Speculation: Was Babcock the reason why M&M didn't Sign for 8 Years

Do you believe Babcock was a decided factor to Marner & Matthwes signing for less term


  • Total voters
    211

MagicalRazor

Registered User
Oct 25, 2016
1,518
591
I don't know where to post this because half of the forums are locked. Typo in the poll Sign not sing lol

With everyone coming out now saying Babcock was a terrible person quoting him as "mean" , "A Jerk", a terrible person & an egoistic maniac. Do you believe that Matthwes and Marner might have considered signing for longer term if Babcock wasn't the coach.
There have been many TSN annalists , EX players and some current players publicy coming out and throwing him into the fire about his personality.
Now knowing some of the example of what he did to players like Marner do you believe that Babcock is a big reason why Matthews & Marner didn't sign for 7-8 Years.

Last year after the playoffs Babcock flew to Airzona to talk to Matthews due to an issue between the 2.
We Now know that he put Marner in an extremely awkward situation his rookie year , some belive it was due to not drafting Hanifin.
I wouldn't doubt it if there was more bad situations these players faced or players faced.
 

Dave92

Registered User
Oct 9, 2019
3,896
4,752
No, Marners agent went mental when he saw that Matthews only signed for 5 years. I'm sure they were expecting to sign for 8.

Regardless of the reason the term is brutal and shouldn't have happened.
 

FlareKnight

Registered User
Jun 26, 2006
19,822
1,707
Alberta
I hear Babcock is at fault for there not being world peace. Was pretty sure going into this thread that it was a joke one about blaming Babcock for a band not performing for 8 years.

And no, I don't think he was a factor for the term of their contracts. Matthews had the team bent over and giving him less term kept his cap hit less insane than it could have been. Marner wanted all the money in the world and keeping it at 6 years was the only way to keep his salary lower than Matthews.

Money was the deciding factor and the term had to be sacrificed for us to have any hope of assembling a functional roster.
 

MattySnipes

Registered User
Jan 26, 2018
12,457
12,447
'Mecca' of Hockey
I think that's a cop out.

Listen, is Babcock easy going? No. Is he hard to take? Yes. He wears on people. When you're winning it's okay, but if you lose it's a pain in the ass. To top it off he loves the power he has. I've alluded to the 'Babcock tax' in the past, and I guess we'll never know.

But if I was Nylander, Matthews, and Marner I would definitely charge a premium knowing this guy is my coach for the next 5+ years. I wanna be paid more if I have to deal with someone who wears on me mentally. No matter if I'm winning or losing.
 
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IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,461
24,487
The 5 or 8 year term isn't what captures me.

It's the fact that they fought down and dirty for every cent. I have a strange feeling that they would have been far more open to better deals had we not been forcing them to put up with Babcock.
 

FlareKnight

Registered User
Jun 26, 2006
19,822
1,707
Alberta
I think that's a cop out.

Listen, is Babcock easy going? No. Is he hard to take? Yes. He wears on people. When you're winning it's okay, but if you lose it's a pain in the ass. To top it off he loves the power he has. I've alluded to the 'Babcock tax' in the past, and I guess we'll never know.

But if I was Nylander, Matthews, and Marner I would definitely charge a premium knowing this guy is my coach for the next 5+ years. I wanna be paid more if I have to deal with someone who wears on me mentally. No matter if I'm winning or losing.
On the positive side now we can 100% look forward to Matthews and Marner taking paycuts on their next deals because Babcock is gone right? They totally aren't going to expect to get pay raises considering they got a likable guy like Keefe coaching them for the majority of their present deals. Thank goodness. Too bad the Marner didn't get that 2-3 year deal. Could have gotten his cap hit under control a lot sooner.
 

MattySnipes

Registered User
Jan 26, 2018
12,457
12,447
'Mecca' of Hockey
On the positive side now we can 100% look forward to Matthews and Marner taking paycuts on their next deals because Babcock is gone right? They totally aren't going to expect to get pay raises considering they got a likable guy like Keefe coaching them for the majority of their present deals. Thank goodness. Too bad the Marner didn't get that 2-3 year deal. Could have gotten his cap hit under control a lot sooner.
If expensive mid-term contracts are given now as a premium to RFAs due to their production and young age, it only makes sense that when we have to sign them next it'll be cheaper because they're closer to 30.

