Trades and Free Agent Talk -- The calm before the storm?

[ToneDog]

Yes, the defender market is always tough (a little easier in the summer). And yes, usually you have give up something to get something of course.

But, it does open the soon-to-be UFA defender market which widens the bottleneck.

No idea if this is a goal or route that Dubas would take. It would cost a lot less though. It might depend on how much pressure Dubas feels there is to produce results this season.

It actually depends on where the Leafs are close to the deadline. If they look like they can seriously contend, Dubas could explore the rental market. For now it seems they are looking to add a RHD with term.

 

[4thline]

No doubt there is quality there. It just isn't getting you a true #1 RHD to play with Rielly. You just have to set the bar lower. No idea where the bar is for Dubas but Bobby Mac did say that they were looking for a long term RHD which I take as a Dumba or higher.

I didn't infer that level of quality at all, I think long term partner and the other general language implied more a steady complementary player more than equal as a media/fan recognized top pair defenseman. Mid-twenties 3-4 type that can handle top comp with decent mobility and puck movement.

It's a fairly short list
Severson, Murphy, Manson, Larsson , (Maybe trade and sign for the likes of Vatanen/Tanev/Hamonic)

Brodin + Pesce that next step up and likely unavailable.

Even if you take McKenzie's list out of play JT,AM,MM,WN, +Sandin/Liljegren/Robertson there's still the assets to go after that top group.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kapanen and Dermott packaged for a legit top 4 rhd with term. If Hamilton wasn't hurt, I wonder if that could've been enough to pry Pesce away

The Pesce ship sailed last year, particularly when they traded Faulk and Fox. Even with a healthy Hamilton, the Canes were reportedly looking for a top 4 LHD to play with Pesce so there is almost no chance he is available. Also, TVR is a UFA this year and Hamilton next year so Pesce is the only RHD in Carolina signed long term.

 

[ToneDog]

I'd prefer it if he didn't do something because "pressure", that doesn't usually lead to positive outcomes

I'd get somebody that can do a job now and won't be excessively expensive like Dillon or Hainsey and wait for the off-season if were going #1D shopping, I guess a pending UFA they like and want to extend could make some sense as well like Vatanen



You've got the best Marlies D who's 20 years old and having a breakout AHL season and a kid that's having one of the best draft plus one goalscoring seasons in recent history in the OHL on that list, that's not even including Dermott and Kapanen

If that lot doesn't get somebody bloody good there's a major problem somewhere

Agreed but I doubt they want or can afford to trade Sandin. You gotta have some good players on ELC and we do not have enough of them.

 

[biotk]

Agreed but I doubt they want or can afford to trade Sandin. You gotta have some good players on ELC and we do not have enough of them.

For what it is worth Mirtle listed the Leafs' untouchables as: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly and Sandin.

 

[Big Muddy]

I'd prefer it if he didn't do something because "pressure", that doesn't usually lead to positive outcomes

I'd get somebody that can do a job now and won't be excessively expensive like Dillon or Hainsey and wait for the off-season if were going #1D shopping, I guess a pending UFA they like and want to extend could make some sense as well like Vatanen

Yes. I've had parallel thoughts.

 

[Kiwi]

Agreed but I doubt they want or can afford to trade Sandin. You gotta have some good players on ELC and we do not have enough of them.

Sandin is on the untouchables list, Robertson and Liljeren are not however and they are very, very good prospects

 

[ToneDog]

For what it is worth Mirtle listed the Leafs' untouchables as: The big three, Tavares, Rielly and Sandin.

I'd add Matthews. Odds are low that they'd move Marner or Nylander yet.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'd add Matthews. Odds are low that they'd move Marner or Nylander yet.

I read that as the big 3 (Marner, Nylander Matthews), Tavares, Rielly and Sandin...to 6 players total. At least that's what I think he meant?

 

[RD616]

Would other Leafs fans be on board with this package:

Johnsson
Ceci (@50% retained)

for

Larsson
4th Round Pick

Not sure if Edmonton would be willing to trade Larsson for Johnnson though. Sounds like they are much more interested in Kapanen..

 

[ToneDog]

Would other Leafs fans be on board with this package:

Johnsson
Ceci (@50% retained)

for

Larsson
4th Round Pick

Not sure if Edmonton would be willing to trade Larsson for Johnnson though. Sounds like they are much more interested in Kapanen..

I wouldn't do AJ and Ceci let alone add a 4th if I were the Oilers.

