Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part IV)

[DramaticGloveSave]

TT drafted Blais? lol And yeah, Romanov IS the first unknown since Mark Streit to have a chance at success. Everybody else that Timmins drafted that were WTF picks, STAYED WTF picks.

And Koberstein has all the tools to be a stud? Based on what? You know him? You've seen him play? Or for you, 6'2'' is ALL THE TOOLS to be a stud? lolll

Jordan Harris and Primeau look pretty good.

 

[Whitesnake]

Jordan Harris and Primeau look pretty good.

Not talking about recently. We still have to wait. Romanov is one WTF canadidate big time and he looks awesome. Primeau? Not really. Primeau is a faller that shouldn't have fall that much. Was on a lot of radar on Scouting lists. Harris? Absolutely. But we'll wait with him if you don't mind. Still needs to prove that he's a much better version than Mac Bennett. But he surprised me this year for sure.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

Habs U21:

Forwards:
Kotkaniemi
Suzuki
Poehling
Ylönen
Ikonen
Olofsson
Teasdale
Fonstad
McShane
Hillis

Defensemen
Mete
Romanov
Brook
Fleury
Tyszka
Harris
Walford

Goalies
Primeau

Our prospect pool is looking great. Great talent with lots of depth. Kotka has the potential to be a bonafide 1C. Once we add that high-end young player, we're going to be set for years.

 

[ahmedou]

Habs U21:

Forwards:
Kotkaniemi
Suzuki
Poehling
Ylönen
Ikonen
Olofsson
Teasdale
Fonstad
McShane
Hillis

Defensemen
Mete
Romanov
Brook
Fleury
Tyszka
Harris
Walford

Goalies
Primeau

Our prospect pool is looking great. Great talent with lots of depth. Kotka has the potential to be a bonafide 1C. Once we add that high-end young player, we're going to be set for years.

It's just our prediction. It's not a fact. I can't say that before I saw them prove us right by performing with the pros over many years.

 

[Whitesnake]

Just in reference to people who keep saying, OBVIOUSLY IN HINDSIGHT, how NOW we have a great prospect pool and that we never had something close to this ever.....Have fun. And have fun reading the comments from our own posters. By the way, not laughing at anybody here. I also thought 2012 was a dream draft. Not my point. Just saying...it's incredibly false to think that we NEVER had anything that looked good. We did. Until it didn't. For the record, I do NOT think that what we have right now will fail. It should not. But when you try to analyse something, just be sure you are doing it with the same levels of analysis.

Team Rankings: Minnesota Wild owns impressive group of prospects with elite potential - Hockey's Future
News Article: - Habs 8th in Hockey's Future Team Prospect Rankings

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

TT drafted Blais? lol And yeah, Romanov IS the first unknown since Mark Streit to have a chance at success. Everybody else that Timmins drafted that were WTF picks, STAYED WTF picks.

And Koberstein has all the tools to be a stud? Based on what? You know him? You've seen him play? Or for you, 6'2'' is ALL THE TOOLS to be a stud? lolll

I still blame development for this. Up until the new regime came in TT had tons of success. Once dumdum left then all of a sudden we're able to produce talent again.

I still think SL and Therrien were largely to blame for our problems.

 

[Whitesnake]

I still blame development for this. Up until the new regime came in TT had tons of success. Once dumdum left then all of a sudden we're able to produce talent again.

I still think SL and Therrien were largely to blame for our problems.

Well I don't entirely agree. I don't think any coach has the power to turn a medicore player into a hall of famer, or a hall of famer into a medicore player. I think that we are giving coaches too much importance. Mind you, I have no doubts that you probalby could have taken a few guys and made them fillers or at worst very good AHL'ers. Something we were even unable to do.

 

[ahmedou]

Everybody had their part of responsibility. From what happened. Turning that page and moving forward.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Galchenyuk was touted as a Kopitar style centre who would have probably gone 1st overall if he wasn't injured. He was nothing like Kaliyev or Wahlstrom as a prospect.

