Rumor: Trade rumours/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 8)

[FlabJack]

Would you rather see the Sens getting a good prospect and a first for Duchene/Stone or two good prospects?

Say for example if the Sens traded either Stone or Duchene to the Jets would you rather take
Vesalainen+Niku or
2019 or 2020 1st + Niku?
Not saying these are feasible deals in terms of value, but the idea itself is the point here: what would be of more value to the team, a pick and a prospect or two prospects that have already started to show what kind of development track they are on? Is the first round pick necessary or would it be better to dip in another teams prospect pool?

If the Sens get two good prospects rather than a good prospect and a late round first would that be preferable to you?

 

[Crosside]

Would you rather see the Sens getting a good prospect and a first for Duchene/Stone or two good prospects?

Say for example if the Sens traded either Stone or Duchene to the Jets would you rather take
Vesalainen+Niku or
2019 or 2020 1st + Niku?
Not saying these are feasible deals in terms of value, but the idea itself is the point here: what would be of more value to the team, a pick and a prospect or two prospects that have already started to show what kind of development track they are on? Is the first round pick necessary or would it be better to dip in another teams prospect pool?

If the Sens get two good prospects rather than a good prospect and a late round first would that be preferable to you?

Niku shoot left but if he play right because if he play left we are ok at left

 

[TkachukNorris79]

You go for unprotected 2020 picks if you can get them. No question.

Agreed. I like this strategy. We already have SJ's and who knows what they could be like next year. EK looming, Thornton getting real old, pavelski aging and UFA, Burns turning 34. You never know when something happens like the Ducks this year...

Would you rather see the Sens getting a good prospect and a first for Duchene/Stone or two good prospects?

Say for example if the Sens traded either Stone or Duchene to the Jets would you rather take
Vesalainen+Niku or
2019 or 2020 1st + Niku?
Not saying these are feasible deals in terms of value, but the idea itself is the point here: what would be of more value to the team, a pick and a prospect or two prospects that have already started to show what kind of development track they are on? Is the first round pick necessary or would it be better to dip in another teams prospect pool?

If the Sens get two good prospects rather than a good prospect and a late round first would that be preferable to you?

Me personally, if they're valued somewhat equally, give me the prospect. Vesalainen and Niku are both at least 2 years ahead of a late 2019 1st. Probably 3 years ahead. The bigger our 19-24 group is, the better.

Chabot, Wolanin, Lajoie, Jaros, JBD, Gustavsson, Hogberg, Tkachuk, White, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Norris, Balcers, Chlapik, Paul.

It's not gonna happen, but if you add Niku, Vesalainen, Tolvanen and Fabbro, that's a full roster of under 24. And all but JBD, Gus and Norris are basically NHL ready. Add in some veterans (hmmm Mark Stone would be a good role model) and we've got a recipe for success.

 

[2CHAINZ]

Agreed. I like this strategy. We already have SJ's and who knows what they could be like next year. EK looming, Thornton getting real old, pavelski aging and UFA, Burns turning 34. You never know when something happens like the Ducks this year...



Me personally, if they're valued somewhat equally, give me the prospect. Vesalainen and Niku are both at least 2 years ahead of a late 2019 1st. Probably 3 years ahead. The bigger our 19-24 group is, the better.

Chabot, Wolanin, Lajoie, Jaros, JBD, Gustavsson, Hogberg, Tkachuk, White, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Norris, Balcers, Chlapik, Paul.

It's not gonna happen, but if you add Niku, Vesalainen, Tolvanen and Fabbro, that's a full roster of under 24. And all but JBD, Gus and Norris are basically NHL ready. Add in some veterans (hmmm Mark Stone would be a good role model) and we've got a recipe for success.

A lineup like that, well that's Eugene's wet dream.

 

[HSF]

Agreed. I like this strategy. We already have SJ's and who knows what they could be like next year. EK looming, Thornton getting real old, pavelski aging and UFA, Burns turning 34. You never know when something happens like the Ducks this year...



Me personally, if they're valued somewhat equally, give me the prospect. Vesalainen and Niku are both at least 2 years ahead of a late 2019 1st. Probably 3 years ahead. The bigger our 19-24 group is, the better.

Chabot, Wolanin, Lajoie, Jaros, JBD, Gustavsson, Hogberg, Tkachuk, White, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Norris, Balcers, Chlapik, Paul.

It's not gonna happen, but if you add Niku, Vesalainen, Tolvanen and Fabbro, that's a full roster of under 24. And all but JBD, Gus and Norris are basically NHL ready. Add in some veterans (hmmm Mark Stone would be a good role model) and we've got a recipe for success.

lol. We probably only get one of those if our ufa signs with that team

highly unlikely

 

[JD1]

There's no way anything can be said or done to change their mind at this point with days to go before the TDL. To get this far without really even knowing if they want to stay is insanity(if that is the case).

