Confirmed with Link: [VAN/ARI] Garland,OEL(12% retained) for 9th OA,2nd in 22,7th in 23,Beagle,Roussel,Eriksson (Part 2)

[Pip]

It’s like the argument over the past however many years that Tampa is in “cap hell” and framing it as they are in an unenviable position. If you have a ton of talented players that require big salaries that is a good thing and you can make moves to balance the cap.

this is even ignoring the insane value an elite player gives you on their ELC, especially for a team looking to compete

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

The new core wasn't really fully assembled till 2019...and since then, they have been trying to compete..Yes, teams do tend to suck for a considerable time, while transitioning cores.

There wasn't a chance that we were going to come out of the aged out Sedin core, and no prospect pool....without pain.

Exactly. And instead of doing what is flagrantly obvious to all of us; committing to acquire as many futures as possible to minimize that “pain”, we have made trades involving firsts…. 8 years later.

Miller trade = in a vacuum , good

Miller trade, because the team is never going to be competing when he’s on it = bad

Same goes for this garland trade but it’s even worse as it has a price attached for another 7 ?years

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Exactly. And instead of doing what is flagrantly obvious to all of us; committing to acquire as many futures as possible to minimize that “pain”, we have made trades involving firsts…. 8 years later.

Miller trade = in a vacuum , good

Miller trade, because the team is never going to be competing when he’s on it = bad

Same goes for this garland trade but it’s even worse as it has a price attached for another 7 ?years

Sounds like you've already made your mind up that the team isn't going to be any good, so its pointless trying to convince you otherwise.

To each their own.

 

[logan5]

He understands your post. No need to “simplify” it.

it just makes absolutely zero sense

more young players = more ELCs = more cap space. reality is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting

That’s a very bad strategy at this point. We have to build a contender at this point. You and others don’t seem to understand how teams operate in the cap era.

 

[MarkMM]

The new core wasn't really fully assembled till 2019...and since then, they have been trying to compete..Yes, teams do tend to suck for a considerable time, while transitioning cores.

There wasn't a chance that we were going to come out of the aged out Sedin core, and no prospect pool....without pain.

Then why the trading of futures for age-gap players (who in the end sucked anywa7) and committing long-term deals (also for bad players) that would handicap our new core's window if we weren't going to have a new core worth competing with till after 2019?

 

[Hit the post]

Then why the trading of futures for age-gap players (who in the end sucked anywa7) and committing long-term deals (also for bad players) that would handicap our new core's window if we weren't going to have a new core worth competing with till after 2019?

Because uh huh, Gillis!

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Then why the trading of futures for age-gap players (who in the end sucked anywa7) and committing long-term deals (also for bad players) that would handicap our new core's window if we weren't going to have a new core worth competing with till after 2019?

Which futures have we traded for age gap players (who have sucked) in the last 4 years?

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

He did not say anything about having to shut up. Everyone can go on speculating. Just keep that in mind though, it is just speculation. People love to run with opinions and guesses as fact around here.

It's the same as going into the Klimovich prospect thread and saying "Why is anyone talking about this? We don't know the future for this kid. Anything else is just speculation"

People run with narrative and speculation because that's literally all we have most of the time. Reminding people that we don't have all the information is just poohpoohing chatter

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

Which futures have we traded for age gap players (who have sucked) in the last 4 years?

Why the arbitrary deadline of 4 years?

 

[RobertKron]

I don’t know how to make it simpler to understand. With the salary cap, you can only take in so much young talent. We have reached that saturation point, so the time is now to build around this young talent, otherwise we are going in circles

This team was just carried by having a series of high-end players outperforming their cap hits. Like, aside from Markstrom, that was the only thing that made this team even remotely competitive in any games over the past couple years when you contrasted those young players with the value provided by the bulk of the rest of what management brought in. How can you have possibly watched that and come away with this point of view? It’s absolutely unfathomable.

Are you opposed to Podkolzin joining the team? Rathbone?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Why the arbitrary deadline of 4 years?

