Value of: Trouba for T. Johnson +

[Gabe Kupari]

Jets dont do it for Kadri or Johnson.

Tampa likely does have a few maybe 4 guys who would make the Jets think plus a bunch of prospects

Point. Serg. Foote and Masin plus.. Cirelli etc..

 

[hector morrison]

Trouba has never publicly expressed a desire for any specific location. There have been plenty of rumours, none seem to have any substance behind them. My post was in reply to a poster who seems to think he knows what is in Trouba's mind.

We know that his GF is committed to 7 more years of school in South Florida. We know he owns a condo in Ft. Lauderdale. We know Florida has a warm climate and some tax advantages that make players easier to sign. Those are a few facts.

Well. I can see why the Florida rumor started then. Maybe that is his first choice, not his only choice!
I guess,making millions ,doing what you love to do ,being a part of a very good team. is somehow not enough! These players travel so much 9 months of the year that I don't get why their 'playing base' is so important. The other 3 months they can do whatever they want! Also,hockey careers on avg. aren't all that long! I mean,How much does this guy hate the Peg?

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Johnson is a 50 pt 2C, no argument. He also is weak defensively, very weak. That's what makes him borderline as a 2C.

I didn't use the word throw-in. Or cap dump. He is better than that. But he doesn't make the Jets better, so the only reason for Jets to accept him is to free up cap space for TBL. And the length of his contract makes that risky. Is an undersized C like him likely to be able to earn that contract for 6 more years - to the age of 34?

We could offer to take Callahan to free cap space, but TBL would likely want more term attached to the freed cap space and Jets would want an add if taking on Callahan.

What in gods name are you talking about? Johnson is not weak defensively... Where did this come from? Is it because Point is better but made Johnson look worse?

I personally don't think Johnson is enough for Trouba, and Tampa can't offer Winnipeg anything that they don't already have. Terrible trade partners.

 

[AndreRoy]

Great insults. Very mature way of getting a point across...

So you claim you agree with me that the trade would be turned down by the Jets, then end by saying I have no sense of what an equitable trade is?

1. Looking at a pending RFA as a 2 year rental shows you haven't got a clue when it comes to the economics of hockey.
2. Top-pairing, pending RFA Dmen are rarely traded. Way more rare then a player of Johnson's caliber.
3. When they are traded, they nearly always go for players better and younger than Johnson.
4. No you.

Clearly I’m wasting my time with you. Maybe when you grow up I’ll find your posts worth reading; until then welcome to my ignore list.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Johnson is a 50 pt 2C, no argument. He also is weak defensively, very weak. That's what makes him borderline as a 2C.

I didn't use the word throw-in. Or cap dump. He is better than that. But he doesn't make the Jets better, so the only reason for Jets to accept him is to free up cap space for TBL. And the length of his contract makes that risky. Is an undersized C like him likely to be able to earn that contract for 6 more years - to the age of 34?

We could offer to take Callahan to free cap space, but TBL would likely want more term attached to the freed cap space and Jets would want an add if taking on Callahan.

Johnson is not poor defensively that is a myth. He’s pretty average defensively for a center / above average when he plays wing. And if he was actually playing 2c he would have more than 50 points considering he did that while spending a lot of time with Killorn who he doesn’t click with.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I dont think they do them in order to help each other but teams do make trades to make their own teams better. That is the intention. So I just dont see 2 contenders dealing with each other. At least not ideally.

TBL are clearly in a win now mode. Trouba helps them do that. Quite a bit.

Jets have a problem with Trouba. Ideally, the solution would be a 1 for 1 with a Trouba like player. That isn't likely to happen. Jets best bet is to accept a promising RHD prospect and take their chances on him developing. That also means accepting a step back for a couple of years. TBL have that and other pieces to fill out the value and minimize the step back for Jets.

Both teams benefit if the issues of cap space and smoothing out the value can be resolved. The potential is there. The 2 GMs may or may not agree on the details.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

Clearly I’m wasting my time with you. Maybe when you grow up I’ll find your posts worth reading; until then welcome to my ignore list.