However we'll see.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
49,550
59,135
I think it's too extreme to blame everything that goes wrong on Babcock, but it's hard to argue it wasn't even a factor if he truly was as despised as it appears
 
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IceNeophyte

Registered User
Nov 14, 2017
9,976
7,291
I don't know where to post this because half of the forums are locked. Typo in the poll Sign not sing lol

With everyone coming out now saying Babcock was a terrible person quoting him as "mean" , "A Jerk", a terrible person & an egoistic maniac. Do you believe that Matthwes and Marner might have considered signing for longer term if Babcock wasn't the coach.
There have been many TSN annalists , EX players and some current players publicy coming out and throwing him into the fire about his personality.
Now knowing some of the example of what he did to players like Marner do you believe that Babcock is a big reason why Matthews & Marner didn't sign for 7-8 Years.

Last year after the playoffs Babcock flew to Airzona to talk to Matthews due to an issue between the 2.
We Now know that he put Marner in an extremely awkward situation his rookie year , some belive it was due to not drafting Hanifin.
I wouldn't doubt it if there was more bad situations these players faced or players faced.
I understand they were singing "Without Me" after he was canned
 

Buds17

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
8,221
3,343
Doubt it. Why potentially sign at all if it were to be that big of a deal? I also don't expect in any hypothetical (star) player versus coach scenario that a team would side with the coach. A coach and a player each signing an eight year deal isn't the same kind of situation either. Kadri and Rielly signed for the same term as Marner. I'd think Matthews and Marner would have helped pitched Toronto to Tavares (the only player on the team signed for max term).
 

shaner82

Registered User
Apr 18, 2017
1,379
1,452
Matthews wanted a longer term but the Leafs said they couldn't do it.
Marner wanted what Matthews got.

Nothing to do with Babs
 

djdev

Registered User
Dec 26, 2015
5,872
5,138
costa rica
i doubt they sign anything more than a bridge deal if they were that opposed to babs as the coach. also, very very few coachs last 9 years with a team. so no..i doubt it had anything to do with the deals.
 

Rogue Leader

Registered User
Oct 12, 2019
1,582
2,358
Corellia
Never thought of this before, but now that I think about it I am sure it must have been in the mind of all players. Really disappointed from Babcock and all the recent developments. I am sure that more **** is going to come out soon.
 

Thread The Needle

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
Nov 28, 2016
1,873
1,031
Detroit
The best thing that happened for Dubas is this Babcock shitshow. Now everything can be placed on him, even though Dubas was the one who couldn't sign them to team-friendly deals. Babcock is a POS, but not everything can be his fault.
 

Eternal Leaf

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
7,594
8,823
Toronto
If it affected anyone, I would think it's Matthews.

He did his own thing from the beginning and asked for the moon without caring about the others. He may have quickly made his mind up about cashing in (rather than offering a discount) if he was going to be coached by Babs.

Marner looked like he just wanted what Matthews got and it was more of an ego thing.
 

Hustlr

Registered User
Oct 1, 2019
1,376
744
Has been a while since I’ve seen them sing..

Not sure I’m buying that narrative though. Dubas apparently knew Babs wasn’t the coach for this team, so why not tell the boys when they’re signing if they have that as one of their contract concerns? I don’t know seems far fetched.
 

Hustlr

Registered User
Oct 1, 2019
1,376
744
If it affected anyone, I would think it's Matthews.

He did his own thing from the beginning and asked for the moon without caring about the others. He may have quickly made his mind up about cashing in (rather than offering a discount) if he was going to be coached by Babs.

Marner looked like he just wanted what Matthews got and it was more of an ego thing.

Matthews took Dubas first offer, didn’t even counter. What you want him to do, ask for less?
 

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