Speculation: Was Babcock the reason why M&M didn't Sign for 8 Years

[ToDavid]

I doubt it, these short term contracts are not anything new despite the media trying its best to stir it up as a controversy. Stars have been taking shorter second contracts since the beginning of the cap era. If anything he may have been the reason they dug in so hard on money.

If there was one negotiation I think he may have impacted the most it's Nylander. All the rumours that his biggest concern was getting traded suggests a player who thinks his coach doesn't like him and wants him gone.

 

[Notsince67]

Unlike you, I support every position I take with evidence.

Yeah ok. Then put up or shut up on your evidence. Merely claiming there are adequate comparables for one over the other is not evidence. Claiming comparables are only valid when weighted by goals on one and then not the other is not evidence. Your act is getting tiresome.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah ok. Then put up or shut up on your evidence. Merely claiming there are adequate comparables for one over the other is not evidence. Claiming comparables are only valid when weighted by goals on one and then not the other is not evidence. Your act is getting tiresome.

I have posted evidence for almost half of a year that conclusively proves that Matthews is a superior player, and you know that, because you spent a ton of time complaining about it. I have looked at historical signings and comparables, and while none of the contracts are cause for concern, it is evident that Matthews has a better contract relative to the quality of player he is, and that there are better historical comparables for him and that contract.

Marner is an amazing player, and I have shown extensive proof to support that, but you go way overboard and treat him as this team's god, and you have never supported anything you have said about him. In 6 months. And then you talk down to other people. Be better.

 

[tmlms13]

The term maybe not. The cap hit the might have been a I want a little extra if I have to play for him.

Honestly If I ever had a boss that I hated with a passion I'd want as much money as possible. Screw the team. If I'm going to play for him I want an extra 10%.

 

[Pyromaniac]

It showed his true colours to the team fairly early. I would want to be paid more as well if I had to put up with an abusive yet mediocre coach. Glad we got the toxicity out, it can go watch the hunting channel.

 

[Duke Silver]

You have nothing. And are wrong. Best to stay silent.

Spoken like someone who clearly has all the answers.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Spoken like someone who clearly has all the answers.

Some posters here are genius and the best hockey minds in the world. That's why no evidence is required.

Edit: Added emoji because I know how hard it is to tell who is using sarcasm.

 

[Kiwi]

These were RFA negotiations where the team has the bulk of the leverage

I'm sure our guys weren't the first players to be resigned by a team with a coach they disliked and were forced to accept something closer to their comparables

The cold hard fact is this is on the GM and upper management, they couldn't or wouldn't hold the line and the players got very friendly deals for themselves

I know Babcock isn't liked around here and some of that is for a good reason but I like blaming people for things they have control over and Babcock had no control in this particular matter

 

[Loosie]

I'm not sure about term, but there has been a ton of speculation that it is why they didn't take 'team friendly' deals.

 

[hotpaws]

Willie said he was scared of being traded and got a promise from Dubie he wouldn't move him as long as he was GM . There were also reports he didn't want to sign cheap and get lapped by M and M . Nothing about wanting extra because of Babs .

There were endless reports Marner wanted the same money as Mathews and nothing about wanting more because of Babs ,

Mathews deal was negotiated halfway threw the season and there wasn't much speculation before it happened and nothing about him demanding more because of Babs .

Then Babs who was a god here for 3 yrs gets fired and now is being blamed for the Dube getting bent over . I've never understood why it's so important for some people to defend/make excuses for/spin every poor move our mgmt makes .

 

[Menzinger]

I dount it was a factor that that played a major role in where term and aav ended up.

But imo hard to deny that it likely ended up being a major obstacle to any of the guys giving the team a discount. Nobody is taking a paycut to play for a guy they hate

 

[JT AM da real deal]

These were RFA negotiations where the team has the bulk of the leverage

I'm sure our guys weren't the first players to be resigned by a team with a coach they disliked and were forced to accept something closer to their comparables

The cold hard fact is this is on the GM and upper management, they couldn't or wouldn't hold the line and the players got very friendly deals for themselves

I know Babcock isn't liked around here and some of that is for a good reason but I like blaming people for things they have control over and Babcock had no control in this particular matter

The old RFA landscape has changed. Top end RFAs now get paid. and we are seeing older UFA players who used to get the big deals not get them anymore. Welcome to the new NHL pay program. To blame it on Dubie is a little unfair. Personally I thought he paid too much too, and maybe he did overpay some, but when there are other teams out there going to pay Mitch 10.6M what can he really do. To me that was the stopping point. But keep in mind if Mitch did not sign as season went on it would have hurt our CAP even more so a little goodwill was needed to grease the wheel.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The old RFA landscape has changed. Top end RFAs now get paid. and we are seeing older UFA players who used to get the big deals not get them anymore. Welcome to the new NHL pay program. To blame it on Dubie is a little unfair. Personally I thought he paid too much too, and maybe he did overpay some, but when there are other teams out there going to pay Mitch 10.6M what can he really do. To me that was the stopping point. But keep in mind if Mitch did not sign as season went on it would have hurt our CAP even more so a little goodwill was needed to grease the wheel.

Just to add I do think the little extra grease cost us a decent backup tender. To me if I was Dubie I would have laid that out there to Mitch. Take 300K less so we can get a backup to help us get a higher seed.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

The old RFA landscape has changed. Top end RFAs now get paid. and we are seeing older UFA players who used to get the big deals not get them anymore. Welcome to the new NHL pay program. To blame it on Dubie is a little unfair. Personally I thought he paid too much too, and maybe he did overpay some, but when there are other teams out there going to pay Mitch 10.6M what can he really do. To me that was the stopping point. But keep in mind if Mitch did not sign as season went on it would have hurt our CAP even more so a little goodwill was needed to grease the wheel.

