Prospect Info: Way too early 2020 draft options

AhosDatsyukian

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Sep 25, 2020
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Trade the 13th for Cirelli from the Bolts.

I'd consider that if Askarov isn't there and if we could find a way to move Staal. If Askarov is there I think I'd rather just take the chance on him solving our goaltending issues for the long term future than trade for Cirelli. If he's not there, I do like Cirelli and think the value is fine but I wouldn't want to be paying both Staal and Cirelli to be that defensive C whose offensive upside is limited. Cirelli would be a great longer term upgrade on Staal in that role to join our core group but it would be nearly impossible to have both on the roster for the next 3 years. I don't think TB will trade him at all though and if they did it would have to be more than just 13 overall. Very interested in seeing what TB does with their cap this offseason and if we may be able to get one of their solid players that will have to be moved. I think there could be a fit with Palat/Gourde depending on several factors.
 
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spockBokk

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Yeah, at this point I’d be mildly shocked if they actually took the goalie, provided he’s there at 13:

 

DaveG

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Yeah, at this point I’d be mildly shocked if they actually took the goalie, provided he’s there at 13:


"We're going to be open-minded, but up front looks like a need". Sounds more to me like they're prepared for Askarov to not be there than anything else. I can see a few teams (Toronto, Colorado, Edmonton) trying to leap frog us to get to him.
 

A Star is Burns

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Hard to say if all the smoke in the top 10 says he will get taken or those teams want someone trade up for him, but not good for our chances either way. I still don't think we'll take him if he's there, but I don't think we'll get a chance to see that.
 

Chrispy

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Hard to say if all the smoke in the top 10 says he will get taken or those teams want someone trade up for him, but not good for our chances either way. I still don't think we'll take him if he's there, but I don't think we'll get a chance to see that.

At this point I think they would, especially if Jarvis and Quinn are gone, but I'm beginning to come around to the concession we will never know because someone is going to trade up for Askarov.
 

emptyNedder

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Or that he's Detroit's guy and they trade back with New Jersey from the 4 (+another piece) for the 7 and the 20, and take him at 7
If that is the case, then I wouldn't mind seeing Carolina trade 13 for 20 and 32 or 20 and both 45 + 55.

At 20 one of Zary, Amirov, Mysak, or Mercer is likely to be available.
 

Chrispy

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If that is the case, then I wouldn't mind seeing Carolina trade 13 for 20 and 32 or 20 and both 45 + 55.

At 20 one of Zary, Amirov, Mysak, or Mercer is likely to be available.

I don't know about that. If Askarov is going top 12, I'm feeling pretty confident one of Quinn or Jarvis is there at 13. If it's Sanderson that falls? Agreed.
 

Vagrant

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What are your thoughts on Quinn?

just a fantastic natural scorer. that term is thrown around far too much when talking about prospects, but when you see a kid that is special in that particular aspect you know it even if you can't explain it. i honestly didn't think there was a chance in hell he would make it to our pick and thought he would have a skinner type rise up the board since 50 goals in your draft eligible season is a magic number of undeniable ability. i wouldn't put him with the top tier of those guys (stamkos, kane, crosby, etc.) but that much should be a given. the rest of the names on the list provide a clearer outlook in my opinion for an expectation. kaliyev, mantha, lupul, debrincat, skinner. those are closer to the top end projection. obviously a lot of those guys have problems quinn doesn't and positives that he doesn't but the full ledger accounting should put him in that company.

the negatives working against him are partially misinformation and partially factors he can't control. people have been boxscore scouting him and saying that marco rossi is the reason for his rapid ascent and it's simply not true. they didn't even play together at even strength where quinn scored the lion's share of his goals. there's also the concept of the unsustainable shooting percentage being above 20% last season which is an easier point to validate but still something you're measuring in its absence instead of its presence. it makes people uncomfortable when players have seasons like this without the history to support their top prospect status and they look to explain it away or disperse credit for it. another talking point is that he's one of the older players first time eligible for this draft but i think that matters less in a world where guys in their d1 seasons are getting picked as high as the 2nd round after being passed over in their first eligible season. to me the age matters more on the opposite end of the spectrum where a player is several months younger than a lot of their comps. when we start getting into storylines about age and if this kid had been born a month prior, it wouldn't even be in the discussion as a factor. to me that illustrates the absurdity of holding that against him.

