Travis Sanheim Discussion Thread Part Two

[Curufinwe]

If Burke watched a second of Sanheim's AHL career, I'd be surprised.

 

[Striiker]

Hockey media is full of f***ing idiots trying to one-up each others stupidity.

 

[Prongo]

Let’s not use one game ever determining if a player is ready for the spot light either. Every player has a bad game. Every top dman has a game (many) they want to forget about.

Sanheim since the college joke of a coach was fired and the new assistant was brought in has been excellent. Every aspect of his game has improved dramatically. But he had a bad game so let’s hold off on the praise.

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim has not been excellent since he was promoted to the 1st pair, he's scored at a high rate, but struggles in his D-zone.
Ideally, he'd be on the 2nd pair and PP2 for a couple years while he took the next step.
He's also out of position at the right side, usually you let a player establish themselves before putting them in a less comfortable position.

If the young players were playing as well as some people suggest they are, the Flyers wouldn't need their goalies to stand on their heads to win games, they'd be a dominant team.

Which shouldn't be a surprise, for every McDavid who is a star at 19, there's a player who doesn't hit their stride until 22-25, Couts, Wheeler, Scheifele, etc.

Sanheim, Provorov are 22, Myers 21, they're just reaching the age where they should be taking the next step up.
Patrick is 20, TK 21, Lindblom 22, they're still learning on the job.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Sanheim has not been excellent since he was promoted to the 1st pair, he's scored at a high rate, but struggles in his D-zone.
Ideally, he'd be on the 2nd pair and PP2 for a couple years while he took the next step.
He's also out of position at the right side, usually you let a player establish themselves before putting them in a less comfortable position.

If the young players were playing as well as some people suggest they are, the Flyers wouldn't need their goalies to stand on their heads to win games, they'd be a dominant team.

Which shouldn't be a surprise, for every McDavid who is a star at 19, there's a player who doesn't hit their stride until 22-25, Couts, Wheeler, Scheifele, etc.

Sanheim, Provorov are 22, Myers 21, they're just reaching the age where they should be taking the next step up.
Patrick is 20, TK 21, Lindblom 22, they're still learning on the job.

That's a good point. People always talk highly of our young players and scoff or get offended at any criticism and seemingly all blame points to AMac and Hagg. These guys are all very promising and playing well, but they are not perfect and the criticism that some guys are facing is warranted, no matter how much some folks want to put their head in the sand or blame everything but the player.

 

[Jtown]

Antoski was a fun player. Clarke was obsessed with big guys and getting guys from the 1990 draft so he had to get him.

drafted right before tkachuk and brodeur.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That's a good point. People always talk highly of our young players and scoff or get offended at any criticism and seemingly all blame points to AMac and Hagg. These guys are all very promising and playing well, but they are not perfect and the criticism that some guys are facing is warranted, no matter how much some folks want to put their head in the sand or blame everything but the player.

Completely accurate.

 

[Striiker]

That's a good point. People always talk highly of our young players and scoff or get offended at any criticism and seemingly all blame points to AMac and Hagg. These guys are all very promising and playing well, but they are not perfect and the criticism that some guys are facing is warranted, no matter how much some folks want to put their head in the sand or blame everything but the player.

The young guys get plenty of criticism from everybody when they mess up. The only time people get annoyed is when it goes too far, as your contrarian brotheren love to do.

Try paying closer attention.

 

[Starat327]

The young guys get plenty of criticism from everybody when they mess up. The only time people get annoyed is when it goes too far, as your contrarian brotheren love to do.

Try paying closer attention.

This.

 

[Tripod]

My issue is with the people who say "we know ____ sucks or is just a placeholder so why bother complaining about him"

Every upgrade helps. To think they don't is dumb. Even if it's small, it all helps. But some people only believe that it's only big upgrades that matter.

"a chain is only as strong as its weakest link"

As for Travis, he 100% would be better served on the left side on the 2nd pairing. It would allow him to play less defense and to push the offense more. But all these kids are going to make mistakes or have bad games. Just like Hart will/has. The great thing is, they are not finished products and already have shown how great they can be. Adding a GOOD vet Dman would do way more than some think.

 

[Striiker]

This.

