Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 5)

[Sun God Nika]

is 4.75M * 7 fair for Dzingel?

 

[Tuna99]

is 4.75M * 7 fair for Dzingel?

I think that’s low. Tatar got $5.3 coming off a 21 and 26 goals season and Dzingel will have better stats then that, and Tatar signed 3 years ago.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

is 4.75M * 7 fair for Dzingel?

He can get more on the open market I think. I think a good comparable for Dzingel's contract is Tomas Tatar. Red Wings signed him. He was 26, coming off 3 seasons at around 25-29 goals and 45-55 points (around Dzingers numbers) and got a 4x5.3. I wouldn't be surprised if he got 5x5.5. Maybe even 6 if he goes to a playoff team and plays at the same level or higher.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

I think that’s low. Tatar got $5.3 coming off a 21 and 26 goals season and Dzingel will have better stats then that, and Tatar signed 3 years ago.

LOL you beat me to it by a few minutes, probably should have refreshed the page before posting. But Tatar is probably one of the better comparisons. Maybe we should sign and trade Dzingel for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd

 

[Tuna99]

LOL you beat me to it by a few minutes, probably should have refreshed the page before posting. But Tatar is probably one of the better comparisons. Maybe we should sign and trade Dzingel for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd

That’s just it - Dzingel I think gets you a 1st and a prospect or a pick.

Something like:

Ott: Washington 1st 2019, Washington 2nd 2020
Washington: Ryan Dzingel

 

[Tkachuk27]

Id rather trade Duchene and keep Dzingel for half the price

Keep stacking up picks and prospects & go all in on Alexis Lafrenière next year

 

[TkachukNorris79]

That’s just it - Dzingel I think gets you a 1st and a prospect or a pick.

Something like:

Ott: Washington 1st 2019, Washington 2nd 2020
Washington: Ryan Dzingel

Agreed. And if Dorion was smart, he'd target the desparate GMs. This is why Dzingel for EDM 1st would be hilarious. I'd even throw in Harpur for them cause he's desparate for D help too.

Dzingel+Harpur for 2019 1st+B prospect and a conditional 2020 2nd if Dzingel signs there. Or something like that.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Id rather trade Duchene and keep Dzingel for half the price

Keep stacking up picks and prospects & go all in on Alexis Lafrenière next year

I'd be fine with it, if they came out and said they wanted to be patient with the rebuild. Won't be pretty for ticket sales. And if you do that you should trade Stone too as he'd be like 32-33 by the time we're ready to contend.

 

[Multigrain]

What a weird thing to assume. Maybe he hates Trump America. Maybe he has a hottie in Ottawa who won't leave. Maybe he likes the Kanata Centrum. Who friggin knows???

Think his girfriend is a golfer from Florida
Just family ties and connections makes sense if he could play in the USA and avoid the tax hit why not?
Politics is politics in any country lmao

 

[pzeeman]

anybody here for keeping Ceci??

our right side has really stabilized and with JBD on the way, Ceci and Jaros being long term guys on that side you have the size, skating, decent offence and good compete and good attitudes. DeMelo also decent but with him being a FA I can’t see Ottawa paying him to stick around, so I think he’ll get traded next season and JBD takes that spot over with Jaros and Ceci cementing the two pairings.

I’m into keeping Ceci just because he’s a pretty good Dman and with Jaros it stabilizes that entire right side for the next 5-7 years, which would be a solid organizational move.

My thought is that Ceci, like Dzingle, will be too rich for this team.

The Senators need to be a group that pays a premium price for all star talent, and then spend the rest on young, cost-controlled contributors. I don't think there's any space on this team for high priced middle talent. Pay for the Stones, Duchenes and (*sniff*) Karlssons, not the Dzingles, Cecis, Smiths, Andresons, Condons or (*sniff*) Pageaus.

 

[Multigrain]

is 4.75M * 7 fair for Dzingel?

Give me three other players currently making that and I will tell you

 

[Sun God Nika]

Give me three other players currently making that and I will tell you

Trochek, Nyquist McDonagh

 

[Xspyrit]

Here's what what I would do if I could sign Stone and Duchene around 8.5 per.