some folks have said that a late growth spurt is partially responsible for his production jump and it's usually good news when that happens. because when guys that are 5'10" or so are developing, they're developing skills that bigger guys aren't as obsessive about in terms of puck handling and technical skills because they don't have the body to shield the puck by using size and leverage the way some of their larger counterparts do it. that becomes problematic at higher levels when bigger players lose that advantage. so when you have a kid that goes from needing his hands to beat players 1 on 1 and the size comes later, it's just a bonus. supposedly he's up to 6'1" now but without a combine its hard to know. but suffice it to say that he's not smallish anymore. the skating isn't explosive and that is probably the biggest detraction that holds up, but i think he has enough. he's not going to stay up the middle and be responsible for being the primary puck carrier on his line. he's a right shooting right wing and that's a hole so obvious on our current composition that it was a storyline all year about williams coming back to fill it.

the thing that is unusual about him as compared to most guys that are lauded for their shot is that he's an obsessively hard worker and someone i think brind'amour would enjoy building upon. the biggest reason i think he's an option at our pick is because he's about as all or nothing as they come in the way this organization likes. he's either going to be like one of those guys above in the 30-30 neighborhood or he's just not going to make it. at least that's my read on it. but his hands are good and he's really good at making lanes for his shot. it's worth the gamble where we are.
 

GoldiFox

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just a fantastic natural scorer. that term is thrown around far too much when talking about prospects, but when you see a kid that is special in that particular aspect you know it even if you can't explain it. i honestly didn't think there was a chance in hell he would make it to our pick and thought he would have a skinner type rise up the board since 50 goals in your draft eligible season is a magic number of undeniable ability. i wouldn't put him with the top tier of those guys (stamkos, kane, crosby, etc.) but that much should be a given. the rest of the names on the list provide a clearer outlook in my opinion for an expectation. kaliyev, mantha, lupul, debrincat, skinner. those are closer to the top end projection. obviously a lot of those guys have problems quinn doesn't and positives that he doesn't but the full ledger accounting should put him in that company.

the negatives working against him are partially misinformation and partially factors he can't control. people have been boxscore scouting him and saying that marco rossi is the reason for his rapid ascent and it's simply not true. they didn't even play together at even strength where quinn scored the lion's share of his goals. there's also the concept of the unsustainable shooting percentage being above 20% last season which is an easier point to validate but still something you're measuring in its absence instead of its presence. it makes people uncomfortable when players have seasons like this without the history to support their top prospect status and they look to explain it away or disperse credit for it. another talking point is that he's one of the older players first time eligible for this draft but i think that matters less in a world where guys in their d1 seasons are getting picked as high as the 2nd round after being passed over in their first eligible season. to me the age matters more on the opposite end of the spectrum where a player is several months younger than a lot of their comps. when we start getting into storylines about age and if this kid had been born a month prior, it wouldn't even be in the discussion as a factor. to me that illustrates the absurdity of holding that against him.

some folks have said that a late growth spurt is partially responsible for his production jump and it's usually good news when that happens. because when guys that are 5'10" or so are developing, they're developing skills that bigger guys aren't as obsessive about in terms of puck handling and technical skills because they don't have the body to shield the puck by using size and leverage the way some of their larger counterparts do it. that becomes problematic at higher levels when bigger players lose that advantage. so when you have a kid that goes from needing his hands to beat players 1 on 1 and the size comes later, it's just a bonus. supposedly he's up to 6'1" now but without a combine its hard to know. but suffice it to say that he's not smallish anymore. the skating isn't explosive and that is probably the biggest detraction that holds up, but i think he has enough. he's not going to stay up the middle and be responsible for being the primary puck carrier on his line. he's a right shooting right wing and that's a hole so obvious on our current composition that it was a storyline all year about williams coming back to fill it.

the thing that is unusual about him as compared to most guys that are lauded for their shot is that he's an obsessively hard worker and someone i think brind'amour would enjoy building upon. the biggest reason i think he's an option at our pick is because he's about as all or nothing as they come in the way this organization likes. he's either going to be like one of those guys above in the 30-30 neighborhood or he's just not going to make it. at least that's my read on it. but his hands are good and he's really good at making lanes for his shot. it's worth the gamble where we are.

I like that Quinn isn't scoring his 50 goals off of just one aspect like a slick wrister (Holtz) or an elite one-timer (Foerster). Quinn scores with a whole arsenal of shots, great hands in-tight, and a knack for getting to the right spot at the right time. I think that killer instinct is a lot better in translating to the NHL than one good trick. Svechnikov is similar, albeit higher-end.