If the plan truly is to sign them there should already have been serious, ongoing talks for weeks now yet they've had the bare minimum number of meetings from all accounts. This is on Dorion for not being more proactive. In fact, they both should have been signed long term last summer.

What is the bare minimum number of meetings? 3 face to face meetings plus 5 phone calls? Is there a threshold on bare minimum number of meetings and phone calls where you cross a threshold from being reactive to proactive? How many face to face meetings have they had? How many phone calls? How many hours have been spent talking these signings through with agents?

If you want to say that these guys won't sign because this team is a Dorion created tire fire then you have a point, but suggesting it's on Dorion because he's not actively working on it seems a little simple to me.

 

[JD1]

I don’t get when people say this. He obviously isn’t meshing well in Nashville, but I fail to see how a 6x6 deal for a top 6C is a mistake.

A 6 by 6 deal for a top 6C isn't a mistake. A lot of ufa deals aren't mistakes when they are initially signed. It's as the years go by that the contracts are viewed as a mistake.

In Turris's case he got off to a really hot start when he went to Nashville. Despite that hot start, he's only put up 63 points in 111 games including playoffs. And just this morning LeBrun was talking about Nashville as a potential destination for Duchene. Why? Because Turris isn't producing in that slot. And the scary thing with Turris is if he cannot play top 6 minutes, between the small frame and the average speed he is not well suited to play a shut down or checking game.

A 6 by 6 deal for a 2C is not the problem, Turris not playing at that level is. And Nashville will owe him 30M after this year.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

lol. We probably only get one of those if our ufa signs with that team

highly unlikely

I said "not gonna happen" at the beginning of the sentence, it was more of an example for the person asking if I'd rather the prsopect+1st or two prospects. Those late 1sts could easily end up being prospects like Vesalainen (24th) or Tolvanen (30th). I'd obviously rather the guys be ready, but if they're more willing to do a high end prospect, a 1st and another decent piece, we take that. If I trust anything in this organization, it's our amateur scouting.

 

[Grizz MacArthur]

Sens going into full rebuild from my gut feeling. I expect Stone to go to Winnipeg for Niku and a 1st and Duchene to go to Nashville for Tolvanen and a 1st. Dzingel to Calgary for 1st.

Sens bring in Batherson, Formenton, Brown next year and we have a young roster with a long year ahead.

If the Sens only did that, they'd still have to spend about $15 million just to hit the salary cap floor.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If they do trade the three guys would you want 1st in this years draft or the 2020 draft? It feels like the 2020 draft is very deep with higher skilled players than this year.

It would be better to get 2020 because of the dynamic where NSH, WPG, etc will be giving us 2019 picks that we already know are at the end of the draft this season.

Those teams aren't giving us their 2020 pick though. Teams don't do that.

If we want a 2020 pick, we would have to deal with one of the teams on the bubble and trade for a playoff protected 2019 pick, which would then transfer as an unprotected 2020 pick if that team misses the playoffs.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If the Sens only did that, they'd still have to spend about $15 million just to hit the salary cap floor.

If his proposals happened, they probably involve us bringing back roster players from other teams. Someone like Bonino or Smith from NSH or Perrault from WPG.

We also have a few potential raises to give out.

Cap floor will never be an issue regardless because all we need to do is call up Vegas or Detroit and ask for insured contracts like Clarkson or Zetterberg. We can also sign players like the Brian Boyle types to overpriced one year deals to hit the floor and flip them for picks at the deadline. There's lots of possibilities.

 

[Qward]

It's sad when the owner looks at Arizona and sees a successful business model

 

[The Lewler]

If the Sens only did that, they'd still have to spend about $15 million just to hit the salary cap floor.

100% guaranteed they will pay Ceci $5.5-$6 million in this scenario

$10 million left to spend.

Colin White..? $3 million? $4 million?

$7 million left to spend.

Anders Nilsson. $4 million?

$3 million left to spend.

Sign some rando mid tier UFA to $4 million or so and you're "good to go" FML.

Does that sound plausible?

 

[SensFactor]

It's dead silence from Dorion yesterday and likely today. Last pitch to both apparently coming today as per Bruce the beaver.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

100% guaranteed they will pay Ceci $5.5-$6 million in this scenario

$10 million left to spend.

Colin White..? $3 million? $4 million?

$7 million left to spend.

Anders Nilsson. $4 million?

$3 million left to spend.

Sign some rando mid tier UFA to $4 million or so and you're "good to go" FML.

Does that sound plausible?

How I see it going is we take back guys like Bonino and Perrault which is easily 8-9 million on top 9 forwards that we'll just flip out at the trade deadline for 3rd or 2nd round picks. Sign Colin White to a 6-8 year deal in the 4.0-5.0 million range that is backloaded. Then we'll sign Nilsson to something in the 2.5-3.5 million range (hopefully closer to 2.5). That's 17 million worth of cap right there.

We also have to fill out the roster to 22-23 men which costs about 800k per player, that adds up quickly.

 

[Grizz MacArthur]

100% guaranteed they will pay Ceci $5.5-$6 million in this scenario

$10 million left to spend.

