Confirmed with Link: [VAN/ARI] Garland,OEL(12% retained) for 9th OA,2nd in 22,7th in 23,Beagle,Roussel,Eriksson (Part 2)

[mriswith]

The argument about older players being the key to the cup is so bizarre to me.

Any argument about how old the cup winning teams core was should be based off of how old those players were when that team became a contender. Winning a cup is luck, being a cup contender is not.

The reason the players are a bit older is because it takes a long window of being a contender to win a cup, even if you have a team that at the start of every season has a 60% chance of winning the cup (truly, extremely exceptional and probably has never happened) it's still likely to take a few years.

The last 5 years the cup winners were TBL, STL, WAS, PIT. How many years were those teams contenders and didn't win the cup before the year they did? Where are we in that life cycle compared to them?

Instead, it seems like the age argument gets used to duck the questions about how exactly this team will win a cup when it can't even become a contender in the first place. "The players will be older then!!!!" if you aren't a contender before they get older, this literally works against your argument, provided the argument is in good faith.

It also amazes me that people somehow believe that the manager who couldn't make the playoffs in 2/3 years with three star players on ELC's generating a ~20-25 mil cap advantage is somehow going to make that team a year in year out contender with almost no cap advantages now that all of those deals are over. Particularly when that managers primary method of "improving the defense", which has always been the weakest link and has needed improving and rebuilding every year of his 7 year tenure, is adding cap anchors that aren't worth their contracts, and even his staunchest supporters fear Bennings pen when free agency rolls around.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I don’t know how to make it simpler to understand. With the salary cap, you can only take in so much young talent. We have reached that saturation point, so the time is now to build around this young talent, otherwise we are going in circles

This is as stupid a take as any I've ever read on this board. It's beyond laughable to think that anybody could look at a team that barely escaped a bottom five finish last season and think: "Yep. Got all the young talent we'll need."

You *never* have enough young talent. Ever. Chicago was able to win three cups because they always had young talent coming up to replace the older talent that got too expensive to fit around their core. Yeah, it's a capped league. That's why getting good contributions from guys on ELCs is vital, and the more good young talent you have, the more likely you are to get them. Take a good look around here. The Canucks aren't up against the cap for having too many good young players to pay, they're there because Jimbo had to go out and overpay for washed-up vets for a lack of them. That's what happens when you chase quick fixes for seven bloody years.

It's truly amazing to see some of the same people who spend so much time moaning about how poor the prospect pool was in 2014 despite having a good team would be fine and dandy with having no prospect pool in 2021 when the team itself has been massively worse.

 

[logan5]

This is as stupid a take as any I've ever read on this board. It's beyond laughable to think that anybody could look at a team that barely escaped a bottom five finish last season and think: "Yep. Got all the young talent we'll need."

You *never* have enough young talent. Ever. Chicago was able to win three cups because they always had young talent coming up to replace the older talent that got too expensive to fit around their core. Yeah, it's a capped league. That's why getting good contributions from guys on ELCs is vital, and the more good young talent you have, the more likely you are to get them. Take a good look around here. The Canucks aren't up against the cap for having too many good young players to pay, they're there because Jimbo had to go out and overpay for washed-up vets for a lack of them. That's what happens when you chase quick fixes for seven bloody years.

It's truly amazing to see some of the same people who spend so much time moaning about how poor the prospect pool was in 2014 despite having a good team would be fine and dandy with having no prospect pool in 2021 when the team itself has been massively worse.

You obviously have a difference of opinion, but yes, at this point we have all the young talent we need to start making moves towards being a contender. We can afford to give up a 1st round pick to fill in those gaps because we have one of the best young cores in the league. You disagree with that as well, and that's fine, and I won't be a f***in' asshole telling you I disagree with you.

 

[GetFocht]

Studs.

Can't believe we got two high quality players for Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, and Guenther.

 

[M2Beezy]

Studs.

Can't believe we got two high quality players for Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, and Guenther.

Its almost like your post has less than half a truth

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This is as stupid a take as any I've ever read on this board. It's beyond laughable to think that anybody could look at a team that barely escaped a bottom five finish last season and think: "Yep. Got all the young talent we'll need."

You *never* have enough young talent. Ever. Chicago was able to win three cups because they always had young talent coming up to replace the older talent that got too expensive to fit around their core. Yeah, it's a capped league. That's why getting good contributions from guys on ELCs is vital, and the more good young talent you have, the more likely you are to get them. Take a good look around here. The Canucks aren't up against the cap for having too many good young players to pay, they're there because Jimbo had to go out and overpay for washed-up vets for a lack of them. That's what happens when you chase quick fixes for seven bloody years.

It's truly amazing to see some of the same people who spend so much time moaning about how poor the prospect pool was in 2014 despite having a good team would be fine and dandy with having no prospect pool in 2021 when the team itself has been massively worse.

It's not as laughable as your rant.

You're right..Chicago was able to draft young talent...They picked just as late (if not later than we did)...From 2008-13..They drafted these current NHL players;
Kevin Hayes
Brandon Saad
Brandon Pirri
Justin Holl
Andrew Shaw
Philip Danault
Vinny Hinostroza
Teuno Teravainen
Tyler Motte
Ryan Hartmann

All we had was a f***ing 'black hole' which contributed massively to the misery of the 2015-19 Canucks..Maybe we wouldnt have had to look for quick fixes if we had drafted even a 1/3 of this list.