Touted on this board perhaps... it was a weak draft, and I don't think Galchenyuk was a bad pick per se, but he definitely was overrated on this board. His best trait by far was his rifle shot- and like I've said, that's the trait that gets players overvalued the most... throw in the fact he was coming off of a major knee injury, and I really am not surprised he became what he became.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Lernout over Point. In the same league.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

If we have learned anything with Timmins drafting history, they will go after safer picks. Character, Attitude, Skating, Skill, Smarts. I think they are off the size bandwagon now though cause they fell into a trap with this over the years.

Hope we hit with this 15th pick. We don't have a good track record at hitting with mid range 1st round picks for a while now.

I'd be OK with Kaliyev but not sure they would pick him.

We've definitely had some gambles... Scherbak was a classic Russian skilled guy gamble...

But I do think they've figured it out. These last 2 drafts have been fantastic. They are just identifying great all around players and taking them. And in regards to Tkachuk last year, he probably would have been the pick if not for the center factor.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

Touted on this board perhaps... it was a weak draft, and I don't think Galchenyuk was a bad pick per se, but he definitely was overrated on this board. His best trait by far was his rifle shot- and like I've said, that's the trait that gets players overvalued the most... throw in the fact he was coming off of a major knee injury, and I really am not surprised he became what he became.

I just did a quick search to find a few examples.

NHL Draft Prospect Profile #4: Alex Galchenyuk - Last Word on Sports
They had him at #4 and said his max potential is a Toews like centre.

NHL Draft 2012 Prospects: #2 Alex Galchenyuk
Had him #2 and said he's a playmaker first and foremost and a great 2 way player.

I think you're very off base about what Galchenyuk was in his draft year. He was and away from a one dimensional goal scorer.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Touted on this board perhaps... it was a weak draft, and I don't think Galchenyuk was a bad pick per se, but he definitely was overrated on this board. His best trait by far was his rifle shot- and like I've said, that's the trait that gets players overvalued the most... throw in the fact he was coming off of a major knee injury, and I really am not surprised he became what he became.

I wanted Rielly and was pretty vocal about that. I wasn't disappointed in the Chucky pick though.

But there was no agreement. There were people who thought we should take Trouba and others liked Forsberg. That was a draft where there was little actual agreement.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I wanted Rielly and was pretty vocal about that. I wasn't disappointed in the Chucky pick though.

But there was no agreement. There were people who thought we should take Trouba and others liked Forsberg. That was a draft where there was little actual agreement.

Some people wanted Murray. Which I think would have been the worst choice of the bunch.

 

[Andrei79]

I wanted Rielly and was pretty vocal about that. I wasn't disappointed in the Chucky pick though.

But there was no agreement. There were people who thought we should take Trouba and others liked Forsberg. That was a draft where there was little actual agreement.

Good call on Rielly. Everytime I watch him on the Leafs I'm jealous. He's a stud.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Some people wanted Murray. Which I think would have been the worst choice of the bunch.

For sure, but we were looking for LHD even then.

I remember a few wanted Dumba though.

I was happy with Chuck but my man crush was Forsberg. Still think Chuck had a similar ceiling but hey.

Yeah, no idea why Forsberg fell. People started doubting his offensive abilities all of a sudden. Maybe there's hope for Boldy "product of Hughes" falling to us.

Good call on Rielly. Everytime I watch him on the Leafs I'm jealous. He's a stud.

Pretty sure @Whitesnake wanted Rielly too, and thought we should strongly consider Trouba.

It was a tough draft and board was all over the place.

Pretty similar to this year actually. There's no consensus. Some want York. For some he's ND in 1st. Some want Caufield. Others think his size will be an issue. It's a tough draft. Lots of similar type players.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yeah, no idea why Forsberg fell. People started doubting his offensive abilities all of a sudden. Maybe there's hope for Boldy "product of Hughes" falling to us.

