Trades and Free Agent Talk -- The calm before the storm?

[dubplatepressure]

Should they become buyers, what assests can we assume are in play at this deadline?

Johnsson
Ceci
Bracco
any and all draft picks

Wait 2-3 weeks, then decide.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Should they become buyers, what assests can we assume are in play at this deadline?

Johnsson
Ceci
Bracco
any and all draft picks

I doubt all of them are available. It would have to be a really good deal for any kind of noticeable pick to be included I would say.

Johnsson/Kerfoot, Ceci (maybe Barrie but unlikely), Hutch, and most prospects/Marlies (Bracco being the best of the available guys).

Timashov, Gauthier or Moore could be available in the right scenario too, but they are more available in offseason trades. We need them for our 3rd and 4th lines right now.

 

[BlueForever75]

So we shouldn't use him to get a backup because he won't play more than 15-20 games, yet it is a good idea to give him up for a rental who won't play much more than that, assuming we even make a lengthy run in the playoffs?

A proper backup can play more than 15-20 games too BTW.

A backup plays on Toronto 15-20 games a season. For the stretch run I don't see any backup coming in that is going to play 15-20 games of the remaining 40. A defenseman or forward though can play 30+ games for you down the stretch and in the right deal the Leafs are acquiring someone with term that can play another season or more in every game barring injury. Trading Bracco for a backup goaltender is a waste sorry.

Ride it out with Hutch this season. Make the right adjustments with the lineup in the off season and properly upgrade the backup goalie situation for nothing other then money in FA.

 

[Big Muddy]

According to Lebrun. We are on Brodie’s NTC. List.


How could the trade have went through? Kinda odd how it’s a kadri refused thing

Ouch. I thought about us revisiting this trade scenario.

Just going through this thread and I see that this is the 2nd defender who has us listed on their no trade list. Are we an undesirable destination?

 

[ToneDog]

Bobby Mac just said Leafs looking (long term) for a RHD with term that can play with Rielly and can play hard minutes. Then went on to say they won't trade any of their core pieces along with Sandin. Button later laughs and sarcastically says "and you wonder why they can't make a trade". Got to agree with Button, you gotta give to get and you are not getting a quality #1/2 RHD for a package of our depth pieces and Ceci.

 

[SprDaVE]

Bobby Mac just said Leafs looking (long term) for a RHD with term that can play with Rielly and can play hard minutes. Then went on to say they won't trade any of their core pieces along with Sandin. Button later laughs and sarcastically says "and you wonder why they can't make a trade". Got to agree with Button, you gotta give to get and you are not getting a quality #1/2 RHD for a package of our depth pieces and Ceci.

Not sure how assets like Kapanen and Johnsson and Liljegren and other good young players aren't valuable. Are the Leafs unable to add to their team without having to trade one of their top 5 players? Teams do it all the time. It's not like they are offering Timashov for Pietrangelo here.

2 years ago the Lightning were able to add McDonagh AND JT Miller for an average winger, an average prospect and a pretty good prospect but not a blue chipper, as well as 2 top 60 picks. McDonagh wasn't a pending UFA and neither was JT Miller.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Bobby Mac just said Leafs looking (long term) for a RHD with term that can play with Rielly and can play hard minutes. Then went on to say they won't trade any of their core pieces along with Sandin. Button later laughs and sarcastically says "and you wonder why they can't make a trade". Got to agree with Button, you gotta give to get and you are not getting a quality #1/2 RHD for a package of our depth pieces and Ceci.

I don't see AJ/Kap as core pieces

 

[Big Muddy]

Bobby Mac just said Leafs looking (long term) for a RHD with term that can play with Rielly and can play hard minutes. Then went on to say they won't trade any of their core pieces along with Sandin. Button later laughs and sarcastically says "and you wonder why they can't make a trade". Got to agree with Button, you gotta give to get and you are not getting a quality #1/2 RHD for a package of our depth pieces and Ceci.

If that's what Dubas is trying to do (e.g., AJ, Ceci + an additional lesser piece), I can see this as either being a pretty quiet deadline, or maybe just a minor deal happening.

 

[stewpac]

I think dubas is looking to use kappy and dermott as a package for a dman. It's not like the leafs are looking to add a #1 dman, Dubas wants a player to complement reilly and I think those two players can get us that. Problem is cap and the best way for us to get cap space is trading ceci, something easier said than done

 

[ToneDog]

Not sure how assets like Kapanen and Johnsson and Liljegren and other good young players aren't valuable. Are the Leafs unable to add to their team without having to trade one of their top 5 players? Teams do it all the time. It's not like they are offering Timashov for Pietrangelo here.

2 years ago the Lightning were able to add McDonagh AND JT Miller for an average winger, an average prospect and a pretty good prospect but not a blue chipper, as well as 2 top 60 picks. McDonagh wasn't a pending UFA and neither was JT Miller.

