Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread XXII

[sampollock]

If Petry gets traded, that means the team is for sale..... not making playoffs.....

I smell a one of one trade, MB loves those gambles

 

[Adam Michaels]

I love Paul Byron. But he is someone I think can bring in a good return and would be a piece I'd be okay to move.

 

[sampollock]

I love Paul Byron. But he is someone I think can bring in a good return and would be a piece I'd be okay to move.

yup, this small must go, before he gets hurt again

 

[angry pirate]

Players are assets and falling in love with them is the bane of any franchise. As a franchise, you owe nothing to a player. Weve seen that with Markov and Radulov, imagine if they got value for them instead.

1: Both probably should have been resigned, not traded.
2: The Habs finished 1st in the division.
3. Imagining the return in hindsight is fine but the mistake wasn't holding them. The mistake was not pushing all in with an abnormally weak Atlantic Side. Easily should have been a Habs/Pens conferance final.

The right side of the defense is probably the deepest in the league in prospects, Brook, Fleury, Juulsen, Harris, Romanov is a boat loads of talent and no one should be stressed about it.

Talent yes. But it hasn't shown it can do anything at the NHL level. Talent busts all the time. Trade Petry, Weber decline, and all of a sudden we need 3 of those RD to develop into top 2/4 defenders. I'm not saying there is never a time to trade Petry. But if the risk that goes with trading Petry isn't managed or mitigated, than we can easily be spinning our tires on the right side just as we are on the left.

It's great that it's deep. But zero of those prospects have shown the ability to be consistent 20+ minute NHL D-Men. Let alone the ability to carry a top pair.

Other than that, Petry is thirty one, by the time his contract is up, hell he almost Webers age... can you imagine the decline hed have? Hes extremely reliant on his skating.

Of course there is risk and of course there will be likely, maybe even expected, some decline. But the greater risk, imo, is putting that weight on our prospects and expecting that they'll be able to hold it.

Also, what kind of value are you really getting out of him? The team is the worst in the league defensively, how much lower can the team go?

I don't understand this. We know we have an abysmal left-side that needs significant improvement and we shift blame? I'm quite certain we could get a whole lot worse. That barrel goes deep.

 

[Mrb1p]

1: Both probably should have been resigned, not traded.
2: The Habs finished 1st in the division.
3. Imagining the return in hindsight is fine but the mistake wasn't holding them. The mistake was not pushing all in with an abnormally weak Atlantic Side. Easily should have been a Habs/Pens conferance final.



Talent yes. But it hasn't shown it can do anything at the NHL level. Talent busts all the time. Trade Petry, Weber decline, and all of a sudden we need 3 of those RD to develop into top 2/4 defenders. I'm not saying there is never a time to trade Petry. But if the risk that goes with trading Petry isn't managed or mitigated, than we can easily be spinning our tires on the right side just as we are on the left.

It's great that it's deep. But zero of those prospects have shown the ability to be consistent 20+ minute NHL D-Men. Let alone the ability to carry a top pair.



Of course there is risk and of course there will be likely, maybe even expected, some decline. But the greater risk, imo, is putting that weight on our prospects and expecting that they'll be able to hold it.



I don't understand this. We know we have an abysmal left-side that needs significant improvement and we shift blame? I'm quite certain we could get a whole lot worse. That barrel goes deep.

Its impossible to be worst than the worst in the league defensively.

Nobody said to trade both Weber and Petry, Id trade Petry for a kings ransom and keep Weber.

 

[The Fisherman]

Its impossible to be worst than the worst in the league defensively.

Nobody said to trade both Weber and Petry, Id trade Petry for a kings ransom and keep Weber.

I personally wouldn't trade either. I don't expect the wheels to fall off Petry in the coming years. He's such an effortless skater....he could lose a step and still be a top3. I think we need to have someone in place from within before I'd move him.....unless someone really overpays. Weber is the leader of the team, I think he's around for at least 2 years after this year. At that point his contract could easily be bought out. Unlike many, I'm not worried about his contract at all. In fact his contract is much more a concern for Nashville than it is for us.