...because we are discussing this current core...rehashing Linden Vey,Baertschi,Gubdbranson was a different era, and a different core ..The goals of the team were completely different.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

...because we are discussing this current core...rehashing Linden Vey,Baertschi,Gubdbranson was a different era, and a different core ..The goals of the team were dcompletely different.

But that just seems awfully convenient when we're discussing this core. A 2nd for Linden Vey could have been Brandon Montour or Christian Dvorak, don't you think they might be useful pieces of the team now? Instead of Sven Baertschi, Rasmus Andersson could be a useful piece of the core? I don't understand why these are irrelevant to the current team, when players taken in those drafts are currently part of our "core"

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

But that just seems awfully convenient when we're discussing this core. A 2nd for Linden Vey could have been Brandon Montour or Christian Dvorak, don't you think they might be useful pieces of the team now? Instead of Sven Baertschi, Rasmus Andersson could be a useful piece of the core? I don't understand why these are irrelevant to the current team, when players taken in those drafts are currently part of our "core"

You could make that argument about coulda , shoulda, woulda even before Benning was hired....Most of those early moves were based on the ideology of immediately getting the Sedins into the playoffs... If you were following the conversation..It was based around posters claiming that the current wont be very good for the next few years.

 

[F A N]

But that just seems awfully convenient when we're discussing this core. A 2nd for Linden Vey could have been Brandon Montour or Christian Dvorak, don't you think they might be useful pieces of the team now? Instead of Sven Baertschi, Rasmus Andersson could be a useful piece of the core? I don't understand why these are irrelevant to the current team, when players taken in those drafts are currently part of our "core"

That's more about the trade targets not working out though. Nobody talks of trades where a pick that amounted to nothing was traded for a useful NHL player. The 2nd used in the trade for Linden Vey was Roland McKeown who is a bust. What's also not mentioned is that that 2nd came from trading Jason Garrision so essentially the Canucks traded Garrison for Vey. Don't sound as fancy of course.

 

[RobertKron]

You could make that argument about coulda , shoulda, woulda even before Benning was hired....Most of those early moves were based on the ideology of immediately getting the Sedins into the playoffs... If you were following the conversation..It was based around posters claiming that the current wont be very good for the next few years.

Actually, most of those moves were based on the ideology of creating a supportive winning environment for the new young core.

Like, you think they were concerned about the "age gap" because the Sedins needed more guys who were only a bit younger than themselves?

They just did the Oilers thing and shit the bed bad enough that they were able to just keep on chugging along into a new new young core.

 

[RobertKron]

That's more about the trade targets not working out though. Nobody talks of trades where a pick that amounted to nothing was traded for a useful NHL player. The 2nd used in the trade for Linden Vey was Roland McKeown who is a bust. What's also not mentioned is that that 2nd came from trading Jason Garrision so essentially the Canucks traded Garrison for Vey. Don't sound as fancy of course.

You'd hope that the prospect whisperer could make a bit more hay with those 2nd rounders than wherever they ended up. Especially with the bare cupboards and so on. Even ignoring that, the value of the 2nd rounder at the time of the trade wasn't tied to which player ended up being picked and whatever happened to them however many years later.

And, yeah, Garrison for Vey sounds just as bad since they should have traded Garrison for a 2nd instead.

 

[lousy]

It's the same as going into the Klimovich prospect thread and saying "Why is anyone talking about this? We don't know the future for this kid. Anything else is just speculation"

People run with narrative and speculation because that's literally all we have most of the time. Reminding people that we don't have all the information is just poohpoohing chatter

I don't know... seems like many here need to be reminded of that. I don't want to stifle discussion, but context and facts matter.

 

[Vaughan Cunningham]

Because uh huh, Gillis!

Great contribution to the thread. All that’s missing is the hur dur Jethro Bodine or NoGoodbransuck epic burns.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

I don't know... seems like many here need to be reminded of that. I don't want to stifle discussion, but context and facts matter.

I mean I don't mean to make it out to be some grievous action, but it's just something that I see everywhere and it ticks me off at times lol

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Actually, most of those moves were based on the ideology of creating a supportive winning environment for the new young core.