Ignoring people who disagree with you is a big factor of the polarization of opinions here. Posters like you are what's wrong with these boards. Can't take criticism, can't hear no, can't accept that Tyler Johnson isn't worth a significantly younger, better player because he's under team control for a few years more.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well. I can see why the Florida rumor started then. Maybe that is his first choice, not his only choice!
I guess,making millions ,doing what you love to do ,being a part of a very good team. is somehow not enough! These players travel so much 9 months of the year that I don't get why their 'playing base' is so important. The other 3 months they can do whatever they want! Also,hockey careers on avg. aren't all that long! I mean,How much does this guy hate the Peg?

He doesn't hate the Peg. He has stated that he wants to stay. He apparently wants more money than Chevy thinks he is worth in order to do so. There was an 8x8 rumour. His ask in arbitration was 7 mil so that is more likely the real number. If 7 would do it in Winnipeg then Florida would likely need about 6.5(ish) (taxes).

I agree that the nature of their careers makes their base less important than it might be for other people. There are obvious reasons for Trouba to have a preference for Florida but I think he would be willing to go to any good team. I doubt he would want to go to a team starting a rebuild.

 

[CupsOverCash]

TBL are clearly in a win now mode. Trouba helps them do that. Quite a bit.

Jets have a problem with Trouba. Ideally, the solution would be a 1 for 1 with a Trouba like player. That isn't likely to happen. Jets best bet is to accept a promising RHD prospect and take their chances on him developing. That also means accepting a step back for a couple of years. TBL have that and other pieces to fill out the value and minimize the step back for Jets.

Both teams benefit if the issues of cap space and smoothing out the value can be resolved. The potential is there. The 2 GMs may or may not agree on the details.

If there is a deal to be made that makes both sides happy great. I just think in general we dont see contenders deal with each other. I mean I dont really remember too many off the top of my head do you??

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What in gods name are you talking about? Johnson is not weak defensively... Where did this come from? Is it because Point is better but made Johnson look worse?

I personally don't think Johnson is enough for Trouba, and Tampa can't offer Winnipeg anything that they don't already have. Terrible trade partners.

I disagree - on both points. I think the reasons have been stated.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Kadri > Johnson

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Johnson is not poor defensively that is a myth. He’s pretty average defensively for a center / above average when he plays wing. And if he was actually playing 2c he would have more than 50 points considering he did that while spending a lot of time with Killorn who he doesn’t click with.

I guess we could go back and forth on how good Johnson is, or isn't. He isn't better than Little so he doesn't fill a need for the Jets. So there isn't much point in arguing about whether Johnson is good or bad defensively.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think Johnson is being a tad underrated in this thread. He can be a #1 center for a team and he has done it here. I wouldnt call him a #1 Center but if you ask him to do it he can. He had to in 2016-17 both years when Stamkos went down and did it well. We went to the ECF against Pittsburgh with TJ as our #1 Center. I wouldnt put him as THE centerpiece in a Trouba trade but he most definitely isnt some cap dump.

 

[hector morrison]

He doesn't hate the Peg. He has stated that he wants to stay. He apparently wants more money than Chevy thinks he is worth in order to do so. There was an 8x8 rumour. His ask in arbitration was 7 mil so that is more likely the real number. If 7 would do it in Winnipeg then Florida would likely need about 6.5(ish) (taxes).

I agree that the nature of their careers makes their base less important than it might be for other people. There are obvious reasons for Trouba to have a preference for Florida but I think he would be willing to go to any good team. I doubt he would want to go to a team starting a rebuild.

Could be,but that 5.5 decision likely adds animosity to the situation. It's plain to see he thinks he is better than management does? I would trade any unhappy camper because a team doesn't need that distraction,but Chevy doesn't have to and now he has a decent Dman for 5.5. As long as Trouba can be professional about it,then it may ok to keep him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If there is a deal to be made that makes both sides happy great. I just think in general we dont see contenders deal with each other. I mean I dont really remember too many off the top of my head do you??

Not off the top of my head, granted. But my memory is not great.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Could be,but that 5.5 decision likely adds animosity to the situation. It's plain to see he thinks he is better than management does? I would trade any unhappy camper because a team doesn't need that distraction,but Chevy doesn't have to and now he has a decent Dman for 5.5. As long as Trouba can be professional about it,then it may ok to keep him.