*Sanheim makes a mistake*
Normal posters in GDT: "Wow Sanheim what the hell was that?!" "Terrible play by Sanheim!" "Sanheim can't do that there!"
Contrarians: "Sanheim isn't ready for the top 4 and has been horrible all year!"
Normal posters: "What? That's not true"
Contrarians: "SANHEIM IS ALLOWED TO BE CRITICIZED. HE DOES ACTUALLY MAKE MISTAKES. HE'S NOT PERFECT. STOP DEFENDING YOUR FAVORITES AND ONLY BLAMING THE BAD PLAYERS"

Repeat infinite times, with minor variations, for every non-trash young player or fan favorite.

They ignore reality, choose to wrongly believe the kids get zero criticism, and then think they need to overcompensate to make up for the imaginary lack of criticism by going way overboard. After all, they are objective and impartial and the only way to prove that is to hate who the majority loves and love who the majority hates.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The young guys get plenty of criticism from everybody when they mess up. The only time people get annoyed is when it goes too far, as your contrarian brotheren love to do.

Try paying closer attention.

Haha. Yup. No one on here ever is overprotective of our prospects or overvalues them. My bad. Sorry. All of our young defensemen are doing exactly as well as is posted on here.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Burke is a ****ing moron and has no business talking about the Flyers.

You could have stopped after "talking."

 

[deadhead]

The young guys get plenty of criticism from everybody when they mess up. The only time people get annoyed is when it goes too far, as your contrarian brotheren love to do.

Try paying closer attention.

The young guys have been grossly inflated in terms of their quality of play.
Talent isn't the same as production.
Right now their promise exceeds their performance. Which is neither unexpected or a reason for concern, given their age.

As I pointed out, if they were already as good as advertised, we'd be one of the best teams in the league.
Instead, the goalies have carried this team throughout the winning stretch while the team has been consistently outplayed.

 

[Striiker]

Haha. Yup. No one on here ever is overprotective of our prospects or overvalues them. My bad. Sorry. All of our young defensemen are doing exactly as well as is posted on here.

Thank god we have you completely objective and flawless evaluators here to police the player criticism.

You guys have proven to know much better than the average poster on here.

Thank you for your service!

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Thank god we have you completely objective and flawless evaluators here to police the player criticism.

You guys have proven to know much better than the average poster on here.

Thank you for your service!

Hey look I know you guys are still upset about the all-time NHL greats Erik Gustafsson, Tomas Hyka, Ben Holstrom, Joacim Eriksson, and other prospects that the team either failed to recognize their greatness or intentionally ruined their careers (and it looks like we might be able to add Sam Morin, whom is the present target of a conspiracy to ruin his career), but when people post criticisms about our young players now they either attacked for their position or it is someone who will levy a slight criticism...and then say something "BUT HE IS PLAYING ON THE WRONG SIDE/NOT ENOUGH MINUTES/BAD SITUATIONS/WHATEVER BECAUSE OUR COACHES ARE DUMB" or "MAYBE IF AMAC OR HAGG WASN'T OUT THERE/GETTING THE EASY MINUTES/WHATEVER."

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

In other words, any criticism directed a Sanheim or Myers is actually a criticism of the coaching or some other factor outside of the control of the player.

 

[Oskar Man]

Young guys are grossly overrated. Goalies carrying us.

No mention of the inept coaching.

 

[Striiker]

Hey look I know you guys are still upset about the all-time NHL greats Erik Gustafsson, Tomas Hyka, Ben Holstrom, Joacim Eriksson, and other prospects that the team either failed to recognize their greatness or intentionally ruined their careers (and it looks like we might be able to add Sam Morin, whom is the present target of a conspiracy to ruin his career), but when people post criticisms about our young players now they either attacked for their position or it is someone who will levy a slight criticism...and then say something "BUT HE IS PLAYING ON THE WRONG SIDE/NOT ENOUGH MINUTES/BAD SITUATIONS/WHATEVER BECAUSE OUR COACHES ARE DUMB" or "MAYBE IF AMAC OR HAGG WASN'T OUT THERE/GETTING THE EASY MINUTES/WHATEVER."

YES! Those players are amazing comparisons for guys like Sanheim, Ghost, TK, and the other "favorites" who are already in the NHL and performing at a high level!

There's those flawless and objective evaluations again! Perfectly comparable situations and arguments!

And you're also right on the caps lock part, none of that context matters at all in evaluating players or coaches. How dare we mere fans question positions of authority? How dare we judge players with context in mind?