 

[biotk]

Agreed. There's a dichotomy here. We can look for either:

1. A legit, good (top 4) defender that is so because he has all of the necessary skills to be one of those. This kind of defender would carry the pairing he's on regardless of his mate; OR,
2. A defender that has the complimentary skills to pair with a guy like Reilly.

#2 is a lot easier to do, and won't cost the higher value assets that we want to keep. The challenge or problem I see is thinking that we can do #1 with a package of lesser, middling assets. jmho.

I agree. If a legit top-4 RHD could come cheap the weakness would have been addressed 5 years ago (I feel the same way about getting a legit backup goalie who could keep the team competitive if Freddie gets injured and could potentially take over as the starter in 2021 - not super expensive - but way more than people on here think it should cost).

 

[biotk]

I'd add Matthews. Odds are low that they'd move Marner or Nylander yet.

I read that as the big 3 (Marner, Nylander Matthews), Tavares, Rielly and Sandin...to 6 players total. At least that's what I think he meant?

Yes - but I will edit the OP.

 

[biotk]

I wouldn't do AJ and Ceci let alone add a 4th if I were the Oilers.

Agreed - I don't know if the Oilers are interested in moving Larsson at all during the season (they should make the playoffs), but if they do I think that it would likely be Kapanen, Ceci and a pick for Larsson. Maybe AJ - but if so the pick would be higher.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't think either player gets you a sniff at those guys.

They discussed this last week here on Sportsnet960, and they suggested to get Kapanen might take a Hanifin, said they wouldn't be getting him for Hamonic or Brodie.
Of course these weren't Leafs paid talking heads.

 

[LeafsNation75]

For what it is worth Mirtle listed the Leafs' untouchables as: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly and Sandin.

That's something any Leafs fans on here could write in an article because they are the obvious untouchables. I'm surprised that he didn't include Liljegren as one of them.

 

[Big Muddy]

It actually depends on where the Leafs are close to the deadline. If they look like they can seriously contend, Dubas could explore the rental market. For now it seems they are looking to add a RHD with term.

Agreed. That's what we are hearing lately from sources like Bobby Mac.

 

[Big Muddy]

They discussed this last week here on Sportsnet960, and they suggested to get Kapanen might take a Hanifin, said they wouldn't be getting him for Hamonic or Brodie.
Of course these weren't Leafs paid talking heads.

I listened to that podcast. It made me wonder if the Leafs talking heads could have more influence than we think on other non-Toronto centric media. Its pervasive. No idea if its true or not tbh though - just some musing on my part.

 

[biotk]

That's something any Leafs fans on here could write in an article because they are the obvious untouchables. I'm surprised that he didn't include Liljegren as one of them.

Mirtle thinks that if a big trade (and getting a legit top-4 is what he means by a big trade - like the Muzzin trade) is made Liljegren is one of the most likely players to be a part of it (however, he doesn't think that a big trade is likely).

 

[LeafsNation75]

Mirtle thinks that if a big trade is made Liljegren is one of the most likely players to be a part of it.

Last year Liljegren was untouchable in the Jake Muzzin trade at that time along with Sandin.

 

[SprDaVE]

Mirtle thinks that if a big trade (and getting a legit top-4 is what he means by a big trade - like the Muzzin trade) is made Liljegren is one of the most likely players to be a part of it (however, he doesn't think that a big trade is likely).

He's definitely in play if the Leafs can get that top RHD defenseman they've been looking for. I can see it.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Last year Liljegren was untouchable in the Jake Muzzin trade at that time along with Sandin.

IIRC LA actually came out and said they wanted Durzi over Lilljegren anyway. Pretty crazy.

 

[biotk]

Last year Liljegren was untouchable in the Jake Muzzin trade at that time along with Sandin.

We know that is not true. Sandin was untouchable. After the Muzzin trade Dubas added Liljegren to the list (most likely because they were no longer after a big trade - if Liljegren helps get a big trade done he will be traded).

 

[biotk]

IIRC LA actually came out and said they wanted Durzi over Lilljegren anyway. Pretty crazy.

Friedman has said that LA chose Durzi over Liljegren, but there is little doubt that they were not offered one for one. The package for Liljegren would have been different than the one with Durzi. Liljegren's play this has likely improved his value for other teams that it would be more in line with what Toronto would want for him.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

IIRC LA actually came out and said they wanted Durzi over Lilljegren anyway. Pretty crazy.

I would hope that their GM, a HOF defenseman, would know how to evaluate defensemen and realize that Liljegren is significantly better than Durzi.

Pretty sure LA would not say that, or else they look pretty stupid.