I keep seeing posters saying this, I just haven't seen any evidence of it yet. I guess it's easier to lie then to admit that our GM sucks at his job.

 

[frizzer1]

Let’s assume that they would have signed for less money and longer term if Babcock had not been the coach.
Is there a rule that they can’t renegotiate their contracts?
Just asking....of course it won’t happen.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I keep seeing posters saying this, I just haven't seen any evidence of it yet. I guess it's easier to lie then to admit that our GM sucks at his job.

We saw it with Leafs this year. Typically Spezza would have got a 2 or 3 year deal at 1.5M per. But bottom line teams are saying look will give you the NHL minimum. So he got the NHL minimum. It is happening.

 

[mikeyz]

I am arguably the president of the Anti Babcock fan club on these boards and even I can say no to this.

It had more to do with cap parameters more then anything.

 

[Menzinger]

I keep seeing posters saying this, I just haven't seen any evidence of it yet. I guess it's easier to lie then to admit that our GM sucks at his job.

Spezza flat put admited he took a paycut when he signed with the Leafs.

Its been reported via 3rd party sources that Tavares and Ennis took paycuts too vs other offers.

Dubas' moves with the big three rfas will always be contentious among this fanbase, but theres nothibg abnormal about any of his other signings.

 

[hotpaws]

I keep seeing posters saying this, I just haven't seen any evidence of it yet. I guess it's easier to lie then to admit that our GM sucks at his job.

yup it seems it's easier to make up fairy tales than to believe Dubas isn't the greatest GM in the history of the game like some seem to believe . lol

and it seems like it was only yesterday Babs was the bestest coach ever and only a couple of day before that that Burke was the previous bestest GM ever

funny how great our coach/mgmt are when they're employed by us , lol

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Willie said he was scared of being traded and got a promise from Dubie he wouldn't move him as long as he was GM . There were also reports he didn't want to sign cheap and get lapped by M and M . Nothing about wanting extra because of Babs .

There were endless reports Marner wanted the same money as Mathews and nothing about wanting more because of Babs ,

Mathews deal was negotiated halfway threw the season and there wasn't much speculation before it happened and nothing about him demanding more because of Babs .

Then Babs who was a god here for 3 yrs gets fired and now is being blamed for the Dube getting bent over . I've never understood why it's so important for some people to defend/make excuses for/spin every poor move our mgmt makes .

It’s been this way for ages.

Burke was a “good” gm with some minor flaws until the day he was fired and he became the root of all problems. Ditto Nonis. It even happenEd to Lou to some extent. Once they’re fired, we can safely blame them for everything.
It’s much easier to blame literally everything on Babcock because he’s no longer on the team, but Dubas is. So that means Dubas is “THE BEST!!!”

If the leafs miss the playoffs and Dubas is fired, he will overnight become one of the worst gm’s in leaf history on these boards. Everyone here will be digging deep into the unprecedented dramatic overpayments negotiations and it will be flat out hysteria.

 

[hotpaws]

Spezza flat put admited he took a paycut when he signed with the Leafs.

Its been reported via 3rd party sources that Tavares and Ennis took paycuts too vs other offers.

Dubas' moves with the big three rfas will always be contentious among this fanbase, but theres nothibg abnormal about any of his other signings.

most ufa's say they took less when they signed including the great David Clarkson

none of Kerfoot/Kap/Mango are on what anyone would consider team friendly deals and it could be easily argued all 3 are overpaid to varying degrees

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The old RFA landscape has changed. Top end RFAs now get paid. and we are seeing older UFA players who used to get the big deals not get them anymore. Welcome to the new NHL pay program. To blame it on Dubie is a little unfair. Personally I thought he paid too much too, and maybe he did overpay some, but when there are other teams out there going to pay Mitch 10.6M what can he really do. To me that was the stopping point. But keep in mind if Mitch did not sign as season went on it would have hurt our CAP even more so a little goodwill was needed to grease the wheel.

I saw a lot of other rfa’s out there sign for FAR better contracts this year than the entitled 3. It destroyed the “rfa’s are the new ufa’s” agenda that literally only leaf fans were saying in order to try and rationalize Dubas’s unprecedented dramatic overpayments.

 

[Menzinger]

most ufa's say they took less when they signed including the great David Clarkson

none of Kerfoot/Kap/Mango are on what anyone would consider team friendly deals and it could be easily argued all 3 are overpaid to varying degrees

Youd be very hard pressed to argue any of those guys were overpaid based on comparables. They either all got in line with what they were excpected ir even a bit under when fscroeing in term.

It should be fairly obvious imo that Spezza could have gotten a deal elsewhere. He literally signed for league minimum.

Again, i get why certain contracts are cause of concern, but these blanket claims that every signing Dubas has made is bad is just silly

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Spezza flat put admited he took a paycut when he signed with the Leafs.

Its been reported via 3rd party sources that Tavares and Ennis took paycuts too vs other offers.

Dubas' moves with the big three rfas will always be contentious among this fanbase, but theres nothibg abnormal about any of his other signings.

Exactly. They could have still gotten more money, but they chose not too. I guess they wanted to stay close to home... UFA's can, and will still get big money.

 

[Menzinger]

yup it seems it's easier to make up fairy tales than to believe Dubas isn't the greatest GM in the history of the game like some seem to believe . lol

and it seems like it was only yesterday Babs was the bestest coach ever and only a couple of day before that that Burke was the previous bestest GM ever

funny how great our coach/mgmt are when they're employed by us , lol

Nobdy has claimed Dubas is the best GM in history. And Babcock had a fair amount of vocal critics on this board prior to his firing.

Youre building a strawman here