Our depth pieces should be able to get us a #3 or #4 RHD but I can't see them getting us a Pietrangelo, Parayko, Dumba, Slavin etc, The TB example you gave is a good one and if we could make a similar trade it would be great. Trouba was also acquired on the cheap but for reason it is never the Leafs that make these great deals.

 

[biotk]

Bobby Mac just said Leafs looking (long term) for a RHD with term that can play with Rielly and can play hard minutes. Then went on to say they won't trade any of their core pieces along with Sandin. Button later laughs and sarcastically says "and you wonder why they can't make a trade". Got to agree with Button, you gotta give to get and you are not getting a quality #1/2 RHD for a package of our depth pieces and Ceci.

While I agree that it is unrealistic to expect a top-end #1 RHD for what the Leafs are willing to part with, but the Leafs don't need someone like Seth Jones, or Pietrangelo, or Slavin - what they need is someone who can play with Rielly. Hainsey used to do that. Larsson could probably do that. Manson could do that. Risto might be able to do that. There are some others who might be available for the price that the Leafs are willing to pay (which for me would include only what Mirtle has in his tiers 3 - 5 of his article on the Leafs' trade tiers - so none of their core pieces and not Sandin. Let's not forget that they got Muzzin without losing a roster player - they can't add a 1st round pick, but they can give up Kapanen, or Johnsson, or Kerfoot and then prospects - Mirtle allows for any of them except Sandin and Robertson as trade possibilities - and any non-first round picks).

 

[ToneDog]

I don't see AJ/Kap as core pieces

You are correct, they are not. The big 4, Rielly, and maybe Andy are our core pieces. Hopefully Sandin and possibly Lily can become core pieces next year.

 

[ToneDog]

If that's what Dubas is trying to do (e.g., AJ, Ceci + an additional lesser piece), I can see this as being either being a pretty quiet deadline or maybe just a minor deal happening.

Don't forget Bracco.

 

[SprDaVE]

Our depth pieces should be able to get us a #3 or #4 RHD but I can't see them getting us a Pietrangelo, Parayko, Dumba, Slavin etc, The TB example you gave is a good one and if we could make a similar trade it would be great. Trouba was also acquired on the cheap but for reason it is never the Leafs that make these great deals.

I don't think the Leafs are expecting Pietrangelo and all those guys. There hasn't even been a link between the Leafs and Wild about Dumba, just that he might be available for the right price.

There's very little to suggest they are targetting a star defenseman. Someone that can play with Rielly and can log a good amount of minutes doesn't mean a star player.

 

[ACC1224]

I doubt all of them are available. It would have to be a really good deal for any kind of noticeable pick to be included I would say.

Johnsson/Kerfoot, Ceci (maybe Barrie but unlikely), Hutch, and most prospects/Marlies (Bracco being the best of the available guys).

Timashov, Gauthier or Moore could be available in the right scenario too, but they are more available in offseason trades. We need them for our 3rd and 4th lines right now.

I don't see why not. He hasn't been shy about moving picks in the past.

 

[biotk]

If that's what Dubas is trying to do (e.g., AJ, Ceci + an additional lesser piece), I can see this as being either being a pretty quiet deadline or maybe just a minor deal happening.

I think that it is going to be a pretty quiet deadline because their isn't a ton available and trades are a lot tougher than people realize, and it is going to take an overpay - but that is how it works if you want to add a decent piece to help you make a run for the cup (and in the Leafs' case not just this year, but for at least two years). Two months of Boyle for a 2nd was an overpay. Two month of Plek for a 2nd was an overpay. I don't think that AJ and Ceci gets you much at all. However, do you think that the Leafs' could get a pretty decent RHD, who has a couple years term, and who will be able to play with Rielly for AJ, Lilly, Ceci and a 2nd? I think they could get a pretty good D. I think it would take less than that to get Manson (if he is available). And I wouldn't pay that for Larsson or Risto either (again, if either is even available), but I think that either of them would improve the Leafs' D.

 

[LeafChief]

Craig Button must be turning teams down left, right and centre begging him to come work for them. What an intelligent man!

 

[ACC1224]

Craig Button must be turning teams down left, right and centre begging him to come work for them. What an intelligent man!

He seems happy doing what he is doing.
Is he actively looking for work in the league?

 

[Da Murf]

Bobby Mac just said Leafs looking (long term) for a RHD with term that can play with Rielly and can play hard minutes. Then went on to say they won't trade any of their core pieces along with Sandin. Button later laughs and sarcastically says "and you wonder why they can't make a trade". Got to agree with Button, you gotta give to get and you are not getting a quality #1/2 RHD for a package of our depth pieces and Ceci.

Most who listen to Button make one crucial error. As a scout/ talent assessor he is great. As a GM he almost put a Canadian Team out of business. The real key is where do you value AJ if you think hes a third liner you aren't getting much for him. if you see a guy who is a pain in ass who can play on our top line put up 40-50 pts , then you think that's something I can build around. You only need one GM who thinks he is the poor mans Marchant and *poof* you've got a deal.

