Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part IV)

[Lafleurs Guy]

I still maintain Galchenyuk would be a better player today if he didn't have Therrien as his coach.

There may be some IQ issues that we missed because well, he was injured almost his entire draft year..

But Therrien is such a black hole for player development when it relates to skill. It's a huge what if.

There's no doubt in my mind he'd be a legit number one center. He demonstrated it repeatedly in the opportunities he was given. He might not have been the two way guy that I think KK will be but he'd have been near a point per game 30 goal guy.

Anyways, he's gone and so is SL. So we're in better shape than we were going forward at least.

 

[Rafafouille]

I still maintain Galchenyuk would be a better player today if he didn't have Therrien as his coach.

There may be some IQ issues that we missed because well, he was injured almost his entire draft year..

But Therrien is such a black hole for player development when it relates to skill. It's a huge what if.

Crosby in his second nhl year has his best season ever at 120 points, malkin won the Calder with 85 points, Staal as a 18 years old put up 29 goals which he never beat in his career since. All with mickey black hole therrien coaching.

The Habs had the worst prospect pool of the nhl by a wide margin. The blame isn't on terrien, it's in Timmins being terrible during that span.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Crosby in his second nhl year has his best season ever at 120 points, malkin won the Calder with 85 points, Staal as a 18 years old put up 29 goals which he never beat in his career since. All with mickey black hole therrien coaching.

The Habs had the worst prospect pool of the nhl by a wide margin. The blame isn't on terrien, it's in Timmins being terrible during that span.

Oh yeah, Therrien had such a huge hand in developing two of the best prospects in NHL history lmao.

Staal got 29 goals playing on a stacked team, exploiting favorable match-ups behind two of the best C's to ever play the game. He didn't replicate it because his PDO fell and Black Hole Therrien failed to help him elevate his offensive game beyond what it was.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I wanted Rielly and was pretty vocal about that. I wasn't disappointed in the Chucky pick though.

But there was no agreement. There were people who thought we should take Trouba and others liked Forsberg. That was a draft where there was little actual agreement.

I didn’t mind Chucky but thought he was being way overrated. Forsberg was my highest grade but I understood the need for a C.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I didn’t mind Chucky but thought he was being way overrated. Forsberg was my highest grade but I understood the need for a C.

He was injured the majority of his draft year, so people were basing it off his 16 year old season, and the few games he played in the playoffs. He was ranked mid-first for awhile yet somehow rose without even playing - even in scouts eyes; afterall he did go 3rd overall.

 

[ProMath]

Oh yeah, Therrien had such a huge hand in developing two of the best prospects in NHL history lmao.

Staal got 29 goals playing on a stacked team, exploiting favorable match-ups behind two of the best C's to ever play the game. He didn't replicate it because his PDO fell and Black Hole Therrien failed to help him elevate his offensive game beyond what it was.

So basically...Therrien has nothing to do with Crosby/Malkin Success because they were so good...

But Therrien has everything to do with Chuky Failure ?

I don’t like Therrien...but Chuky not being a number one C is not Therrien fault. Chuky obviously had some issue.

That draft was just bad. Timmins still managed to get the 2nd best player that year

 

[MD thaivuN]

So basically...Therrien has nothing to do with Crosby/Malkin Success because they were so good...

But Therrien has everything to do with Chuky Failure ?

I don’t like Therrien...but Chuky not being a number one C is not Therrien fault. Chuky obviously had some issue.

That draft was just bad. Timmins still managed to get the 2nd best player that year

Thing with coaches is that I don't think we should rate them on the scale how good they are, but rather how bad they are. IMO good coaching doesn't have as large of an impact people think, but bad coaching has larger negative impacts. it's hard to make things better, but always easy to screw things up.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

So basically...Therrien has nothing to do with Crosby/Malkin Success because they were so good...

But Therrien has everything to do with Chuky Failure ?

I don’t like Therrien...but Chuky not being a number one C is not Therrien fault. Chuky obviously had some issue.

That draft was just bad. Timmins still managed to get the 2nd best player that year

Therrien had the Pens out of the playoffs and bottom third in the league across the board when he was fired. After his firing that club went top ten everywhere for the rest of the season and won the cup.