The offensive concerns about Forsberg manifested themselves during his draft year. He had 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 points for the longest time. I can't remember exactly but it was like until january or something crazy like that. This wasn't the SHL, it was the Allsvenskan. It was a huge red flag. And then the U18s rolled around and he was held off the score sheet the first couple games. I remember some people were saying that we should take Collberg ahead of Forsberg.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Which is why people can't just go by u18s. Zegras hasn't looked great there (albeit 1 game), but neither has Heinola. Have to look at the full body of work. What they bring skill wise, etc.

That was sort of the issue with Forsberg. Eventually he put things together at the U18s and in the second half of the season. But with such a huge blank (seriously, he didn't score a goal anywhere, not even junior since coming back from the Hlinka to when he finally started putting things together), the question I guess became ''which is the real Filip Forsberg?''

I didn't bite on it, though. I wasn't making lists back then but it was Galchenyuk or Forsberg for me. I chose...poorly.

 

[Mrb1p]

That was sort of the issue with Forsberg. Eventually he put things together at the U18s and in the second half of the season. But with such a huge blank (seriously, he didn't score a goal anywhere, not even junior since coming back from the Hlinka to when he finally started putting things together), the question I guess became ''which is the real Filip Forsberg?''

I didn't bite on it, though. I wasn't making lists back then but it was Galchenyuk or Forsberg for me. I chose...poorly.

He was good everywhere he went, he was held pointless for like 15 games I think or he had like a few points. It was pretty obvious he didn't just capitalize on his ice-time. He dominated the j20, j18, u18 (Twice before being drafted.) All that as a August Bday.

I still cannot believe he fell straight to 11.

Teravainen fell way too low too.

 

[NotProkofievian]

He was good everywhere he went, he was held pointless for like 15 games I think or he had like a few points. It was pretty obvious he didn't just capitalize on his ice-time. He dominated the j20, j18, u18 (Twice before being drafted.) All that as a August Bday.

I still cannot believe he fell straight to 11.

Teravainen fell way too low too.

Teravainen was a riser. He started in the 2nd round facing concerns about his smålness.

And yeah I couldn't believe that Forsberg fell as far as he did. So far as I was concerned, he should have been picked right after us.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

That was sort of the issue with Forsberg. Eventually he put things together at the U18s and in the second half of the season. But with such a huge blank (seriously, he didn't score a goal anywhere, not even junior since coming back from the Hlinka to when he finally started putting things together), the question I guess became ''which is the real Filip Forsberg?''

I didn't bite on it, though. I wasn't making lists back then but it was Galchenyuk or Forsberg for me. I chose...poorly.

We all did. I remember seeing FF at the WJCs that year and seeing him flying with the puck and I was definitely loosening the neck tie and gulping.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I still maintain Galchenyuk would be a better player today if he didn't have Therrien as his coach.

There may be some IQ issues that we missed because well, he was injured almost his entire draft year..

But Therrien is such a black hole for player development when it relates to skill. It's a huge what if.

 

[Mrb1p]

Teravainen was a riser. He started in the 2nd round facing concerns about his smålness.

And yeah I couldn't believe that Forsberg fell as far as he did. So far as I was concerned, he should have been picked right after us.

On draft day? Absolutely not, there was talk about Timmins maybe going for him at #3.

I still maintain Galchenyuk would be a better player today if he didn't have Therrien as his coach.

There may be some IQ issues that we missed because well, he was injured almost his entire draft year..

But Therrien is such a black hole for player development when it relates to skill. It's a huge what if.

Obviously. A lot of the IQ problems manifested later in his career, he was seen as a medium high IQ player up until his second year. IQ can be developed too, but he had to stay at the junior level because nobody helped him move forward.

 

[WeThreeKings]

We could have gotten Teravainen if we just absorbed the Bickell contract. But of course.. Bergevin.

 

[NotProkofievian]

On draft day? Absolutely not, there was talk about Timmins maybe going for him at #3.

No as in, throughout the year. There was talk of Timmins going for Teräväinen, though.