I'd even keep Dzingel. But I won't need Ceci and Tierney going forward as I got depth coming and they will get more costly so I'm trading them. On RD, I have Jaros and DeMelo who are both #4-6 Ds (and Ceci should be a #4), so it makes him expendable. Plus I have JBD coming in not too long, but in the meanwhile I will need an established RD who's specialty is defensive play (like a prime Methot on RD). Ceci is not that guy because he was never supposed to be a "shutdown" D-man. Tierney is not really needed going forward too as I want to keep Pageau in the cards for longer, and I have Chlapik, Brown, Norris still not graduated. Plus, I kept Duchene and I have White breaking out. I'm going to be very fine at center. Conclusion, I'm using Tierney and Ceci as the pieces to get me a #3 D-man

I'm also trading Boedker and Zack Smith for pick(s), with some salary retained to make it work in Smith's case. I'm still keeping Ryan around 1 more year, as some kind of insurance policy who takes off some pressure on the younger forwards. Even if expensive, I'm way way under the cap and he's a great skilled forward stop-gap.

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Dzingel, Ryan $5,500,000	Duchene, Matt $8,500,000	Batherson, Drake $736,666
Tkachuk, Brady $925,000	White, Colin $2,000,000	Stone, Mark $8,500,000
Formenton, Alex $753,333	Pageau, Jean-Gabriel $3,100,000	Ryan, Bobby $7,250,000
Paul, Nicholas $900,000	Chlapik, Filip $728,333	Balcers, Rūdolfs $759,167

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Chabot, Thomas $863,333	DeMelo, Dylan $900,000	Anderson, Craig $4,750,000
Wolanin, Christian $1,500,000	Jaros, Christian $755,000	Nilsson, Anders $2,250,000
Lajoie, Maxime $710,000	Harpur, Ben $725,000
Borowiecki, Mark $1,200,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I have Tierney, Ceci, Boedker and Smith as trade chips and all I need is a solid Top-4 D-man (DeMelo then moves on the 3rd pairing instead of Harpur). With a new coaching staff, that team could be competitive and even make the playoffs. All those forward lines could produce offense and with a Methot-type to play with Chabot, I think that defense could be solid.

Or maybe Karlsson signs as a UFA (well it's a dream but I think it's realistic if new ownership)

If Duchene and Stone both sign, it's probably because they know a sale will happen in the near future and the move to a new arena downtown will be on its way.

Not a great starting point at all if you are considering what his market value would be around the league. Offer fair value, quit the bull crap or move along so you can devote your time to getting a realistic return. No time for low ball offers. We all know he will get more than 8 mill per season!

8 x 8 is not a fair offer? Do you know that in 2019-20, only 22 forwards will have a cap hit over 8.0 M$ per year? Logan Couture just got 8 x 8 recently and I think it's right in the ballpark for Duchene.

 

[bert]

I think that’s low. Tatar got $5.3 coming off a 21 and 26 goals season and Dzingel will have better stats then that, and Tatar signed 3 years ago.

He might take that though, thats alot of term for him brings him to 33 years old. Id definitely do it if im the sens and im not poor.

 

[Multigrain]

Trochek, Nyquist McDonagh

Would you still give him this lets just say if Stone and Duchene are gone?

 

[Multigrain]

Here's what what I would do if I could sign Stone and Duchene around 8.5 per.

I'd even keep Dzingel. But I won't need Ceci and Tierney going forward as I got depth coming and they will get more costly so I'm trading them. On RD, I have Jaros and DeMelo who are both #4-6 Ds (and Ceci should be a #4), so it makes him expendable. Plus I have JBD coming in not too long, but in the meanwhile I will need an established RD who's specialty is defensive play (like a prime Methot on RD). Ceci is not that guy because he was never supposed to be a "shutdown" D-man. Tierney is not really needed going forward too as I want to keep Pageau in the cards for longer, and I have Chlapik, Brown, Norris still not graduated. Plus, I kept Duchene and I have White breaking out. I'm going to be very fine at center. Conclusion, I'm using Tierney and Ceci as the pieces to get me a #3 D-man

I'm also trading Boedker and Zack Smith for pick(s), with some salary retained to make it work in Smith's case. I'm still keeping Ryan around 1 more year, as some kind of insurance policy who takes off some pressure on the younger forwards. Even if expensive, I'm way way under the cap and he's a great skilled forward stop-gap.