He's not just bad, he's God awful bad. He's the difference between winning the cup and missing the playoffs bad. When he joins teams they experience a five point drop in puck possession and when he leaves there's a five point rise. He's terrible. There's no way in God's green earth that our clubs should've been bottom third the way they were. Galchenyuk consistently produced when given opportunities on the first line only to find himself thrown back down.

Therrien is the worst coach we've ever had. He's worse than Tremblay was. He fails at development, roster management and systems. And he's a cancer in the dressing room. He's the worst thing that ever happened to our roster. If we'd had anyone else we'd have done better. I won't say that Chuck would've succeeded under anyone else but I think any coach who'd have given him a chance would've reaped some good rewards out of it. Therrien got the absolute least that he could out of those lineups and if not for Carey Price he'd have been fired years earlier. It was horrible to watch him ruin those teams.

I'm not a huge fan of Julien's but he's better than Therrien was. And at least we don't have SL in the minors anymore. Our kids will be better off just for that.

Don't you find it weird that we went from one of the best drafting teams to suddenly one of the worst when the MT/SL combo came in? Isn't it strange that a can't miss guy like Leblanc suddenly forget how to play hockey? Development matters and we got two of the worst guys we could possibly get to "teach" these kids. They were a disaster. And as bad as SL was, if you got past him you had to deal with Therrien in the NHL. It's an out of the frying pan into the fire disaster.

 

[ahmedou]

Could draft all the greatest picks of the world. When those youngsters are undeveloped by the dev corporation it's like you did nothing...

 

[Tiger Svoboda]

Can’t believe some still pretend Galchy was a 1st line center. The guy has some skills but he’s not a good hockey player. He doesn’t use players around him at all and a black hole on defense. Therien has nothing to do with that.

 

[26Mats]

Can’t believe some still pretend Galchy was a 1st line center. The guy has some skills but he’s not a good hockey player. He doesn’t use players around him at all and a black hole on defense. Therien has nothing to do with that.

The book is still out on Galchneyuk, imo. Look at the season Domi had in Arizona last year. He may fade into oblivion. But let's not jump to conclusions before he actually does. He had 1 really good season in Montreal. Then, the next year, playing with Radulov, before his knee injury, he was top 10 in the league in scoring. The next year, he wasn't very good, on a horrible Montreal team and with Drouin, Danault, and DLR as his centers, but still put up 50 points. Then he had a not good year this year in Arizona. This is hardly enough to throw in the towel on him. You may be right. But let's at least not jump to conclusions.

 

[Scriptor]

There's no doubt in my mind he'd be a legit number one center. He demonstrated it repeatedly in the opportunities he was given. He might not have been the two way guy that I think KK will be but he'd have been near a point per game 30 goal guy.

Anyways, he's gone and so is SL. So we're in better shape than we were going forward at least.

I still maintain that Galchenyuk would be a better player today if he didn't have his father as his coach.

 

[Scriptor]

Therrien had the Pens out of the playoffs and bottom third in the league across the board when he was fired. After his firing that club went top ten everywhere for the rest of the season and won the cup.

He's not just bad, he's God awful bad. He's the difference between winning the cup and missing the playoffs bad. When he joins teams they experience a five point drop in puck possession and when he leaves there's a five point rise. He's terrible. There's no way in God's green earth that our clubs should've been bottom third the way they were. Galchenyuk consistently produced when given opportunities on the first line only to find himself thrown back down.

Therrien is the worst coach we've ever had. He's worse than Tremblay was. He fails at development, roster management and systems. And he's a cancer in the dressing room. He's the worst thing that ever happened to our roster. If we'd had anyone else we'd have done better. I won't say that Chuck would've succeeded under anyone else but I think any coach who'd have given him a chance would've reaped some good rewards out of it. Therrien got the absolute least that he could out of those lineups and if not for Carey Price he'd have been fired years earlier. It was horrible to watch him ruin those teams.

