Travis Sanheim Discussion Thread Part Two

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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DleS6EDUcAArxUT.jpg
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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It's like when some people overreacted when they traded Marody.

Now he's having a nice AHL season at 22 years old, but are the Flyers really going to regret trading a 23 year old rookie who might be a decent 3rd line RW when they have Hartman who'll be 25 next year, Laczynski, NAK, Kase and Allison. If Giroux stays at RW, TK is our 3RW so there's not a lot of room.

There are certain prospects I'd hate to sell low, Hogberg who was on the 1st pair of the best team in the SHL at age 20 (and who Appleyard loves), Cates (turned 19 in Feb) who had a solid WJC followed by a good second half of his freshman year, and Ersson, who was spectacular in Allsvenskan at 19. It's not that I'm in "love," but that I fear their trade value is well below their potential upside. Whereas I didn't get the impression that Marody for example was top 6 material.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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@DrinkFightFlyers You’re exactly right. Many here are extremely sensitive to anything but glowing praise for their favorite players & pretty much any young player who supposedly has skill.

The extreme sensitivity actually comes from the concern trolls when their over the top criticism of prospects and players is refuted. We saw it with Myers and DFF, Konency & Sanheim and deadhead, and of course with Couturier and Jtown.

Pascal Laberge and Jay O'Brien have plenty of skill, but is anyone here being "extremely sensitive" about criticism towards them? No, of course not, because their on ice performances since being drafted have been a real let down.

When deadhead claimed TK was 2-3 years away from being a top 6 forward, were people being "extremely sensitive" about him because he was their favorite player? No, of course not, they could just tell that he would flourish if given a chance in the top 6.
 

Ruck Over

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No, of course not, they could just tell that he would flourish if given a chance in the top 6.

I agree with you. Given the nature of the team today, versus when most the bluster about TK was taking place during last season, it could be argued TK got to the top 6, and has currently left the top 6. That has more to do with other players upping their game and attempting to create balanced lines. While TK probably is not receiving the amount of ice time he deserves, he is NOT playing with Jori, Weise, or other apt awful players, and he is STILL PRODUCING in those moments he's given upgraded talent currently.

What detractors of the TK protectors are often missing are context and nuance. The talk about TK being 2-3 years away was a laughable joke. Only outdoing the opposite positive mentions of TK being a Mitch Marner lite. (TK is closer to being Marner, than he is a 2-3 years away plug.)
 
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Ghosts Beer

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The extreme sensitivity actually comes from the concern trolls when their over the top criticism of prospects and players is refuted. We saw it with Myers and DFF, Konency & Sanheim and deadhead, and of course with Couturier and Jtown.

Pascal Laberge and Jay O'Brien have plenty of skill, but is anyone here being "extremely sensitive" about criticism towards them? No, of course not, because their on ice performances since being drafted have been a real let down.

When deadhead claimed TK was 2-3 years away from being a top 6 forward, were people being "extremely sensitive" about him because he was their favorite player? No, of course not, they could just tell that he would flourish if given a chance in the top 6.
What I’m referring to are things like posters getting defensive about a couple posters pointing out that Nolan Patrick looked slow in his rookie preseason (he did) & saying Mikhail Vorobyev didn’t deserve 3rd line minutes.
 

deadhead

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The extreme sensitivity actually comes from the concern trolls when their over the top criticism of prospects and players is refuted. We saw it with Myers and DFF, Konency & Sanheim and deadhead, and of course with Couturier and Jtown.

Pascal Laberge and Jay O'Brien have plenty of skill, but is anyone here being "extremely sensitive" about criticism towards them? No, of course not, because their on ice performances since being drafted have been a real let down.

When deadhead claimed TK was 2-3 years away from being a top 6 forward, were people being "extremely sensitive" about him because he was their favorite player? No, of course not, they could just tell that he would flourish if given a chance in the top 6.

TK still can't play defense at a NHL acceptable level, and is our most erratic player who is still subject to serious mind farts, now if we're Edmonton, we don't care, but I think some people here want to win a Cup.

TK is a streaky scorer which is fine, but he has to become a consistent player who can contribute in other ways when he's on a cold streak.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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A good example of why you should never hitch your cart to DFF's talent evaluation wagon.

Gudas is a bottom pair defenseman. The pick is likely in the bottom five of the first round (and bottom five of the third round). The team got worse in the present, and at best it is a lateral move three years or so down the road when whomever we pick is NHL-ready. I would have liked maybe a prospect that was close to being NHL-ready or a player better than Gudas or perhaps another pick, something to that effect. Not sure exactly what I would have been happy about (i.e., which prospect, which NHLer, or which pick), but I think they could have gotten more.

One day later:

Perhaps I am one of the few people on here who engages in critical thinking, not an immediate knee jerk overreaction to every move that is made, no matter how big or small.

Confirmed with Link: - Coburn Traded to Tampa Bay for Radko Gudas & 2 Picks (1st & 3rd)

Since the trade:

Gudas - 281 GP, 70 P, +13, 18:33 ATOI, SAT Rel% +3.77

Coburn - 297 GP, 56 GP, +19, 16:26 ATOI, SAT Rel% -0.69

Anyone who wants to claim that Coburn has been the better defenseman over the past four years, go right ahead.

