Post-Game Talk: West Side Story
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Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
They're not much bigger than us.
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The teams are basically the same size. Differences are marginal. This shouldn't fail the "eye test." The Rangers have a huge forward group on paper.
I don't like that the stats people are held to standards such as "I don't like your parameters." Well, sorry? "Heavy" is not an objective thing to measure.
What does it mean? They don't hit more than us. They're not bigger than us. They don't shoot more than we do so there's no indication they have the puck more. Is it getting to the middle of the ice or the dirty areas? If they did that better than we did, they would score more than we do. Vally has developed an entire model on the middle of the ice and has repeatedly said the Rangers are one of the best at it, but that doesn't count either because analytics bad.
It's such a ridiculous standard. Meanwhile if you're not an analytics guy, you can just say anything, even if it's patently false, like the above example.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
I gotta be honest, I don't think you guys can.
I'm about to call the the guys that negotiate with jumpers because our 10 game point streak ended.
TopShelfSnipes
Registered User
Late to the party, but my takeaways from last night.
-Vally nailed it re: Shesterkin. Two fluke/lucky goals, but played well in the first. Came off his angles later in the game and the last 2 goals were avoidable.
-Panarin had a bad game last night. Too many forced passes again. Tarasenko and Trocheck were the best forwards last night, though. Keep that line together.
-Still don't love Vesey with 20 and 93. I don't have a proposal to fix this unless Krav magically gets in the lineup with these two and has discovered offense, or they make another trade. The comment his pass was too slow on the 2-on-1 in the postgame was literally exactly 40 minutes after I said the same thing to my wife in real time. Vesey is very good for what he is, but he will never capitalize on the chances the other attributes help him create. Ideally there'd be another winger on that line.
-Fox had a couple chances to rip it from 10-20 feet out last night and kept taking the puck low. He's got to be more decisive in shooting as he was earlier in the year.
-Hellebuyck is a big goalie who relies mostly on positioning and accurate puck tracking. Besides the majority of shots being from bad/predictable angles or low percentage scoring areas which has already been beaten to death by Vally and earlier posters in the thread, I will say he's someone who you can beat if you can make him move - and not just talking about post to post. The Rangers took entirely too many shots at the lower and middle thirds of the net last night. If Kreider roofs that centering pass far side, it's a goal (instead of a great glove save) - granted, tough to do snapping off a pass, but worth noting. If Laf goes top dog blocker side on his 3rd period scoring chance, that's in (he looked skyward after he shot it because he knew he missed his target). There were several other similar plays like that. If Kreider stays at the side of the net in the second instead of continuing across the crease to the middle, he deflects the puck in weak side instead of into Hellebuyck's pad. Make the big goalie move, whether it's lifting his glove or blocker up to rob top dog, or whether it's going fully across the netmouth on a centering pass vs. to the middle.
-The powerplay was still too committed to the top of the circle cross-ice pass last night. The Jets were conceding cross-ice passes down low all night where all that would've been needed is enough grit to battle for loose pucks in the slot and at the weak side. The Rangers didn't try those nearly enough. Most wouldn't work, but on the rare ones that do, you probably get multiple goals.
-Update on Jake Leschyshyn. Still useless. Probably the most useful thing he did last night was get pushed into Hellebuyck and get his face sat on. Tells you how bad this guy is. AHL NOW!
-For Kakko's next contract, I'd like to see the Rangers build in a clause that says he gets $1,000 every time he one-times the puck from the right circle on the PP. Had at least 3 chances to do it last night and didn't send it. Overall, that unit is decent when they get in the zone, but the forward group has to be more willing to cut to the middle and shoot, or shoot off the pass. Too much "cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-point shot from the D" with that unit still. Need to improve their shot attempts/60 on the man advantage.
-First unit was better when they tried looks to Kreider at the net mouth. When they fell into top-of-the-circle crossice pass, they struggled. They need to recognize when a team is not giving them that and try something different earlier in the game.