Colin White..? $3 million? $4 million?

$7 million left to spend.

Anders Nilsson. $4 million?

$3 million left to spend.

Sign some rando mid tier UFA to $4 million or so and you're "good to go" FML.

Does that sound plausible?

FML sounds right

 

[Riceroni]

Best case scenario:
- Sign Stone $9M x 8 years, Duchene $8.25 x 8 years
- Dzingel to Boston for 1st 2020, 3rd 2019
- Ceci to Tampa for 2nd 2019
- Tierney to NYI for 2nd 2019, 4th 2020
- Nilsson to Nashville for 3rd 2019

 

[Riceroni]

Sens going into full rebuild from my gut feeling. I expect Stone to go to Winnipeg for Niku and a 1st and Duchene to go to Nashville for Tolvanen and a 1st. Dzingel to Calgary for 1st.

Sens bring in Batherson, Formenton, Brown next year and we have a young roster with a long year ahead.

I can get behind this... and who knows what July 1st brings back!!! EK65

 

[Emerica]

I can get behind this... and who knows what July 1st brings back!!! EK65

Haha

 

[Artanis]

Best case scenario:
- Sign Stone $9M x 8 years, Duchene $8.25 x 8 years
- Dzingel to Boston for 1st 2020, 3rd 2019
- Ceci to Tampa for 2nd 2019
- Tierney to NYI for 2nd 2019, 4th 2020
- Nilsson to Nashville for 3rd 2019

If the team is prepared to do a full rebuild, i'd prefer that more than be mediocre for years. Also it's clear Duchene / Stone don't want to be here, so lets move them on.

 

[pzeeman]

Best case scenario:
- Sign Stone $9M x 8 years, Duchene $8.25 x 8 years
- Dzingel to Boston for 1st 2020, 3rd 2019
- Ceci to Tampa for 2nd 2019
- Tierney to NYI for 2nd 2019, 4th 2020
- Nilsson to Nashville for 3rd 2019

I would keep Nilsson, but other than that, I like the cut of your jib.

 

[stempniaksen]

Best case scenario:
- Sign Stone $9M x 8 years, Duchene $8.25 x 8 years
- Dzingel to Boston for 1st 2020, 3rd 2019
- Ceci to Tampa for 2nd 2019
- Tierney to NYI for 2nd 2019, 4th 2020
- Nilsson to Nashville for 3rd 2019

I actually think your trade returns are low for the most part, but there's no chance in hell Nilsson returns a 3rd, let alone from the team with the most stable goaltending tandem in the league.

 

[Riceroni]

I actually think your trade returns are low for the most part, but there's no chance in hell Nilsson returns a 3rd, let alone from the team with the most stable goaltending tandem in the league.

Ok, true... maybe Columbus...

 

[bert]

What is the bare minimum number of meetings? 3 face to face meetings plus 5 phone calls? Is there a threshold on bare minimum number of meetings and phone calls where you cross a threshold from being reactive to proactive? How many face to face meetings have they had? How many phone calls? How many hours have been spent talking these signings through with agents?

If you want to say that these guys won't sign because this team is a Dorion created tire fire then you have a point, but suggesting it's on Dorion because he's not actively working on it seems a little simple to me.

Well if Dorion has no intent on seriously trying to sign them to extensions then who is it on? We saw the exact same song and dance with Karlsson. Why would this be any different? Karlsson is better than Stone and Duchene.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I actually think your trade returns are low for the most part, but there's no chance in hell Nilsson returns a 3rd, let alone from the team with the most stable goaltending tandem in the league.

I think Dzingel return is high. I think we're going to be lucky to get a 1st. Look at Carolina supposedly pulling back with trading Ferland, and the rumours of us pulling back trying to retain Dzingel. I think it's an indication that the market for the second tier of forward rentals is not strong. Evander Kane only returned a 2nd as a rental (became a 1st because he re-signed) and two minor pieces last year. Grabner also only returned a 2nd. The way I see the Dzingel trade panning out is that we'll settle for a 2nd+C Prospect. If we're lucky, the 2nd will be conditionally a 1st.

Nilsson return is high as of now, but if he has a string of 3-4 more .920+ type games, and the right situation plays out with a playoff team losing their starter to injury, I could see him getting a 3rd. I see it a lot more likely that we deal Anderson for a 3rd and keep Nilsson. Anderson is gone in 2020, Nilsson can be extended 2-3 years as a bridge to Gustavsson/Daccord.

Tierney return is way low. That's like what he'd get as a rental in a worst case scenario. He has 2.5 years of team control left. He is also underpriced compared to his spot on most teams depth charts when compared to the UFA options they'd have to fill the role. If a contender really wanted Tierney, we'd get a 1st for him. Eller went for two 2nds at the draft a few years back, much worse Cs have gone for a 2nd+ as rentals. So I'd say either a late 1st, two 2nds, or a 2nd and a 2nd round tier prospect.