Prospect Info: Way too early 2020 draft options
- Thread starter emptyNedder
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spockBokk
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- Sep 8, 2013
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Right, I really want them to draft Jarvis, though not sure he’ll be there.
From what I’ve read, I like Holloway or Mercer over Quinn, but I wouldn’t be too disappointed if he’s the pick.
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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Two things on this:
He said they didn’t know what they are going to do and there is an exception to every rule (no goalie and no defender in the first round). He also said he doesn’t make picks but pushes certain players.
while we go offense more than likely, I don’t like TD coming out saying that. Chicago and Edmonton would love Askarov. It takes away from our negotiating power to trade down 1-3 slots to get extra darts.
I don't like that philosophy at all. If he's at our pick at #13 and a top 10 talent, you should take him. To reach for a guy that shoots the puck because "reasons" is setting yourself up for failure.
spockBokk
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While I can see both sides, I think with so many options this year for goalie upgrades I think they may think they can “buy” a goalie vs spending 13OA on one. I personally don’t want them to take Askarov, but won’t be gutted if they do.
That's a little disappointing...but as long as we get some sort of organizational acknowledgement in action this offseason that we need to change philosophy on goaltending because this "carousel of value-acquisition veteran goaltending" isn't ever going yield sufficient netminding to be a real competitor. It may have yielded "good" and "not the problem" in our two recent playoff appearances...but it's "not good enough to compete for a Cup."
Teams that win Cups get better tending than we've had.
Also, anyone professional who believes "goalies are voodoo" is intellectually-lazy about a key position on winning teams and should be fired. So...let's stop with that BS.
(If we're not considering Askarov, I hope we have the sense to draft Drew Commesso then. His game is tailored well to our style of play; it's "quiet": He doesn't give up a lot of second-chances, there is a conservation of movement, he shows strong hockey sense and exceptional puck-tracking, and plays the puck well. He doesn't show the athleticism to make a lot of highlight-reel flashy saves, but he rarely needs to...he makes the first save well and doesn't find himself out of position.)
There are a lot of options to get a goalie at UFA, but most are being cast off for a reason. Lehner and Markstrom are good options, but they are likely not to make it to UFA. So with them off the board, which UFA actually looks good?
I'm struggling to see how they think having a guy like Hart on an ELC wouldn't be fantastic. It allows you to contemplate a play for Laine like they seem to have inquired about. If you have to pay a UFA goalie, that goes out the window.
Could be gamesmanship. Could be that Dundon wants to improve franchise value now rather than 3-4+ years down the road. Maybe he prefers buying his goalie solution in UFA or trade.
Gunler is a scorer too. As I said in my last post, I think Dundon would be all over Quinn. Mercer and Holloway aren't really that much of scorers. I'd guess they have keyed in on one of Quinn, Jarvis, Gunler, Zary, or a falling Holtz.
Gunler is a scorer too. As I said in my last post, I think Dundon would be all over Quinn. Mercer and Holloway aren't really that much of scorers. I'd guess they have keyed in on one of Quinn, Jarvis, Gunler, Zary, or a falling Holtz.
Nikishin Go Boom
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I hope that we convince Edmonton or Chicago to give up something good to move up to take him. Whether that is another dart or an exempt prospect.
Meh. He hedged. Also, if you want something that other teams behind you want, you want them thinking that it's going to drop to them. If they feel that they have to trade up, then you're screwed as most pick swaps occur while on the clock. There's no recourse if Edmonton, Toronto or Chicago trades up to #12.
Joe McGrath
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Dundon paid $6million for that pick. Askari is at least 3 years away from getting any of that value back. He might not even own the team by the time he’s ready. His position doesn’t surprise me in the least (as I’ve previously stated).
That doesn’t mean DW doesn’t take him anyway and just feed him some bullshit about him being ready in 2 years because he’s the best goalie prospect ever.
That doesn’t mean DW doesn’t take him anyway and just feed him some bullshit about him being ready in 2 years because he’s the best goalie prospect ever.
Nikishin Go Boom
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Franchise growth isn’t that high over 4 years time. Its a long term 10+ play, like real estate.
BB88
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Pretty much anyone you pick at 13 is 3 years away from being impact player
AhosDatsyukian
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SKA has most of their starters out due to COVID infections/quarantine. Askarov was supposed to start both games this week but is quarantined for 2 weeks. Won't see him play again before the draft.