I think Trouba will be professional. He has been through his previous contract after a holdout.

I still prefer to trade him sooner rather than later but we don't need a distress sale. He could be traded after this season for a still good package.

Like TBL, Jets are in win now mode and Trouba certainly improves the chances.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

I think Johnson is being a tad underrated in this thread. He can be a #1 center for a team and he has done it here. I wouldnt call him a #1 Center but if you ask him to do it he can. He had to in 2016-17 both years when Stamkos went down and did it well. We went to the ECF against Pittsburgh with TJ as our #1 Center. I wouldnt put him as THE centerpiece in a Trouba trade but he most definitely isnt some cap dump.

This is a reasonable outlook on Johnson and sounds like our view of Little. I wouldn't want them as my 1C, although they can fill in in a pinch. I wasn't trying to make him sound like a cap dump.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Jets dont do it for Kadri or Johnson.

Tampa likely does have a few maybe 4 guys who would make the Jets think plus a bunch of prospects

Point. Serg. Foote and Masin plus.. Cirelli etc..

Point is a no. Serg is a no. Cirelli probably a no.

 

[hector morrison]

I think Trouba will be professional. He has been through his previous contract after a holdout.

I still prefer to trade him sooner rather than later but we don't need a distress sale. He could be traded after this season for a still good package.

Like TBL, Jets are in win now mode and Trouba certainly improves the chances.

Yes he appears to be a professional,not talking to the media about it and what not,,,,,So, what do you figure he returns ? Do you have any players in mind or strictly picks/prospects...just curious as to what Jets fans expect,given whats known.

 

[Hunter368]

I think Johnson is being a tad underrated in this thread. He can be a #1 center for a team and he has done it here. I wouldnt call him a #1 Center but if you ask him to do it he can. He had to in 2016-17 both years when Stamkos went down and did it well. We went to the ECF against Pittsburgh with TJ as our #1 Center. I wouldnt put him as THE centerpiece in a Trouba trade but he most definitely isnt some cap dump.

Lowry I think played #1C for us 1-2 games over the years, doesn’t make him a 1C either. I don’t think anyone here has called Johnson a cap dump, he isn’t. I don’t think Johnson would do well in a very physical central, just my opinion. Certainly would never be the main piece as a return for Trouba or any top pairing Young D imo.

So I don’t think he’s being under rated, he’s been seen as a ok 2C and a complementary piece on a team.....which isn’t a bad thing.....he’s just not a good young core piece like Trouba is.....which isn’t meant as a insult to him.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Lowry I think played #1C for us 1-2 games over the years, doesn’t make him a 1C either. I don’t think anyone here has called Johnson a cap dump, he isn’t. I don’t think Johnson would do well in a very physical central, just my opinion. Certainly would never be the main piece as a return for Trouba or any top pairing Young D imo.

So I don’t think he’s being under rated, he’s been seen as a ok 2C and a complementary piece on a team.....which isn’t a bad thing.....he’s just not a good young core piece like Trouba is.....which isn’t meant as a insult to him.

Except Johnson didn't just play 1-2 games as our 1 center. He was our #1 center for an entire cup run that resulted in a game 7 loss to the 2 time Stanley cup champion Pens in the ecf. He also was our number 1 center the majority of the season after when we had an injury plagued season that resulted in 1 point from a playoff berth. He is really good.

We just have had some luck getting Stamkos number 1 overall and Point was had in round 3 and is better than Johnson. That's why TJ is even being considered as a trade. He is also responsible for some of the greatest playoff performances in our franchise history. No hes not going to fetch a top D prospect but hes definitely not some easy throw in for some team just because as have an abundance of good centers.

 

[Hunter368]

Except Johnson didn't just play 1-2 games as our 1 center. He was our #1 center for an entire cup run that resulted in a game 7 loss to the 2 time Stanley cup champion Pens in the ecf. He also was our number 1 center the majority of the season after when we had an injury plagued season that resulted in 1 point from a playoff berth. He is really good.