I'm not a huge fan of Julien's but he's better than Therrien was. And at least we don't have SL in the minors anymore. Our kids will be better off just for that.

Don't you find it weird that we went from one of the best drafting teams to suddenly one of the worst when the MT/SL combo came in? Isn't it strange that a can't miss guy like Leblanc suddenly forget how to play hockey? Development matters and we got two of the worst guys we could possibly get to "teach" these kids. They were a disaster. And as bad as SL was, if you got past him you had to deal with Therrien in the NHL. It's an out of the frying pan into the fire disaster.

Galchenyuk was a negative goal differential black hole on top of being a defensive black hole. Basically, when he scored a lot of points, his line also gave up even more goals.

Any skilled forward that cheats will usually have a marked uptick in points.

We should all give it a rest when it comes to elevating Galchenyuk to Star player status.He just does not have the overall game for that.

Skilled players who have an uptick in production and give up more goals than they better their stats with are cheating.

Skilled players that have an uptick in production, but still outscore opposing lines are progressing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Galchenyuk was a negative goal differential black hole on top of being a defensive black hole.

We should've used him on the top line with Max and Gallagher. We had PK and Markov on the back end to go along with Price. He could've learned to play the position and we'd have been all the better for it. He never would've been a Pavel Datsyuk but he would've been a lot better than he is.

 

[Andrei79]

We should've used him on the top line with Max and Gallagher. We had PK and Markov on the back end to go along with Price. He could've learned to play the position and we'd have been all the better for it. He never would've been a Pavel Datsyuk but he would've been a lot better than he is.

We made some poor investments in Plekanec and Desharnais. We should have prioritized Galchenyuk on the top line as you said and Eller on the third. Plekanec and Desharnais would have been good pieces to trade. Plekanec was worth at least a 1st at the time and I would guess we could have added a second for Desharnais.

Those assets, along with some of the prospects we didn't yet know would bust, could have been spent trying to add a center and a scorer for the second line. One of those players could have been Jagr, who was up for the taking for free. That was a period where trading firsts and seconds for additional core players would have been absolutely fine.

And just like that, we'd have a competing core needing only some tweaks on the backend.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We made some poor investments in Plekanec and Desharnais. We should have prioritized Galchenyuk on the top line as you said and Eller on the third. Plekanec and Desharnais would have been good pieces to trade. Plekanec was worth at least a 1st at the time and I would guess we could have added a second for Desharnais.

Those assets, along with some of the prospects we didn't yet know would bust, could have been spent trying to add a center and a scorer for the second line. One of those players could have been Jagr, who was up for the taking for free. That was a period where trading firsts and seconds for additional core players would have been absolutely fine.

And just like that, we'd have a competing core needing only some tweaks on the backend.

Jagr would've been really good to add to that young team. Esp with his training regimen. But... he was "too fancy" for us. And we went with... Briere. A center we used on the wing.

Hmmm... maybe we should've just gotten the winger instead?

 

[ProMath]

Therrien had the Pens out of the playoffs and bottom third in the league across the board when he was fired. After his firing that club went top ten everywhere for the rest of the season and won the cup.

He's not just bad, he's God awful bad. He's the difference between winning the cup and missing the playoffs bad. When he joins teams they experience a five point drop in puck possession and when he leaves there's a five point rise. He's terrible. There's no way in God's green earth that our clubs should've been bottom third the way they were. Galchenyuk consistently produced when given opportunities on the first line only to find himself thrown back down.

Therrien is the worst coach we've ever had. He's worse than Tremblay was. He fails at development, roster management and systems. And he's a cancer in the dressing room. He's the worst thing that ever happened to our roster. If we'd had anyone else we'd have done better. I won't say that Chuck would've succeeded under anyone else but I think any coach who'd have given him a chance would've reaped some good rewards out of it. Therrien got the absolute least that he could out of those lineups and if not for Carey Price he'd have been fired years earlier. It was horrible to watch him ruin those teams.

I'm not a huge fan of Julien's but he's better than Therrien was. And at least we don't have SL in the minors anymore. Our kids will be better off just for that.