-Don't have too many complaints about the officiating last night other than the non-call where Goodrow was interfered with. But the way the PP was and the final score, it wouldn'tve mattered.
-Vally nailed it re: Shesterkin. Two fluke/lucky goals, but played well in the first. Came off his angles later in the game and the last 2 goals were avoidable.
-Panarin had a bad game last night. Too many forced passes again. Tarasenko and Trocheck were the best forwards last night, though. Keep that line together.
-Still don't love Vesey with 20 and 93. I don't have a proposal to fix this unless Krav magically gets in the lineup with these two and has discovered offense, or they make another trade. The comment his pass was too slow on the 2-on-1 in the postgame was literally exactly 40 minutes after I said the same thing to my wife in real time. Vesey is very good for what he is, but he will never capitalize on the chances the other attributes help him create. Ideally there'd be another winger on that line.
-Fox had a couple chances to rip it from 10-20 feet out last night and kept taking the puck low. He's got to be more decisive in shooting as he was earlier in the year.
-Hellebuyck is a big goalie who relies mostly on positioning and accurate puck tracking. Besides the majority of shots being from bad/predictable angles or low percentage scoring areas which has already been beaten to death by Vally and earlier posters in the thread, I will say he's someone who you can beat if you can make him move - and not just talking about post to post. The Rangers took entirely too many shots at the lower and middle thirds of the net last night. If Kreider roofs that centering pass far side, it's a goal (instead of a great glove save) - granted, tough to do snapping off a pass, but worth noting. If Laf goes top dog blocker side on his 3rd period scoring chance, that's in (he looked skyward after he shot it because he knew he missed his target). There were several other similar plays like that. If Kreider stays at the side of the net in the second instead of continuing across the crease to the middle, he deflects the puck in weak side instead of into Hellebuyck's pad. Make the big goalie move, whether it's lifting his glove or blocker up to rob top dog, or whether it's going fully across the netmouth on a centering pass vs. to the middle.
-The powerplay was still too committed to the top of the circle cross-ice pass last night. The Jets were conceding cross-ice passes down low all night where all that would've been needed is enough grit to battle for loose pucks in the slot and at the weak side. The Rangers didn't try those nearly enough. Most wouldn't work, but on the rare ones that do, you probably get multiple goals.
-Update on Jake Leschyshyn. Still useless. Probably the most useful thing he did last night was get pushed into Hellebuyck and get his face sat on. Tells you how bad this guy is. AHL NOW!
-For Kakko's next contract, I'd like to see the Rangers build in a clause that says he gets $1,000 every time he one-times the puck from the right circle on the PP. Had at least 3 chances to do it last night and didn't send it. Overall, that unit is decent when they get in the zone, but the forward group has to be more willing to cut to the middle and shoot, or shoot off the pass. Too much "cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-cycle-point shot from the D" with that unit still. Need to improve their shot attempts/60 on the man advantage.
-First unit was better when they tried looks to Kreider at the net mouth. When they fell into top-of-the-circle crossice pass, they struggled. They need to recognize when a team is not giving them that and try something different earlier in the game.
-Don't have too many complaints about the officiating last night other than the non-call where Goodrow was interfered with. But the way the PP was and the final score, it wouldn'tve mattered.
Generally agree with this. It's the measuring stick for pizza. If you can't make a decent cheese slice, I don't really care what else you can make. Gotta try the basics first and be satisfied, then branch out from there.
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
I thought...well I know ....that our D tried to do too much last night and it came back and bit them in the ass . We also have to slow these guys down when they attack our blueline.....the floaters we have up front have to start moving their legs and do a bit better job of taking that 3rd guy on the rush....
will1066
Fonz Drury
- Oct 12, 2008
- 44,126
- 60,413
I want you and duhmetreE to join me as we go to Machinehead, puckluck and Uninstaaled's turf and challenge them 3 on 3... not hockey, but a West Side Story-styled pretend fight that's more a dance, with metal-looking but actually plastic knives.