As for Ceci, he is cap ballast. Salary to make a deal work ( see the NBA). Also his a 6' 2" 210 defender who shoots right, can play on your bottom pair and has no cap obligations after this season. That last part is his value.

Bracco is the epitome of blocked. He could be like Gagner in Columbus who plays on your 4th line and first unit PP.

Button also started by saying that AJ was a 3rd liner before he corrected himself to 6 to 9 forward.

 

[Big Muddy]

Not sure how assets like Kapanen and Johnsson and Liljegren and other good young players aren't valuable. Are the Leafs unable to add to their team without having to trade one of their top 5 players? Teams do it all the time. It's not like they are offering Timashov for Pietrangelo here.

2 years ago the Lightning were able to add McDonagh AND JT Miller for an average winger, an average prospect and a pretty good prospect but not a blue chipper, as well as 2 top 60 picks. McDonagh wasn't a pending UFA and neither was JT Miller.

Good point. But, one of the assets we typically offer is Ceci (a cap dump), plus there's no 1st round picks. I could be wrong, and hopefully I am, but I think we are going to have to up the ante if we want a legit top 4 defender.

 

[ryno23]

I think you will see Ceci moved before the deadline and packaged up with a Kappy or AJ.

D as of today

Muzzin - Holl (shutdown pair)
Dermott - Barrie
Sandin - Ceci

When Reilly is back

Muzzin - Holl (shutdown pair)
Reilly - Barrie
Sandin -Dermott

Marincin (press box filler) Lillgren (1st call up).

Which of those starting 6 D do the Leafs need to upgrade on? Do you move Barrie and get a more defensive guy to play with Reilly but that would hurt your #1 PP unit who have been so much better with Barrie on it. Do you move Dermott if you sign Muzzin for an equal RHD for next year?

I can see Dubas clearing cap space with AJ (who is replaceable with Moore, Soupman) and Ceci. You can then move Kerfoot up to play LW with Tavares and move Engvall back to the wing. You can then bring in a gritty 3C who can PK and bring some physicality to the lineup like an ummmm Kadri lol.

Yes the MSM keeps harping about the Leafs D but I think lots of their problems starts with the Leafs forwards who dangle the puck to much in wrong areas and cause turnovers or forget their man in the D zone and creates high danger chances

 

[Big Muddy]

While I agree that it is unrealistic to expect a top-end #1 RHD for what the Leafs are willing to part with, but the Leafs don't need someone like Seth Jones, or Pietrangelo, or Slavin - what they need is someone who can play with Rielly. Hainsey used to do that. Larsson could probably do that. Manson could do that. Risto might be able to do that. There are some others who might be available for the price that the Leafs are willing to pay (which for me would include only what Mirtle has in his tiers 3 - 5 of his article on the Leafs' trade tiers - so none of their core pieces and not Sandin. Let's not forget that they got Muzzin without losing a roster player - they can't add a 1st round pick, but they can give up Kapanen, or Johnsson, or Kerfoot and then prospects - Mirtle allows for any of them except Sandin and Robertson as trade possibilities - and any non-first round picks).

In odd twist of irony, Hainsey might be available again. He's a UFA, so Ottawa would probably listen it would seem. Expecting incoming artillery here LOL.

 

[Kiwi]

Bobby Mac just said Leafs looking (long term) for a RHD with term that can play with Rielly and can play hard minutes. Then went on to say they won't trade any of their core pieces along with Sandin. Button later laughs and sarcastically says "and you wonder why they can't make a trade". Got to agree with Button, you gotta give to get and you are not getting a quality #1/2 RHD for a package of our depth pieces and Ceci.

If the core is Nylander, Marner, Matthew's, Tavares, Rielly, Andersen and Sandin you've still got some pretty attractive pieces to dangle for a trade

Kapanen, Johnsson, Liljeren. Robertson, Mikheyev, Dermott just off the top of my head, say what you want but there's some guys in there I'd have a lot of interest in if I was another organization

 

[ACC1224]

In odd twist of irony, Hainsey might be available again. He's a UFA, so Ottawa would probably listen it would seem. Expecting incoming artillery here LOL.

He would easily be welcomed back here.

 

[Big Muddy]

I think that it is going to be a pretty quiet deadline because their isn't a ton available and trades are a lot tougher than people realize, and it is going to take an overpay - but that is how it works if you want to add a decent piece to help you make a run for the cup (and in the Leafs' case not just this year, but for at least two years). Two months of Boyle for a 2nd was an overpay. Two month of Plek for a 2nd was an overpay. I don't think that AJ and Ceci gets you much at all. However, do you think that the Leafs' could get a pretty decent RHD, who has a couple years term, and who will be able to play with Rielly for AJ, Lilly, Ceci and a 2nd? I think they could get a pretty good D. I think it would take less than that to get Manson (if he is available). And I wouldn't pay that for Larsson or Risto either (again, if either is even available), but I think that either of them would improve the Leafs' D.

Agree with your concept, but don't see many trade proposals here involving Liljegren, or not that many with a 2nd even. AJ and Ceci are standard offerings that are frequently mentioned of course.