AhosDatsyukian
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Does this not bother anyone else here, having an owner this involved? Let the experts that you've hired do their job Tom... Overall very happy with Dundon's first few years as owner but hopefully this doesn't become an issue with him overstepping his bounds with regards to hockey ops.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
If you can go back and point to the post where you thought Anton Khudobin was the answer for Dallas, then do that. Show your math.
Of all the positions in hockey, goalies are by far the hardest to predict long-term. While it's true that goalies picked in the first can do reasonably well, the drop-off for other positions past the first round is huge, and the drop-off for goalies is minimal. Let's look at highest save percentages this year, minimum 20 games played:
Khudobin, .930, 7th round. (Note: we had that guy, and he couldn't beat out Cam Ward.)
Rask, .929, 1st round.
Kuemper, .928, 6th round. (Note: rumored that we're trying to trade for that guy right now.)
Allen, .927, 2nd round. (Note: despite a high save percentage this year, he's been savaged in the past.)
Francouz, .923, undrafted!
Merzlikins, .923, 3rd round.
Hellebuyck, .922, 5th round.
Jarry, .921, 2nd round.
Raanta, .921, undrafted!
Bishop, .920, 3rd round.
Lehner, .920, 2nd round. (Note: he's been playing on one-year contracts to prove himself.)
There's your top goalies in the NHL this year. There are more of them that were *undrafted* than were selected in the first round.
So when we say "goalies are voodoo", that's what we mean. Claiming that drafting a goalie in the first round is the optimal strategy, and any other strategy is "intellectual laziness", is bullshit.
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Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
I doubt he's making that decision. I'm pretty sure he's got a team he trusts making that decision, and he's reflecting what the team has said. That's how this front office works.
Nikishin Go Boom
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How many owners just sit back and don’t chime in from time to time? I sure as heck wouldn’t just sit back when I have half a billion on the line. He isn’t directing movements just providing input. As long as the organization isn’t but with yes people but with collaboration it makes little difference if the boss adds input. In fact bosses typically weigh in on many big decisions.
Also remember that time JS Giguere had an incredible playoff then crumbled in the Final? Remember that time Michael Leighton had a crazy run?
Unless you got a true-ish franchise guy (Price, Vasilevsky, even then it’s hard to tell if someone is one), these guys are “elite” in like 3 year stretches. I wouldn’t be opposed to say, Kuemper, but I would be expecting/hoping for average goaltending from him. Trying to hit on a hot couple of years from one of these guys until we find a “franchise” type (as Hank mentioned, can be anywhere in the draft) is a decent strategy to me. Especially don’t mind the whole “take a goalie every year” thing - just keep throwing darts.
Unless you got a true-ish franchise guy (Price, Vasilevsky, even then it’s hard to tell if someone is one), these guys are “elite” in like 3 year stretches. I wouldn’t be opposed to say, Kuemper, but I would be expecting/hoping for average goaltending from him. Trying to hit on a hot couple of years from one of these guys until we find a “franchise” type (as Hank mentioned, can be anywhere in the draft) is a decent strategy to me. Especially don’t mind the whole “take a goalie every year” thing - just keep throwing darts.
AhosDatsyukian
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Maybe it's different in the NHL, which I've only been following closely for the past few years, but in the NFL the worst teams are often the ones whose owners involve themselves directly in football decisions.
I don't think it's a huge deal offering input about players in the draft at all, but I just hope it doesn't lead to him being too hands on. I mean, realistically why would the FO even consider Dundon's opinion on a specific prospect in this draft at all? Dundon's not a hockey expert. Trust the scouts and the hockey people to make those decisions. And I agree I think he does trust them and that they have the final decision so it likely doesn't have any impact like you guys say, but why would Dundon even make the suggestions? What could he possibly have to offer in regards to hockey knowledge about the prospects?
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Check out Ottawa and pre Vinik Tampa, it holds true in this sport and I think most all sports.
Good. He was starting to play himself into a top 5 pick. Can't have that....
Nikishin Go Boom
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He said himself he isnt making any choices, at all. Just makes suggestions based on scout's opinions to make sure we dont have biases going on. He said naturally a Finnish scout would prefer Finnish players and Canadian scout, Canadian players.
Dundon said that Staal was one of the best players in the league. Must be talking to Rod a lot, who told the Stormtrackers lunch last year that Staal was the best player on the team.