We just have had some luck getting Stamkos number 1 overall and Point was had in round 3 and is better than Johnson. That's why TJ is even being considered as a trade. He is also responsible for some of the greatest playoff performances in our franchise history. No hes not going to fetch a top D prospect but hes definitely not some easy throw in for some team just because as have an abundance of good centers.

As you say yourself he’s not a 1C, he just isn’t a fit in a trade for Trouba. I have no interest insulting another player or talking in circles. I responded to your post just to say no one is calling him a cap dump, people are just saying he isn’t going to return any top pairing young D like Trouba. Cheers

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes he appears to be a professional,not talking to the media about it and what not,,,,,So, what do you figure he returns ? Do you have any players in mind or strictly picks/prospects...just curious as to what Jets fans expect,given whats known.

Jets fans expectations run the gammut. I think a top RHD prospect, like Foote should be the main piece. I'd like a Sergachev, but I don't think that is realistic. With Foote we should get an add. Decent but not huge. If we take back a cap dump, like Callahan the add gets bigger.

How about Foote plus Stralman? He becomes surplus if TBL has Trouba. His cap almost covers Trouba and that gives TBL a year to clear more space.

He fills Trouba's spot on the Jets while Foote develops. Jets may keep him longer if his contract requirements are acceptable.

That would actually be a little disappointing for many Jets fans - unless Foote turns out a little better than expected. But it might be the best solution we could get under the circumstances.

It certainly makes Tampa better. It leaves them with cap issues to deal with but I don't think that is insurmountable. Coburn and Girardi expire in a year and Callahan a year later. We have heard so much about how good Johnson is. Trade him to someone who needs that kind of C. Problem solved.

 

[CupsOverCash]

As you say yourself he’s not a 1C, he just isn’t a fit in a trade for Trouba. I have no interest insulting another player or talking in circles. I responded to your post just to say no one is calling him a cap dump, people are just saying he isn’t going to return any top pairing young D like Trouba. Cheers

No, thanks for the response, I should been more specific about what I was responding in your response. I was responding to what seemed like a comparison of Lowry and Johnson. Just didnt agree with it. I think the main point I was trying to make about Johnson was that even though hes not a 1C as we both agree, he still means a lot to our franchise. Huge fan favorite and the only reason we were even discussing trading him was to free up space for a good RHD like Karlsson or Trouba. Which is in demand in most teams it seems. Just dont know what kind of deal SY would be interested in.

 

[AndreRoy]

Jets fans expectations run the gammut. I think a top RHD prospect, like Foote should be the main piece. I'd like a Sergachev, but I don't think that is realistic. With Foote we should get an add. Decent but not huge. If we take back a cap dump, like Callahan the add gets bigger.

How about Foote plus Stralman? He becomes surplus if TBL has Trouba. His cap almost covers Trouba and that gives TBL a year to clear more space.

He fills Trouba's spot on the Jets while Foote develops. Jets may keep him longer if his contract requirements are acceptable.

That would actually be a little disappointing for many Jets fans - unless Foote turns out a little better than expected. But it might be the best solution we could get under the circumstances.

It certainly makes Tampa better. It leaves them with cap issues to deal with but I don't think that is insurmountable. Coburn and Girardi expire in a year and Callahan a year later. We have heard so much about how good Johnson is. Trade him to someone who needs that kind of C. Problem solved.

You aren’t getting Foote unless Trouba is signed to a longterm deal before the trade goes through - we aren’t gambling the future of our top pairing on the possibility that we might be able to agree on an extension.

And Stralman is a top pairing defenseman with one year of team control while Trouba is a top pairing defenseman with two years of team control; Trouba is more valuable but the difference between them is not Foote (and before you say it the age difference is not a significant factor when neither is signed to a longterm deal.) You can have Stralman+ for an unsigned Trouba or Foote+ for a signed Trouba but you aren’t getting both for an unsigned Trouba.

Finally you’re drastically underestimating our cap difficulties: Callahan’s, Stralman’s, Coburn’s, and Girardi’s cap space is already accounted for to keep the players we currently have and even then we’ll still need to move Miller after next season. So to make room for Trouba we’d have to trade both Johnson and Killorn (both of whom have full NTCs) or possibly trade one of them and let Gourde walk, depending on how much Trouba wants.