As you said with the Rossi connection, Quinn only had 8 of his 52 goals primarily assisted by Rossi:

assist 1
7395 - Mitchell Hoelscher - 14
7889 - Marco Rossi - 8
7045 - Noel Hoefenmayer - 7
7043 - Austen Keating - 6
8136 - Jack Beck - 4
(blank) - 3
7891 - Alec Belanger - 2
7367 - Kevin Bahl - 2
7024 - Joseph Garreffa - 2
8135 - Jack Matier - 1
7743 - Adam Varga - 1
7813 - Nikita Okhotyuk - 1
8137 - Teddy Sawyer - 1
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

Vagrant

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just another point on quinn, there's talk that he could be ready for day 1. that's quite a statement but there's probably less upside to damage if that makes sense. he'll be 19 and change and he's not a superstar projection. his numbers certainly justify skipping his d1 and despite the age thing being overblown, it's a true statement. especially with the season being pushed back you start to think about where this player should be physically and if he arrives to camp in fantastic shape and looks like he belongs, i think there's a chance his drafting team lets him play rather than sending him back to a still loaded ottawa and rossi does the same should be an absolute laugher for them both. so if you're the hurricanes and he's sitting there in the teens and you have a wide open spot for him.... maybe you're drafting for now and later. he's green but competitive defensively which should help. there's an eagerness to his game that coaches are going to like and should make him a quick study. he's also not shy about getting into the mix in board battles. he has a lot of his mentality figured out. but teams drafting in the top 10 usually want superstar upside or at least elite first line upside and i don't know if you'd call quinn that even if he pans out. you look at the names he's in company with like lupul, debrincat, skinner.... guys that are probably the 3rd or 4th best forward on your team if your team is any good.
 
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MinJaBen

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Askarov and Quinn are going 11-12, I’m sure of it.
As long as Sanderson and Drysdale are also both gone, we will get a good forward. Lundell, Jarvis, etc. We'll be fine. I just hope that if Askarov is still there and it is the two defenders that dropped from the top 10 as well, the Borg doesn't reach for a forward instead of taking him.
 

WreckingCrew

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I think the nice thing is there WILL be a quality guy available at that pick, be it Askarov, Jarvis, Lundell, Quinn...they would have to really **** up or reach or do something stupid to mess that pick up and make me mad. Theoretically they could even trade back a couple spots and pick the "leftover" while gaining another draft pick or something.
 

GoldiFox

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As long as Sanderson and Drysdale are also both gone, we will get a good forward. Lundell, Jarvis, etc. We'll be fine. I just hope that if Askarov is still there and it is the two defenders that dropped from the top 10 as well, the Borg doesn't reach for a forward instead of taking him.

If Sanderson or Drysdale is there at #13 then the Canes should open the phone lines and get a haul. That shouldn't happen though as I believe the last time only one D was taken in the top-10 was 2006.
 

AhosDatsyukian

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If Sanderson or Drysdale is there at #13 then the Canes should open the phone lines and get a haul. That shouldn't happen though as I believe the last time only one D was taken in the top-10 was 2006.

I don't see any chance Drysdale is there but if he is, why not just take him? Would be great value and BPA, also some insurance if we couldn't get something done with Dougie or did wind up moving Pesce for an impact forward like Nylander...
 

CanesFanBudMan

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As long as Sanderson and Drysdale are also both gone, we will get a good forward. Lundell, Jarvis, etc. We'll be fine. I just hope that if Askarov is still there and it is the two defenders that dropped from the top 10 as well, the Borg doesn't reach for a forward instead of taking him.
The math works out - assuming the 2 D are taken we will have at minimum 1 of who is left from Askorov, Jarvis, Quinn, and Lundell.

this also assumes that Laf, Byfield, Stutzle, Raymond, Perfetti, Holts, and Rossi are taken by then. If not -a pleasant surprise
 

A Star is Burns

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At this point, if we take one of the presumed top 13 we are mostly talking about, and I'd maaaybe put Amirov in there as one more option, I'd be fine with it. I think the only guy in our area that I'd really be upset with is Holloway (or a weird reach). He's not for me at this pick. If we traded down, which I doubt, then sure, there'd be other guys I'd consider.
 

GoldiFox

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I don't see any chance Drysdale is there but if he is, why not just take him? Would be great value and BPA, also some insurance if we couldn't get something done with Dougie or did wind up moving Pesce for an impact forward like Nylander...

I prefer Sanderson to Drysdale, but both of them look more like potntial great #3s than a Dougie-level D. I'm not sure their upside is much more than Pesce is now and it would be at least 3-4 years off which is the end of the current core's contracts. If NJ calls up and offers #18 + #20 then I'd much prefer two of Holloway, Zary, Amirov, Borque, Gunler, Khusnutdinov, etc. over just one of Drysdale/Sanderson.
 

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