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Dzingel, Ryan $5,500,000	Duchene, Matt $8,500,000	Batherson, Drake $736,666
Tkachuk, Brady $925,000	White, Colin $2,000,000	Stone, Mark $8,500,000
Formenton, Alex $753,333	Pageau, Jean-Gabriel $3,100,000	Ryan, Bobby $7,250,000
Paul, Nicholas $900,000	Chlapik, Filip $728,333	Balcers, Rūdolfs $759,167

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Chabot, Thomas $863,333	DeMelo, Dylan $900,000	Anderson, Craig $4,750,000
Wolanin, Christian $1,500,000	Jaros, Christian $755,000	Nilsson, Anders $2,250,000
Lajoie, Maxime $710,000	Harpur, Ben $725,000
Borowiecki, Mark $1,200,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I have Tierney, Ceci, Boedker and Smith as trade chips and all I need is a solid Top-4 D-man (DeMelo then moves on the 3rd pairing instead of Harpur). With a new coaching staff, that team could be competitive and even make the playoffs. All those forward lines could produce offense and with a Methot-type to play with Chabot, I think that defense could be solid.

Or maybe Karlsson signs as a UFA (well it's a dream but I think it's realistic if new ownership)

If Duchene and Stone both sign, it's probably because they know a sale will happen in the near future and the move to a new arena downtown will be on its way.



8 x 8 is not a fair offer? Do you know that in 2019-20, only 22 forwards are to have a cap hit over 8.0 M$ per year? Logan Couture just got 8 x 8 recent;y and I think it's right in the ballpark for Duchene.

Great to look at all the numbers laid out like this. Just looking at the Dzingel number maybe its me but I think it is a bit high for him. Makes me a little nervous. Would like to see him in the high 3's but doubt that will happen with maybe with an extra 1M in incentive based rewards.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Great to look at all the numbers laid out like this. Just looking at the Dzingel number maybe its me but I think it is a bit high for him. Makes me a little nervous. Would like to see him in the high 3's but doubt that will happen with maybe with an extra 1M in incentive based rewards.

No way Dzingel is getting in the high 3's. Maybe if he signed a 4 year extension in the 2018 off season and didn't want to bet on himself, we could have gotten him in the high 3's.

You also can't give bonuses on a standard player contract, and even if you could, Dzingel wouldn't have any reason to sign it.

There's a big spread for Dzingel right now in terms of what he could get. I would put it in the 4-6 million range. He's a player who does not have an extensive resume and has never hit 30 goals/60 points before, which is where he is trending right now. Because of that, it'll hurt his market value.

If we were serious about signing him right now, I would expect something in the 4.5-5.5 range over 5 years.

With Dzingel, it's the type of situation where if he's going to be a 25-30 goal 50-60 point player every year going forward, he's screwed by his contract ending maybe one year too soon because if he had an extra year to establish himself he could get 6-7 million over 7 years as a UFA. But if he's actually a 15-20/40 point type forward, his contract is ending at the perfect time for him to cash in because then his value drops to that 4x4 type range.

If he is dealt at the deadline and doesn't extend right away with his new team, the next few months will go far in determining how strong of a contract he gets. If he goes to a new team and falls completely flat, I think some teams will become apprehensive about giving him top 6 money and it might soften the market for him as a UFA. If he goes and continues on with his great level of play, he's going to cement himself as a guy who should be seen as a 1st/2nd liner.

 

[JungleBeat]

Duchene is going to be 29 next year while the team is still rebuilding. By the time the team is competitive he’ll be out of his prime, trading him now could be a good option than signing him for eight years.

We’ll see what Dorion does, but I wouldn’t be opposed to clearing out all useless contracts and extending Duchene. The team needs to be smart with this and not offer contracts to scrubs like Ceci.

 

[HSF]

Duchene is going to be 29 next year while the team is still rebuilding. By the time the team is competitive he’ll be out of his prime, trading him now could be a good option than signing him for eight years.

We’ll see what Dorion does, but I wouldn’t be opposed to clearing out all useless contracts and extending Duchene. The team needs to be smart with this and not offer contracts to scrubs like Ceci.