 

[The Fisherman]

Its impossible to be worst than the worst in the league defensively.

Nobody said to trade both Weber and Petry, Id trade Petry for a kings ransom and keep Weber.

I would trade Byron ASAP though

 

[Draft]

What's the return on Byron though?

I have s hard time seeing us get any more than a #5/#6 defenceman or middle-6 winger for him. Maybe a 2nd+ or an equivalent prospect.

Is that worth it or would he bring back more?

 

[angry pirate]

Its impossible to be worst than the worst in the league defensively.

Nobody said to trade both Weber and Petry, Id trade Petry for a kings ransom and keep Weber.

Sure as far as the rankings go. Doesn't mean the product on the ice couldn't get a whole lot worse.

Don't have to trade both for problems to arise. Weber's a 2nd pair defender now, and that's likely best case scenario for a team looking to compete. He's 4 years older than Petry, and while his reliance on positioning and strength is a plus, injuries will continue to be a concern. Envisioning him missing time or being less effective 3/4 years from now isn't that difficult. It's nice to imagine what we'd get for Petry. But if it's not a reverse Subban where we are getting a 26 year old RD in return, I have a hard time believing it'll be worth the risk.

Because then instead of hoping your prospects develop, improving your team, and making Petry more expendable, You're desperate for them to develop so you can have some kind of semblance of an NHL defense.

 

[Mrb1p]

I personally wouldn't trade either. I don't expect the wheels to fall off Petry in the coming years. He's such an effortless skater....he could lose a step and still be a top3. I think we need to have someone in place from within before I'd move him.....unless someone really overpays. Weber is the leader of the team, I think he's around for at least 2 years after this year. At that point his contract could easily be bought out. Unlike many, I'm not worried about his contract at all. In fact his contract is much more a concern for Nashville than it is for us.

Petry is going to want a pay raise and the contract could be disgusting for the Habs. Weber's contract creates no problem, hes going to retire before its up and hes going to have a lesser caphit than what Petrys going to sign for. Signing Petry to an eight million deal for four to five years at 33 is a really really bad idea. I dont know how anyone can defend that.

 

[Mrb1p]

Sure as far as the rankings go. Doesn't mean the product on the ice couldn't get a whole lot worse.

Don't have to trade both for problems to arise. Weber's a 2nd pair defender now, and that's likely best case scenario for a team looking to compete. He's 4 years older than Petry, and while his reliance on positioning and strength is a plus, injuries will continue to be a concern. Envisioning him missing time or being less effective 3/4 years from now isn't that difficult. It's nice to imagine what we'd get for Petry. But if it's not a reverse Subban where we are getting a 26 year old RD in return, I have a hard time believing it'll be worth the risk.

Because then instead of hoping your prospects develop, improving your team, and making Petry more expendable, You're desperate for them to develop so you can have some kind of semblance of an NHL defense.

Obviously Webers going to get gradually worse, every body knows that. You have to expect Brook, Juulsen and Fleury to get better gradually though.

The team made something similar with Danault when Desharnais and Plekanec slowed down, now the teams better for it.

Pacioretty was the same kind of deal too. There was no one at LW when Bergevin traded him. The Habs best winger was Byron, Drouin was a center, Lekhonen was coming off a 18 goal season.

The team is much better for it.

The famed Rivet trade started all of this and the Habs had no one at RD back then, the team was losing and Rivet was up for a contract, they decided to move away from him, signed Brisebois and Hamrlik, let Souray walk and poof, the defense was even better.

Now imagine if they actually traded Souray too, instead of letting him walk.

 

[Milhouse40]

What's the return on Byron though?

I have s hard time seeing us get any more than a #5/#6 defenceman or middle-6 winger for him. Maybe a 2nd+ or an equivalent prospect.

Is that worth it or would he bring back more?