Like, you think they were concerned about the "age gap" because the Sedins needed more guys who were only a bit younger than themselves?

They just did the Oilers thing and shit the bed bad enough that they were able to just keep on chugging along into a new new young core.

“There was not a lot of turnover before I came because the team was very good, so we had a bunch of 32- to 34-year-old players and then the kids we were drafting,” Benning said. “That’s tough to win with consistently. You need that age group from 22 to 28, those are players I feel you can win with. Some of the moves we made are going to work out really nice and some other moves didn’t work out, but that’s what we had to try to do to fill in that age group.”..Benning ,2016

 

[F A N]

You'd hope that the prospect whisperer could make a bit more hay with those 2nd rounders than wherever they ended up. Especially with the bare cupboards and so on. Even ignoring that, the value of the 2nd rounder at the time of the trade wasn't tied to which player ended up being picked and whatever happened to them however many years later.

And, yeah, Garrison for Vey sounds just as bad since they should have traded Garrison for a 2nd instead.

When did we have a "prospect whisperer?" Presumably, Vey would have been scouted by our pro scouts. Regardless, drafted players bust. Prospects bust. Vey was actually a real solid prospect. I don't remember hearing too many Kings fans thinking that Vey would bust. Questions over his NHL potential sure, but most Kings fans seemed confident that Vey would develop into a solid NHLer. Of course that was before we learned about Linden's dad conspiring with his lover to kill Linden's mother. That shit can F you up.

 

[RobertKron]

“There was not a lot of turnover before I came because the team was very good, so we had a bunch of 32- to 34-year-old players and then the kids we were drafting,” Benning said. “That’s tough to win with consistently. You need that age group from 22 to 28, those are players I feel you can win with. Some of the moves we made are going to work out really nice and some other moves didn’t work out, but that’s what we had to try to do to fill in that age group.”..Benning ,2016

I know this isn’t really a response, but I legitimately laughed out loud so I’m going to post this:

“you look at when teams get good and when they win, they win with 26 to 35-year-old players, and these are our best players, so I’m excited about the future.” -Jim Benning, 2019.

 

[Ninjadude]

Doesn't appear 15 million for 2 players is/will be enough. The longer this goes on, the worse it becomes for Van hockey.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I know this isn’t really a response, but I legitimately laughed out loud so I’m going to post this:

“you look at when teams get good and when they win, they win with 26 to 35-year-old players, and these are our best players, so I’m excited about the future.” -Jim Benning, 2019.

As usual...quotes get garbled, social media cherrypicks one line, and a certain segment of the fanbase loses their shit...Is JB talking about the 26-35 year old players as being his 'best players' , or his young core.?

The entire quote;
I think there’s a lot of hope for our team,” said Benning, “and you see our young players, the year Petey had, the year Boes had, Bo, I think, took another step. These are 20, 21-year-old kids — Quinn’s 19 — and you look at when teams get good and when they win, they win with 26 to 35-year-old players, and these are our best players, so I’m excited about the future.”

Seems to me he's just saying that most SC teams have a diverse age group in your roster ..He would know....Guys like Recchi and Thomas got him a SC ring.

 

[F A N]

I know this isn’t really a response, but I legitimately laughed out loud so I’m going to post this:

“you look at when teams get good and when they win, they win with 26 to 35-year-old players, and these are our best players, so I’m excited about the future.” -Jim Benning, 2019.

That's in the context of the core / the team's best players being young. He's not really wrong though.

Kucherov was 26 when he won his first Cup. Outside of Point who was younger, those Tampa Cup teams mostly featured players in that age group. Same applied to St. Louis and Washington before them.

I want to say the Penguins in 2009 was the Cup winning team where you could say that that team's best players are all 25 or under and if they manage to stay together they are likely to win a few more Cups together. It didn't quite apply to Chicago as well given Hossa, Sharp and their best Dmen and goaltender being in that older age group but you can make a case for that.

So outside of the two most successful franchises (by Cup victories) over the past 15 years, every other Cup winning team fits Benning's description.