Travis Sanheim Discussion Thread Part Two

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Oh, yeah fans were clamoring in mass for Hyka, Holmstrom, etc.

DFF loves playing this game. It's been his gimmick for a long time. He bashed me once hard a few years ago for saying Philippe Myers looked like the real deal when I saw him in the QMJHL. Whatever. Back on ignore.

Yet another person proving my point. I dared to shock the conscious and say something along the lines of "I'm not going to get excited about a guy ten games into his first season post-draft because he scored a lot of points in that time period after never scoring anywhere near that in any prior seasons" and that turned into me hating Myers or something.

Or what about Radel Fazleev, the prospect I said wasn't doing anything special because he was an overage player and was flamed because I hate our prospects and he was destined for the NHL. How is he doing now? Or how about Sam Morin, what is he up to because I remember asking like three years ago when we should get worried about him and I was again cast as a contrarian that hates our prospects (at least one person told me they wouldn't trade him straight up for Drouin!). We've all made mistakes, don't get me wrong. Everyone loves to point out that I said I would trade Ghost for Mantha, a trade I obviously wouldn't do now. But I don't really think it is debatable that people on here by and large overvalue and are over sensitive about our prospects. I mean come on...just look at the response to this line of thinking.

 

[Striiker]

lol as if anyone is reading that

 

[deadhead]

The team has been carried by the goalies, the metrics shout that, not just Corsi (though it's been terrible) but scoring chances for and against - no good team gives up more scoring chances than it generates for obvious reasons - and giving up too many high danger scoring chances makes a mockery of "Gordon's system keeps everything outside, so Corsi isn't relevant" argument.

The talent is improving, but they still get consistently dominated by good teams in terms of game control and scoring chances. They're scoring more, but some of this is probably due to unsustainable shooting %, especially on the PP (which has recently cooled off, regression to the mean).

Any impartial observer would come to these conclusions:
1) the young players are not ready to carry the team, Provorov/Sanhim are not 1st pair quality, TK is unsound defensively, etc.
2) the team lacks sufficient depth in the bottom six (i.e. Laughton is not a 3C, Varone, Knight, Bailey are replacement level at best) and on defense
3) the team lacks a veteran leader on defense who can steady the young defensemen

Experience will address (1).
Players coming up through the system and maybe a FA will address (2) the next two years.
Fletcher will probably add a veteran defenseman to address (3). My bet would be someone like Gudas, but more skilled and higher hockey IQ.

A new coach will not resolve these issues, but can get the team to play a more disciplined brand of hockey than under Gordon.

 

[Starat327]

lol as if anyone is reading that

Can't argue if ya dont give em a chance to speak. #Lawyer101

 

[baudib1]

I never seen a single person say they thought Fazleev would amount to anything.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Forgot about Ben Holmstrom. Looks like he's in his fourth season with Bridgeport. A stable home and job security in the minors for four years, got to be captain, played with his brother for a bit. Good for him.

Only thing I remember about him in the NHL is getting pounded by Chris Neil in one of his first games though, lol.

Gustafsson did have a following here in my earliest days lurking, but I don't really remember seeing anyone mention him much, if at all, since I joined (at which point he had been off the team for three or so years already).

 

[Striiker]

People liked Gus because he was obviously better than the other trash we had, like Grossmann and MacDonald.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I never seen a single person say they thought Fazleev would amount to anything.

Probably before your time on these boards. I don't recall the exact circumstances of the argument but someone was talking him up because he was putting up good numbers and me talking about how big numbers after your draft year doesn't guarantee success or something like that and because I dared to temper expectations it turned into a bunch of people talking about how I am a contrarian or something like that. I would wager it took place in the Fazleev thread or the draft thread for his year or maybe the prospect rankings the year after his draft if you really wanted to go back and look.

 

[Tripod]

Hell, look at the last few games and the "hives" comments toward Couts. Multiple times he was criticized for failed clears leading to scoring chances against. But we also all know the good outweighs the bad by a far margin. In some of the kids, the margin is not near as big, as expected.

As for Sanheim, very few people have said he SHOULD be on the top pairing. Most have said they would prefer him on the 2nd pairing with Gudas and to give Ghost another run on the top pairing since they played well last year and is better on the right side.

And what the "hive" DID want, is for Trav to get more icetime than f***ing Hagg and Folin per game which he was not getting under Hakstol. It's that BS of icetime that gets people fired up.