Its a well known fact we barely had a prospect pool in 2014..You're clearly talking out of your posterior (again) if you think otherwise..

 

[VintageBure]

I still hate this trade.

 

[racerjoe]

It's not as laughable as your rant.

You're right..Chicago was able to draft young talent...They picked just as late (if not later than we did)...From 2008-13..They drafted these current NHL players;
Kevin Hayes
Brandon Saad
Brandon Pirri
Justin Holl
Andrew Shaw
Philip Danault
Vinny Hinostroza
Teuno Teravainen
Tyler Motte
Ryan Hartmann

All we had was a f***ing 'black hole' which contributed massively to the misery of the 2015-19 Canucks..Maybe we wouldnt have had to look for quick fixes if we had drafted even a 1/3 of this list.

Its a well known fact we barely had a prospect pool in 2014..You're clearly talking out of your posterior (again) if you think otherwise..

Look at that attempted deflection!

 

[M2Beezy]

Look at that attempted deflection!

Its what he does Joe

But Gillis. Amazing it can somehow still come up

 

[rickwiththe]

Studs.

Can't believe we got two high quality players for Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, and Guenther.

I'm sure this has already been discussed and mentioned around the critique of OEL: I can't recall thinking that OEL has played badly for team Sweden and his +- is pretty positive even during his darkest Arizona periods. Is it just a mental state?

Thoughts?

 

[mathonwy]

I sure hope that Podkolzin and Rathbone don’t become too good, then we would have to eventually pay them.

Pip playing 4D underwater parcheesi

 

[F A N]

The argument about older players being the key to the cup is so bizarre to me.

Any argument about how old the cup winning teams core was should be based off of how old those players were when that team became a contender. Winning a cup is luck, being a cup contender is not.

Are you saying that winning a Cup is pure luck?

The reason the players are a bit older is because it takes a long window of being a contender to win a cup, even if you have a team that at the start of every season has a 60% chance of winning the cup (truly, extremely exceptional and probably has never happened) it's still likely to take a few years.

The last 5 years the cup winners were TBL, STL, WAS, PIT. How many years were those teams contenders and didn't win the cup before the year they did? Where are we in that life cycle compared to them?

That's basically what I've been saying except we are drawing different conclusions with regards to the Canucks. The belief that you suck for years and then go all in and win a Cup is simply poor strategy. There are circumstances to a team like Crosby's Penguins doing it, but like Brian Burke said, the Penguins method is to win the draft lottery (it's not 100% true of course).

Whether a team is a "contender" is a bit subjective, but the idea is that you got to start somewhere. Right now, Bo is 26, Boeser is 24, Petey is turning 23, Hughes is turning 22, and Demko is turning 26. This is our window to build towards being real contenders. And things can change quickly. In 2007-2018 we missed the playoffs and most of us laughed when Gillis said that we were a few bold moves from contending. But he was right. We became the favourites to win in 2010-2011 even though we weren't really contenders in 2009-2010 or 2018-2019.

 

[Hodgy]

You obviously have a difference of opinion, but yes, at this point we have all the young talent we need to start making moves towards being a contender. We can afford to give up a 1st round pick to fill in those gaps because we have one of the best young cores in the league. You disagree with that as well, and that's fine, and I won't be a f***in' asshole telling you I disagree with you.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding on how the NHL works. And this has been pointed out to you and explained to you, but you still double down with this post? It’s almost impressive, albeit frustrating.

 

[logan5]

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding on how the NHL works. And this has been pointed out to you and explained to you, but you still double down with this post? It’s almost impressive, albeit frustrating.

Pointed out and explained by which experts? You guys talk as if your opinions are facts.

You can’t just keep collecting high draft picks. At some point you have to start making moves towards contending for a cup, and IMO that time is now. Our top 6 is set for years. Most here think we need to keep rebuilding or start a new rebuild or whatever. I disagree with that. Now we can still get prospects through the draft, but the time has past for this team drafting in the top 10 or 5.

 

[Pip]

Man we have Stamkos, Kucherov, Johnson, and Palat. Surely we don’t need any other high end forwards.

 

[racerjoe]

Man we have Stamkos, Kucherov, Johnson, and Palat. Surely we don’t need any other high end forwards.

Hey clearly after being a bottom 5 franchise the past 7 years means we are ready to contend.

 

[Peter10]

 

[MarkMM]

Studs.

Can't believe we got two high quality players for Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, and Guenther.

The reason you can't believe that is because that's not what happened.

We got one good player, one player who's been badly performing for years, and in exchange game them Guenther, agreeing to eat a monstrously stupid six years of cap overpayment, and two draft picks including a second on top of all that.

Hiding facts to make your case isn't a good look.

 

[krutovsdonut]

lol, that should cause a meltdown.

 

[Icebreakers]

Looks slower than Edler.

 

[VanillaCoke]

 

[John Johnson]

Damn he needs to get in shape and fast.

 

[nergish]

Looks slower than Edler.

Looks like his "game shape" is still Arizona-style.

 

[J Corso]

I can't wait for the first "Hindsight. There was no way to know that the OEL contract was going to be a disaster!" posts.

 

[mathonwy]

Looks ok if you combine Roussel, Beagle and Eriksson doing the same drill.