You struck gold again, DFF!

 

[Stizzle]

Oh, yeah fans were clamoring in mass for Hyka, Holmstrom, etc.

DFF loves playing this game. It's been his gimmick for a long time. He bashed me once hard a few years ago for saying Philippe Myers looked like the real deal when I saw him in the QMJHL. Whatever. Back on ignore.

 

[Starat327]

YES! Those players are amazing comparisons for guys like Sanheim, Ghost, TK, and the other "favorites" who are already in the NHL and performing at a high level!

There's those flawless and objective evaluations again! Perfectly comparable situations and arguments!

And you're also right on the caps lock part, none of that context matters at all in evaluating players or coaches. How dare we mere fans question positions of authority? How dare we judge players with context in mind?

You struck gold again, DFF!

Lets trade those players that arent really that good for MUCH BETTER players, too. Because maybe no other GM sees what we see - how bad the player really is!

 

[Striiker]

Oh, yeah fans were clamoring in mass for Hyka, Holmstrom, etc.

DFF loves playing this game. It's been his gimmick for a long time. He bashed me once hard a few years ago for saying Philippe Myers looked like the real deal when I saw him in the QMJHL. Whatever. Back on ignore.

Yep, I typically don't bother with him because he doesn't even try to hide the game he's playing, but I figured I'd just make a point this time.

 

[DancingPanther]

That's a good point. People always talk highly of our young players and scoff or get offended at any criticism and seemingly all blame points to AMac and Hagg. These guys are all very promising and playing well, but they are not perfect and the criticism that some guys are facing is warranted, no matter how much some folks want to put their head in the sand or blame everything but the player.

Not really.

If a bad player like Hagg or AMac makes a boneheaded play, I'll point it out and say he sucks. Because both of them do.

If a good player like literally any other one of our Dmen makes a boneheaded play, I'll still point it out but will easily forgive, because even Crosby will shovel the puck softly through the D zone, resulting in a turnover.

The posters here who whine about "some people" blaming everything on 2 players are the same people blaming everything on anyone BUT those 2 players. How is that different?

For what it's worth, the only thing I've really scoffed at was Sanheim being called a pu$sy

 

[Starat327]

Not really.

If a bad player like Hagg or AMac makes a boneheaded play, I'll point it out and say he sucks. Because both of them do.

If a good player like literally any other one of our Dmen makes a boneheaded play, I'll still point it out but will easily forgive, because even Crosby will shovel the puck softly through the D zone, resulting in a turnover.

The posters here who whine about "some people" blaming everything on 2 players are the same people blaming everything on anyone BUT those 2 players. How is that different?

For what it's worth, the only thing I've really scoffed at was Sanheim being called a pu$sy

I specifically remember several people commenting on a great PK shift by Hagg in the Jets game where they got pinned in the zone on a 5 on 3, simply because i was at that game and remember watching it. Its not that these players dont get praised for doing something right, either. Its just that its all to often that they dont do anything worth praising.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

YES! Those players are amazing comparisons for guys like Sanheim, Ghost, TK, and the other "favorites" who are already in the NHL and performing at a high level!

There's those flawless and objective evaluations again! Perfectly comparable situations and arguments!

And you're also right on the caps lock part, none of that context matters at all in evaluating players or coaches. How dare we mere fans question positions of authority? How dare we judge players with context in mind?

You struck gold again, DFF!

It is clear that you are missing the point and only emphasizing the accuracy of my initial statement. Criticism of a player does not equate to saying the player sucks or will never amount to anything oranything of that nature. And while it is quite clear the Gus and Ericsson etc. of the world are not on the same level as the Sanheims and Myers of the world, the nature of the defense of these players was. Gus was a top 4 defenseman that the organization just refused to recognize. Homer was insane for not re-signing Sunshine because he was destined to be an NHL goalie and he was just giving up assets. And so forth and so on. If there is a player that is in the HFBoards expert spotlight and he is criticized, there is always an excuse or reason or someone else to blame. I can say "I think Sanheim's ability to INSERT CRITICISM HERE needs work" and not mean that I think he is a bust, but if I wait a couple weeks and bring something up there will be a flurry of people on the offensive to let me know it is Hakstol or Gordon or Homer or AMac or someone else's fault.