TopShelfSnipes
Registered User
Said this re: 2012 and it bears repeating here as well. The biggest thing that will help them in the playoffs is they need to finish off the mediocre and above average but not elite teams. None of this 7 games to beat everyone crap this franchise has become notorious for.
I'd really be curious what the Tampa series would've looked like if the Rangers closed out Carolina and Pittsburgh in 5 each and had a chance to rest.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
This wouldn't be fair. You and I are the only ones who have a concept of working.
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
will1066
Fonz Drury
- Oct 12, 2008
- 44,126
- 60,413
You better dust off that Betamax or VHS camcorder that's in your closet and record it for us for prosperity.
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
I'm kind of waiting to see the playoff charts when it is over .
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
Geesh....pretty hard to count out the Bruins that easy . Leafs have no goalies...if any team is destined to fall fast it is them and by them going in 5 games to TB....that makes TB that much tougher against the B's .....whcih would be a great series . We'll hopefully stay healthy and pray that Shesty plays well.....and we should get into the semis....but....anything can happen .
TheGortonConspiracy
Wow its a nice GM
- Jan 18, 2012
- 33,826
- 50,833
They are not the same size and you're using an article from October. We lost a lot of size since then.
Their team is bigger. It doesn't mean we're small it just means their team is bigger.
They are not the same size and you're using an article from October. We lost a lot of size since then.
Their team is bigger. It doesn't mean we're small it just means their team is bigger.
Winnipeg as they stand right now
6'2" 202 on average
NYR as they stand right now
6'2" 199 on average.
Remember this is including Kravtsov who isn't playing and weighs like 3 pounds. If they swapped Krav for Bjugstad they'd be one of the tallest and heaviest teams in the league.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 33,826
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that also include Harpur
They are bigger than us. Their forwards are bigger, they even did a skit on it during the broadcast.
We have Kreider and a decent size group. Our D is big with Trouba, KAM, Schneider, Mikkola
Either way I don't know how I got sucked into this. We skated around them all night. I dont care about the size discrepancy unless we're getting bullied. I care that we didn't simplify the game to get traffic and shots from the point.
Dude did you WATCH the first game?
Three of their guys got smoked including the all timer Trouba threw on Kadri. They got smoked in that game and honestly its a blow out win if Halak stops 2 softies and the league defines what a kicking motion is.
I don't know why some people want to act like this is a soft team that can't handle "heavy" hockey. They give WAY more than they take.
Bruins aren't heavy either. They're softer than we are in their top 9 and certainly are in their D.
Its not like they struggled to withstand Winnipeg's "heavy" assault yesterday either. They fired 30 more shots on goal and doubled them up on quality chances.
The High Danger Shot statistics clearly fail to account for the Walrus Factor Against relative to shot position. Stationary Shot A against Immovable Gigantic Walrus Tracking the Puck is not the same as Shot A *from the exact same point* against Goalie Desperately Lunging EW to cover the Net.
How many so called High Danger Chances have the Rangers had in the two games against the Jets and how many of those have *actually* been high danger chances, as opposed to just counting as HD chances because they were taken from a point on the ice counted as high danger?
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Because you've been corrected with facts and you think you're having an opinion-based argument.
Gordon Bombay
Remptar
- Oct 13, 2006
- 2,418
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Love how Joe basically says the refs can't even call the penalty correct.
And yeah, that should be a fine. Don't think it was intentional, so no suspension, but you can't do that to everyone lol
- Jul 28, 2011
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Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Main culprits are our two toughest defensemen.
You don't handle forechecks by being "big enough." You handle forechecks with speed, passing, and elusiveness.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 33,826
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Corrected with facts that Winnipeg is bigger? They are literally bigger. You must be confusing me with someone else.
It’s also funny coming from the guy who made a chart with penalties and hits? Lol
Your arrogance on things you know little about is impressive
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