Don't you find it weird that we went from one of the best drafting teams to suddenly one of the worst when the MT/SL combo came in? Isn't it strange that a can't miss guy like Leblanc suddenly forget how to play hockey? Development matters and we got two of the worst guys we could possibly get to "teach" these kids. They were a disaster. And as bad as SL was, if you got past him you had to deal with Therrien in the NHL. It's an out of the frying pan into the fire disaster.

I agree that a bad coach can be bad for a player development.

All I was sayings is Therrien is not the main reason Chuky did not succeed.

Maybe you won’t accept the anology... but do you blame the AHL coach of the lightning of Tampa Bay because Drouin did not become the dominant player he was supposed to be ? Or the organization for not giving him the opportunity on a top 6 role (same thing we say habs didn’t do with Chuky).

Yes I know, tampa roster isn’t in the same situation. The point is, just like Drouin, it’s more (way more) on the player to find a way to succeed.

If the player isn't happy and think the coach/management isn’t good for him..you simply ask for a trade...see Drouin. Did Tampa ruined Drouin because they didn’t trade him right away ? Obviously not. Was it the best scenario for Drouin, obviously not.

As for Leblanc, I never saw an NHL player in him, that my personal opinion. « Can’t miss guy like Leblanc »...if that is your thinking...there is nothing that will change your opinion. Draft history is plenty of those Can’t miss....

 

[Scriptor]

We should've used him on the top line with Max and Gallagher. We had PK and Markov on the back end to go along with Price. He could've learned to play the position and we'd have been all the better for it. He never would've been a Pavel Datsyuk but he would've been a lot better than he is.

Galchenyuk could've been better defensively, that's for sure. It would've been hard for him to be worse. As much as I'd like to blame management and coaching exclusively for that like sone of you do, it reeks of the player himself and, more specifically, his family environment. Pretty sure there was no real support of hunkering down and concentrating on the D-side of the game from the interfering father. Everyone knows that Offense pays on contracts and the Galchenyuk family depended heavily on Galchenyuk while he was growing up in Montreal.

Galchenyuk's development wasn't perfect -- far from it -- but I think there's plenty of blame on both sides.

 

[Whitesnake]

How about that Alex Barré-Boulet Trevor and Bergie? Wonder why we are so hesitant to have plenty of confidence in that management.....That kid, they've seen him 1000 times. But nope....Alex Alain was the guy to get!!!! lolll

 

[cujo1117]

How about that Alex Barré-Boulet Trevor and Bergie? Wonder why we are so hesitant to have plenty of confidence in that management.....That kid, they've seen him 1000 times. But nope....Alex Alain was the guy to get!!!! lolll

dont remember exactly but didnt barre-boulet choose tampa over montreal?

 

[Whitesnake]

dont remember exactly but didnt barre-boulet choose tampa over montreal?

He chose it 'cause Habs had no interest in him. And when they started having interest in him WAY after Tampa did, it was to offer him a AHL contract. That's how INTERESTED the Habs were. In the meantime, we signed plugs like Alain and Waked. And those are not draft picks. Those are guys you have A LOT OF time to watch....and people wonder why I'm skeptic....

 

[Andrei79]

He chose it 'cause Habs had no interest in him. And when they started having interest in him WAY after Tampa did, it was to offer him a AHL contract. That's how INTERESTED the Habs were. In the meantime, we signed plugs like Alain and Waked. And those are not draft picks. Those are guys you have A LOT OF time to watch....and people wonder why I'm skeptic....

Don't forget Verbeek. Cause there are always spots for a friends family.

 

[ahmedou]

Bruins are a bunch of lucky bastards. But Habs had in the past the opportunity to draft Bergeron, Marchand,McAvoy, Lucic instead of Urquhart, Lapierre, Sergachev or Maxwell......

Thank you Trevor Timmins !

Timmins doesn't develop his draftees...

 

[1909]

Timmins doesn't develop his draftees...

You can't develop what has no potential to be developed ..... Timmins should had been fired a decade ago.

 

[ahmedou]

You can't develop what has no potential to be developed ..... Timmins should had been fired a decade ago.

It depends. For which reasons he should be fired?