 

[Stizzle]

I never seen a single person say they thought Fazleev would amount to anything.

He's trying to say that people were hyping up Fazleev? Wow. DFF is lying.

I watched a ton of Calgary Hitmen games in Fazleev's tenure. I would remember. People thought maybe, at best, he could be a 4th line center. Especially after a nice WJC. There certainly was never a big buzz surrounding him. Unfortunately, Fazleev's skating never improved, and he never adjusted to the AHL.

I definitely thought he could be a really good AHL player, but that never materialized. He was asked by Gordon to be a 4th line dump & chase guy, which he was not pleased with. I actually spoke to him about it at Trial on the Isle 2017.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I never seen a single person say they thought Fazleev would amount to anything.

Confirmed with Link: - May 28, 2015: Flyers sign Radel Fazleev to entry level contract

It’s DFF arguing for the sake of arguing just like he is currently doing now.

 

[David St Hubbins]

I never seen a single person say they thought Fazleev would amount to anything.

I'll fess up: I thought he might have a 3rd line wing top end, or at least be a 4th line energy guy. A poor man's Trent Klatt.

I will now sit in the box and feel shame.

 

[Stizzle]

I'll fess up: I thought he might have a 3rd line wing top end, or at least be a 4th line energy guy. A poor man's Trent Klatt.

I will now sit in the box and feel shame.

Believe it or not, actual teams spending big money, devoting countless hours to evaluation, and with much more info, miss on players all the time.

Your 2 minutes is up. Get free. Take solace in knowing you are not a lying, attention whore. Unlike, some people.

 

[Curufinwe]

Oh, yeah fans were clamoring in mass for Hyka, Holmstrom, etc.

DFF loves playing this game. It's been his gimmick for a long time. He bashed me once hard a few years ago for saying Philippe Myers looked like the real deal when I saw him in the QMJHL. Whatever. Back on ignore.

Whatever happened to that Myers kid that the orange Kool-aid guzzling cheerleaders on here foolishly got excited about? Is he playing in Russia or something?

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Just for reference, here is a link to the Fazleev thread where I made the initial, shocking comment in response to someone calling Fazleev a "steal" and "excellent" pick.

Confirmed with Link: - May 28, 2015: Flyers sign Radel Fazleev to entry level contract

I like the pick and the signing, but the point totals are what you would expect from a 19 year old two years after his draft year. There are plenty of guys that put up prolific numbers that don't even get drafted, let alone make the NHL. Not saying he won't make it or anything like that, but look at the WHL leaders from last year. Numbers 2-5 are all guys that were either undrafted or drafted 5th or later, but were the same age as Fazleev. Even this year the leading scorer is Tyson Baillie, the same age as Fazleev but undrafted or Dryden Hunt in 3rd is undrafted and the same age as Fazleev. I don't have time to go through all of it, but it appears that most of the higher scoring players in juniors are either studs about to be drafted, or guys in their second year after being drafted.

You can the see the response of people being aghast that I would point out such outlandish and obvioulsy false or misleading information. And yes, people "only" said he was be a 3rd or 4th liner...but the point is that I dared to even suggest that we should just wait and see when he plays in the AHL to make that kind of projection and call it a "steal" or "excellent" pick and was laughed out of the entire internet.

I suppose the standard here is that if you say one of our prospects is an excellent pick or a steal and suggest they are heading for the NHL (which I even agreed with!), it is unassailable and for someone to suggest that what he is doing/has done isn't as impressive as you are saying is just outlandish, contrarian, and stoking the fires! Just part of my schtick!

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Whatever happened to that Myers kid that the orange Kool-aid guzzling cheerleaders on here foolishly got excited about? Is he playing in Russia or something?

See again this is literally proving my point! Go back to what my original post was about Myers and tell me what is so absurd about me saying that a ten game hot streak isn't going to get me excited about an undrafted player who has never put up anywhere near those kinds of numbers. That turned into me saying Myers sucks. I wonder if the Pens signed someone last summer and he got off to a hot start if you guys would be juiced up and worried about the Pens getting a big time defender destined for the NHL or if maybe you would say, "Who cares the kid never put up numbers like that before and it is only ten games or so." You'd probably start panicking because of the loaded Pittsburgh prospect pool.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

For reference, here is my original two Myers post:

Here's a link so you can again see my absolutely incredible unfounded and ridiculous position of me hating Philippe Myers from day one.

