a screen (by his own teammate) on a snap shot. Third goal, he was beat on a 1 on 1 chance on a feed that came from behind the net.

 

[Machinehead]

For fun, I went to see how the Devils tagged Hellebuyck for 3 the day before. First goal was a near-identical goalmouth lateral pass like Tarasenko's. Second goal, Hellebuyck got beat because of a screen (by his own teammate) on a snap shot. Third goal, he was beat on a 1 on 1 chance on a feed that came from behind the net.

So he didn't stop those and he stopped ours. That's hockey.

 

[Larrybiv]

I just cannot for the life of me understand why the rest of the lineup can routinely be thrown into the blender but the kid line, which is a vastly inferior line to Kreider/Zibanejad/Kakko, is the one that's untouchable.

If the goal is: "we're keeping the line that has generally been the best together and not touching it" then Kreider/Zibanejad/Kakko should be put back together and never touched again for the rest of our lives.

These boards have been fooled by Chytil shooting at a ridiculous rate into believing Gallant defaults to the kid line because it's a good line and he loves the kid line. Everyone has collectively forgotten what we once knew at the beginning of the season which is that the kid line exists as a vehicle for Gallant to play other, more experienced forwards above them and more than them.

Only a few more games of average shooting Chytil and we will be back to the kid line playing circa 13 minutes per night and doing nothing and then everyone will start asking what happened to Laf/Chytil/Kakko and why do they all suck again.

Surely sounds to me that you so desperately want to be right. Isn't that like wanting to be right is more important than the kid line's success?
Yes, I DO think he put them together again because of all the clamouring about it, while ALSO getting what he really wanted.
Just seems they play well together, they read off one another and despite "Chytil's surge recently" they are still dictating play. So, whats wrong with that?
They have 3 playing well, putting KK on the top line isn't that much different improving the top line, but then you risk losing Laf and Chytil playing w/o KK. imo

 

[cheech70]

Schieffle and Connor are a very good duo and they showed it last night

 

[Larrybiv]

I stand corrected Leo

Yeah, why should we ever expect the schedule mker to give us a nice game on, day off, game on, day off. You know, like other teams get. We play 4 in 6, and then off for at least 3 or 4 days. No consistency, no fluidity, no rhythm.

I dunno man. But don’t we usually fair well against Detroit?

We do, but literally every game is decided by 1 goal.

 

[will1066]

Teams are going to get their looks, especially good teams. It's the NHL. Winnipeg had 21 SOG and a few were indeed high quality and they scored on a high % of them. We did not and we had more of them. We can pick apart every loss. Players do make mistakes against other professional players that are getting paid too. The D does have some real brain farts some nights. Some of those errors the last few games may be fatigue with the travel and playing 4 games in 6 nights. The team just played .800 hockey over the last 2.5 months and didn't lose a game in regulation for a month. They lost. Big deal. They will also lose again. Not worried.

So he didn't stop those and he stopped ours. That's hockey.

You can throw whatever intangible, circumstantial factors into this. I'll throw in the other 800-lb elephant that's in the room: we're not as good as other teams at shooting. Just reference the number of "I don't know how that didn't go in" posts in every GDT.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm (not) implying that it was a goalie stealing the game issue.

This always comes up whenever we have these games. People say we didn't get to "the greasy areas" and then take issue when the number of high-danger chances are posted.

High-danger chances are already a measure of how many shots came from those areas. They just didn't go in.

Without fail, you can measure how "soft" a team played on here by their shooting percentage.

Yup, happened a bunch yesterday from people I'd consider to be very knowledgable posters who should know better.

 

[Machinehead]

You can throw whatever intangible, circumstantial factors into this. I'll throw in the other 800-lb elephant that's in the room: we're not as good as other teams at shooting. Just reference the number of "I don't know how that didn't go in" posts in every GDT.

Well, if you're going to value single-game samples this much, what about the seven games in a row we scored at least six goals?

The Rangers are 13th in shooting percentage so we're pretty run-of-the-mill at it. You can't go by GDT posts. Absolutely every fanbase in hockey thinks their team should be shooting 55%. They all think their powerplay sucks and they all "always lose to backups."

 

[Mike in Houston]

When was the last time Igor actually spoke with the beat reporters after a game? I can't recall to be honest other than the "the goalie played shit" game.

 

[will1066]

Well, if you're going to value single-game samples this much, what about the seven games in a row we scored at least six goals?

The Rangers are 13th in shooting percentage so we're pretty run-of-the-mill at it. You can't go by GDT posts. Absolutely every fanbase in hockey thinks their team should be shooting 55%. They all think their powerplay sucks and they all "always lose to backups."

A goalie who's not 6 foot 4 without skates on.