Speculation: Was Babcock the reason why M&M didn't Sign for 8 Years

[Eternal Leaf]

Matthews took Dubas first offer, didn’t even counter. What you want him to do, ask for less?

That's not true.

Sources mentioned Dubas wanted below 11M on the 5-year deal. Bob Mckenzie also said Matthews asked for 13.5M x 8.

Dubas accepted the shorter term because it was the only way to make it work.

 

[Hustlr]

That's not true.

Sources mentioned Dubas wanted below 11M on the 5-year deal. Bob Mckenzie also said Matthews asked for 13.5M x 8.

Dubas accepted the shorter term because it was the only way to make it work.

Source please.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Source please.

Quote from Greg Wyshynski about 5-year deal.

The Leafs prayed they could get him for under $11 million on a shorter term, and Matthews got 'em for $11.634 million, with 93 percent of it paid in signing bonuses. He got paid, he got flexibility and he gets to have a competitive team around him while making $15.9 million in each of the next two seasons.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Yes, Babcock hates singing.

 

[Hustlr]

Quote from Greg Wyshynski about 5-year deal.

Don’t see anything saying he didn’t take the first deal offered.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Don’t see anything saying he didn’t take the first deal offered.

Source please.

 

[Hustlr]

Source please.

It appears we’re at am impasse.

But I’m a bit confused, you would’ve preferred 13.634x8? Cause that seems like the alternative and in that case I’m sure he would’ve got lit up even harder for that cap hit.

The fact he signed when he did shows he didn’t play hard ball in the slightest.

I don’t know why you guys keep coming after our mega superstar player’s contract, he’s living up to it RIGHT NOW...

 

[Eternal Leaf]

It appears we’re at am impasse.

But I’m a bit confused, you would’ve preferred 13.634x8? Cause that seems like the alternative and in that case I’m sure he would’ve got lit up even harder for that cap hit.

The fact he signed when he did shows he didn’t play hard ball in the slightest.

I don’t know why you guys keep coming after our mega superstar player’s contract, he’s living up to it RIGHT NOW...

I have nothing against Matthews' contract nor was I coming after him. I actually believe Marner is the one who was considerably overpaid between the trio.

For this thread, all I'm saying is, if (and that's a BIG if) someone was going to be negatively influenced by Babs being the coach, it would have been Matthews.

I would have said Marner but his agent made it quite clear they wanted to get as close to Matthews deal as possible. That doesn't seem like he had a Babs problem but more of an ego one.

 

[Hustlr]

I think Matthews and Nylander’s deals are both very fair. I think Marner is very out of line and the timing of his deal makes it even more so. He forced us into a real tough spot and I didn’t appreciate it.

 

[MattySnipes]

If it affected anyone, I would think it's Matthews.

He did his own thing from the beginning and asked for the moon without caring about the others. He may have quickly made his mind up about cashing in (rather than offering a discount) if he was going to be coached by Babs.

Marner looked like he just wanted what Matthews got and it was more of an ego thing.

Wouldn't worry too much about it tbh. Worst case, he's overpaid by .634M to you. Not that huge a deal.

It's okay to pay your superstars. They performed.

 

[DarkKnight]

Let the total bullshit narratives cement themselves.

All the insiders said Matthews wanted a max deal but the money he wanted was too much.

Poll results a joke.

 

[DarkKnight]

Not only that, but he shot JFK too.

And don’t even get me started with the role he’s played with global warming.

 

[Nithoniniel]

It's pretty obvious that Marner and Matthews both had significant issues with Babcock. So let's rephrase the question a bit here. In any workplace, is it likely that someone would want to be paid more to stick around if they had to put up with a boss they can't stand? Even if they want to stay for other reasons?

To me that's an obvious yes. As such, it's equally obvious that it likely played some role in the negotiations. It's a cop out to assign all the blame to Babcock though.

Regardless, I'll reiterate what I've said a hundred times already. We need to stop obsessing about these contracts. There's no difference between the overpayment of our RFA contracts and teams spending $2M too much on their marginal players, which a large part of the league does. It's the amount of overpayment that matters. That people seriously argue that our chance to compete is over because of that is beyond me, when some other contenders carry contracts with twice as big of an overpayment for a much less important player.

 

[hotpaws]

Babs had nothing to do with the overpayments but lets go with it to defend the Dube and make his light bright shine brighter .

the stories on Babs being an arrogant prick who players didn't like were out there for years and ignored for the first 3 yrs here when he was a god to most on this board but now on his way out he's responsible for every issues this team has from contracts to overpriced beer at the arena , lol

 

[al secord]

Let's not let an incident 4 years ago which was admittedly wrong, cloud our judgement of the greed of our young players.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So instead they signed for the exact number of years that Babcock still had left on his contract? How does that make any sense?

 

[moon111]

Exactly how many other teams are lead by a SOB? Did they have a No-Trade clause to prevent a trade to Bill Peter's Calgary Flames?

 

[Notsince67]

I think Matthews and Nylander’s deals are both very fair. I think Marner is very out of line and the timing of his deal makes it even more so. He forced us into a real tough spot and I didn’t appreciate it.

You think wrong at every level. Relatively speaking, there is little difference in their overpayments. What you state is a mere reflection of your biases based on little imperical evidence.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I would assume Babcock's influence played a large part in hardball negotiating. If I am to stay at an employer despite hating my boss, I will demand more $$.

 

[Zizzzzy]

Both of them signed for longer than Babs existing contract, so I do not see how any correlation could be drawn between the two.

I would say that the "Respect" line we heard a lot during the Marner negotiation probably included this incident, where we only heard about the ELC bonuses at the time

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I would assume Babcock's influence played a large part in hardball negotiating. If I am to stay at an employer despite hating my boss, I will demand more $$.

That's a very player friendly narrative.

 

[TMLS]

100% Matthews, Nylander, Marner contract siuttations would have played out differently if this joke coach wasnt signed here for 8 years.

 

[Incetardis]

Not for less term no but for more money? Maybe. If he's pulling off the kind of garbage that's been leaking out since he was fired I can't blame the kids for not taking "team friendly" contracts. I'd feel the same way. Nobody is going to take a discount to go work with that kind of jackass everyday

 

[Pinto]

Yes, it was absolutely a factor, at least in Matthews’ case.

 

[Clark4Ever]

No. They both probably figured they would outlast Babcock anyway.

However, I do believe Babcock may have had a detrimental impact on negotiations in terms of the AAV if they were both unhappy playing for him.