Prospect Info: - Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Juniors, Int'l, etc. (Autumn edition)

 

[deadhead]

There's good reason to be cautious with prospects, I don't care how good Zamula looks, he's probably not playing NHL hockey at 6'3 165 (what he was listed as on EP) - so we really won't know if he's for real until he hits 200+ lbs - then we'll see how well he skates.

I can't get excited about Morin until I see him on the ice and see if he's 100% and whether he's developed or flatlined.

On the other hand, it's obvious Myers is for real, Frost has done everything you could possibly ask a prospect to do in juniors, Farabee has had the kind of post-draft year you expect from elite prospects (top WJC showing followed by 3rd in NCAA scoring for under 20 players).

And people aren't honest about prospects they like (I fell into that hole with Patrick, developing slower than I hoped), Sanheim is still an adventure in his D-zone and struggles when pressured. I still think both will become elite or close to elite players, but sometimes it takes longer than you'd like.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I watched a ton of Calgary Hitmen games in Fazleev's tenure. I would remember. People thought maybe, at best, he could be a 4th line center. Especially after a nice WJC. There certainly was never a big buzz surrounding him. Unfortunately, Fazleev's skating never improved, and he never adjusted to the AHL.

I still can't believe I watched (and enjoyed) ~80 hours in broadcast time of a hockey team where Radel Fazleev was the best Forward. That 15-16 team was so bland.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

@DrinkFightFlyers You’re exactly right. Many here are extremely sensitive to anything but glowing praise for their favorite players & pretty much any young player who supposedly has skill.

It’s like a vestige of childhood sports hero worship that some can’t seem to outgrow.

 

[Striiker]

He's trying to say that people were hyping up Fazleev? Wow. DFF is lying.

I watched a ton of Calgary Hitmen games in Fazleev's tenure. I would remember. People thought maybe, at best, he could be a 4th line center. Especially after a nice WJC. There certainly was never a big buzz surrounding him. Unfortunately, Fazleev's skating never improved, and he never adjusted to the AHL.

I definitely thought he could be a really good AHL player, but that never materialized. He was asked by Gordon to be a 4th line dump & chase guy, which he was not pleased with. I actually spoke to him about it at Trial on the Isle 2017.

Literally one post said Fazleev was an "excellent" pick, so he freaked out.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Literally one post said Fazleev was an "excellent" pick, so he freaked out.

Did I freak out? Take a look at the posts and see if I was freaking out or people freaked out because I dared to point out his point totals weren't really anything special?

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Honestly, uou think if I posted something about a 6th round pick of another team having a good season two years after being drafting and saying the Pens or Habs had a steal or an excellent pick everyone on here would agree, or do you think the reaction would be more in line with what I was saying about Fazleev? Or what if the Pens signed someone undrafted and he started out his first ten or fifteen games of the next year putting up good numbers? Would we all be in awe of this exciting new prospect that is lurking in the Pens system? Give me a break!

 

[Prongo]

DFF my biggest issue with your judgement of players is it’s soley on what other people write or just stats. At least the people here watch these players and give specifics why they are excited or believe the player can become something.

You just play devils advocate.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

DFF my biggest issue with your judgement of players is it’s soley on what other people write or just stats. At least the people here watch these players and give specifics why they are excited or believe the player can become something.

You just play devils advocate.

Literally the posts that I am referring to are based solely on stats. It's ok to have positive thoughts based solely on stats but it is not ok to point out that those stats a) are not necessarily indicative of anything special or b) that I am not going to get excited about those stats? I'm sorry but if you want to tell me that you saw Phillipe Myers (or any player that went) play ten games after being signed, even if you were watching nothing but ISO footage of him, and you got excited about his future NHL abilities you are still overreacting. And I'm sure those talking about Radel Fazleev are big Calgary Hitmen fans and studtied the play of Fazleev.

Whenever I mention an opinion on a prospect or draft choice I almost always preface it with saying I have not seen them live and am basing it on write-ups/highlights/stats. And rarely argue about the player's attributes outside of those parameters, but everyone else who talks on here seemingly has time to watch not only every Flyers game, but also every other NHL game, CHL game, KHL game, NCAA, and all other Euro Leagues (and some additional minor Canadian Jr. league and US High School). The Myers and Fazleev threads are all linked above and are all illustrative of other examples like when Homer was a terrible GM for not signing Sunshine because he was going to be an NHL goalie and Homer was too stupid to notice it (or maybe he hated young goalies, I don't remember the exact reasons).