Even better, take a crack at defending the claim that Radko Gudas is a "dime a dozen, bottom pair/seventh defenseman". :laugh:

colonlol.gif
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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Well, Gudas is a bottom pair defenseman, passable on the second pair if you give him a mobile partner.
I like him, but let's face it, against quick forwards Gudas is well, "interesting." Usually gets the job done, but sometimes it's like watching sausage being made.
 

Tripod

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Konecny has 22 points in his last 25 games. Who cares about labels. Next year hopefully Frost makes the team, we sign a big UFA and we have a fantastic top 9 that all can score. That also pushes Hartman and Laughton to the 4th line which makes for 2/3rds of a great 4th line.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

THE TORTURE NEVER STOPS
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A good example of why you should never hitch your cart to DFF's talent evaluation wagon.



One day later:



Confirmed with Link: - Coburn Traded to Tampa Bay for Radko Gudas & 2 Picks (1st & 3rd)

Since the trade:

Gudas - 281 GP, 70 P, +13, 18:33 ATOI, SAT Rel% +3.77

Coburn - 297 GP, 56 GP, +19, 16:26 ATOI, SAT Rel% -0.69

Anyone who wants to claim that Coburn has been the better defenseman over the past four years, go right ahead.

Even better, take a crack at defending the claim that Radko Gudas is a "dime a dozen, bottom pair/seventh defenseman". :laugh:

colonlol.gif

Lol. You got me! I hate our prospects and I wasn't happy about a trade that was made three years ago! No one should listen to anything I say and also no one has ever been wrong on here but me!

OMG I JUST LOOKED AND FOUND A POST WHERE I SAID WE SHOULD DRAFT DEBRINCAT AND YOU SAID NO AND NOW HE HAS 40 GOALS! LOL YOU ARE SO STUPID NO ONE LISTEN TO THIS GUY HE SAID DEBRINCAT MIGHT BUST!!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL! THEN LATER YOU SAID WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN LOL YOU CAN'T EVEN KEEP YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!


Screen Shot 2019-03-19 at 12.07.10 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-03-19 at 12.07.02 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-03-19 at 12.06.41 PM.png
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
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Pennsylvania
Konecny has 22 points in his last 25 games. Who cares about labels. Next year hopefully Frost makes the team, we sign a big UFA and we have a fantastic top 9 that all can score. That also pushes Hartman and Laughton to the 4th line which makes for 2/3rds of a great 4th line.
What TK's managed to do this year is impressive, even while being jerked around the lineup and regularly playing way less than he should.

Even just look at his average icetime compared to the players around him in scoring...

369cfc8eac352e57705cbf5faa76658a.png


He's a legit top line player, who isn't being used properly, but still manages to produce.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
A good example of why you should never hitch your cart to DFF's talent evaluation wagon.



One day later:



Confirmed with Link: - Coburn Traded to Tampa Bay for Radko Gudas & 2 Picks (1st & 3rd)

Since the trade:

Gudas - 281 GP, 70 P, +13, 18:33 ATOI, SAT Rel% +3.77

Coburn - 297 GP, 56 GP, +19, 16:26 ATOI, SAT Rel% -0.69

Anyone who wants to claim that Coburn has been the better defenseman over the past four years, go right ahead.

Even better, take a crack at defending the claim that Radko Gudas is a "dime a dozen, bottom pair/seventh defenseman". :laugh:

colonlol.gif
Speaking of TK, if we didn't get that pick that was "likely in the bottom five of the first round" we wouldn't have been able to trade up to get him.

Guess it wasn't such an underwhelming trade after all. We got a superior defensemen and a 1st round pick used to get a top line winger.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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TK last 29 games: Corsi 41.29%, GF/GA 18/19, SCF/CA 130/205, HDCF/CA 47/80
His underlying metrics have been terrible, which suggests his current success isn't really much of a benefit (he helps both teams score).
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Sep 28, 2014
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What TK's managed to do this year is impressive, even while being jerked around the lineup and regularly playing way less than he should.

Even just look at his average icetime compared to the players around him in scoring...

369cfc8eac352e57705cbf5faa76658a.png


He's a legit top line player, who isn't being used properly, but still manages to produce.

He ranks 21st in P/60 for all RWs - That's really good.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...er=gamesPlayed,gte,25&sort=pointsPer60Minutes

Guessing he ranks even higher in ES P/60 but I can't find that anywhere.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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Unfortunately, the team that wins on a regular basis isn't the won that scores the most goals, but more goals than the opposition.
TK is not a top forward until he develops a more complete game.
That's where Voracek has taken a step forward since he's been paired with Couts.

I don't expect most scoring forwards to be Selke candidates (it would be nice but there are only a few Couts, Kopitars, Stones around the league).
I do expect them to be decent, to not make repeated gaffes, to backcheck consistently, to be in position on defense, etc.
Right now TK and JVR are our weak links in the top 6 - both need to raise their defensive game to "acceptable."
 

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