Duchene probably stays more effective longer than stone due to his skating imo

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Duchene probably stays more effective longer than stone due to his skating imo

Duchene takes a ton of punishment due to his possession based style. I think because of that it could be a toss up over who declines earlier. A guy always holding on to the puck, going strong into the boards takes a ton of punishment.

Stone will have difficulty if he loses a step, but there's no guarantee he is going to lose a step anytime soon. He is also two years younger with less mileage on his body in terms of pro hockey.

If we can only keep one, I keep Stone over Duchene. If Stone won't stay, I'd probably rather just trade Duchene and do a scorched earth rebuild. But if Duchene won't stay, I'd gladly keep only Stone.

Toronto is stacked right now.

Tampa Bay is stacked right now.

The downtown arena is five years away.

Nobody is going to the games anyways because Melnyk has destroyed this brand.

Our franchise player was traded.

Even if we get good soon, Melnyk doesn't have the money to spend to keep a developing core together.

There will never, ever, ever be a more perfect time to say f*** it and tank for a few seasons. All the arguments against tanking are moot because we're suffering the consequences that those arguments argue are possible regardless of whether we tank. Namely poor fan interest and low ticket sales.

Tanking isn't what it used to be because of the new lottery system, but to quote Michael Scott, you miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take.

We sign Stone+Duchene, we're only spending 60 million, maybe 68 million if we're really lucky and Melnyk finds a few million in the cushions of his couch in Barbados. Where does allocating 25+ million of our budget to Stone, Duchene, and Ryan get us? We're still going to stink, only we won't stink bad enough to have a legit shot at drafting elite talent that will help elevate the team. Fans still won't show up because we're not going to be winning playing in the same division as BOS/TOR/TBL. Then 5 years from now when we could have had a team primed and ready to take over with Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, and White signed to long term cost controlled deals, and ideally at least two top 5 picks developed and added to that core, we won't have those top 5 picks and Duchene will be a declining 33 year old most likely with a full NMC. It's also possible that by then, maybe there is an ownership change, and maybe a new ownership would be more willing to spend money to make money so to speak and help revive interest in a team that has a strong young core and would hopefully be ready to take a step into contention.

We need to do this right. Everything is going wrong, and we should take advantage of everything going wrong in that it has removed any barriers to blow it up and do a full scale rebuild with only maybe Stone (if he wants to stay) as someone we keep going forward.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Duchene probably stays more effective longer than stone due to his skating imo

I would say the opposite since Stone doesnt rely on his skating while Duchene does. Duchene will slow down in his 30s and that will affect him way more than Stone when he slows down.

 

[GoSenatorsGo]

Do you guys think we can trade Dzingel to St.Louis for one of their Defensemen? Obviously there would be other pets in the trade, but I saw someone mention in the Duchene thread that a Methot type DMan is what we need for Chabot and I somewhat agree, if not St.Louis, maybe another team?

 

[Multigrain]

I think Duchene would be really interested in the team chemistry anywhere ( if it ends up being his choice) After having to deal with his demand for a trade in Colorado, then ending up in Ottawa where he wanted to be and then the ownership issues and Karlsson trade I wonder what teams out there have the ability to get to the cup. a solid ownership group and the money he wants.

 

[Clayonator]

I think there’s an argument to be made that Stone and Duchene both show signs of decline during their next contracts. With that being said, I think it’s important to have them around for guys like Tkachuk, White, Brown, Chlapik, Formenton, Balcers, Norris etc as the torch will need to be passed at a certain point and I think there’s a higher chance of said young guns succeeding long term playing with two elite established talents up front. A guy like Dzingel I think we need to cash in on trade wise. I do not want to pay him what he’ll make in free agency. No way. We aren’t built for it unfortunately. Ceci we need to move before all value of his evaporates. Like now. Tierney is an interesting case because if we sign Duchene we could very well operate from a position of strength and move him for a Winger/Defenceman. If Duchene goes then all of a sudden he becomes essential. Lots of variables in play.

 

[DJB]

is 4.75M * 7 fair for Dzingel?

Sure it is. But hopefully he earns that for another team other than the Sens.