There was a tons of scout in the last game of Montreal but there was also a tons of scout for Laval's game.

If MB got a 2nd and a 3rd for Shaw, i don't expect the moon for Byron.
But if you attach a mid-prospect and/or a mid round pick with him , then you might attract a good NHLer.

 

[angry pirate]

Obviously Webers going to get gradually worse, every body knows that. You have to expect Brook, Juulsen and Fleury to get better gradually though.

The team made something similar with Danault when Desharnais and Plekanec slowed down, now the teams better for it.

Pacioretty was the same kind of deal too. There was no one at LW when Bergevin traded him. The Habs best winger was Byron, Drouin was a center, Lekhonen was coming off a 18 goal season.

The team is much better for it.

The famed Rivet trade started all of this and the Habs had no one at RD back then, the team was losing and Rivet was up for a contract, they decided to move away from him, signed Brisebois and Hamrlik, let Souray walk and poof, the defense was even better.

Now imagine if they actually traded Souray too, instead of letting him walk.

Pacioretty was forced. Situation was toxic. Plus they added Tatar in that trade, and had already added Domi. 2 of Drouin, Domi, Tatar were going to play LW. So the team had options.

I won't argue against trading pending UFA's. I don't know if the Habs intended to resign him or not, but I'm guessing not... Hindsight says they should have traded Sourey too considering they missed the playoffs but hindsight is easy.

What something similar did the Habs do with Danault? He put up 40 points and earned an expanded role making veterans expendable. If we have a RD go out and do that than have at it.

 

[Tighthead]

Byron's contract doesn't help his trade value. Not extending him and dealing at the TDL was always the move for him.

 

[jaffy27]

Its impossible to be worst than the worst in the league defensively.

Nobody said to trade both Weber and Petry, Id trade Petry for a kings ransom and keep Weber.

Get a bidding war going leading to trade deadline......it’s a 1st plus A prospect minimum

 

[Deebs]

Get a bidding war going leading to trade deadline......it’s a 1st plus A prospect minimum

For who?

 

[jaffy27]

For who?

The f*** I know lol

team in contention that needs a big RHD to run the PP and has good prospects I guess

 

[Mrb1p]

Get a bidding war going leading to trade deadline......it’s a 1st plus A prospect minimum

Yes, better now than when the market is saturated this summer while teams try and move assets like last time.

For who?

Teams looking for RDs are Winnipeg, Anaheim, FLA, Philly, Vegas, WSH.

Of those teams, not sure Anaheim wants to go Petry route.

If they would though, Id do Petry+ for Lindholm, but theres nothing else Id want there.

Winnipeg depends on Buff and wether they choose to wait it our or try and save face... Not sure they have what it takes to make trading Petry worthwhile, assuming Heinola is a no go.

Florida is probably the most interesting one with their 1st, Borgstrom, Noel, Gildon and Kolyanochok in the pipeline. They also have Pysyk who could fill in the third pair if you dont trust Folin.

Philly is an unlikely destination IMO, but its still worth exploring. They have really good prospects and young players.

Vegas should try and compete right now, and Petry would fit right in, but they have cap issues so Im not sure it can happen. McNabb would be a nice addition, and so would Whitecloud... their first would be in play but I doubt they move anymore prospects as theyll need the ELC money in the next two years to compete. Smith and Marchessault should also be available.

Washington should probably be in and I bet Alexeyev would be available, hed fit in really well with our group. Big LD who has 1D upside.

 

[jaffy27]

Yes, better now than when the market is saturated this summer while teams try and move assets like last time.



Teams looking for RDs are Winnipeg, Anaheim, FLA, Philly, Vegas, WSH.

Of those teams, not sure Anaheim wants to go Petry route.

If they would though, Id do Petry+ for Lindholm, but theres nothing else Id want there.

Winnipeg depends on Buff and wether they choose to wait it our or try and save face... Not sure they have what it takes to make trading Petry worthwhile, assuming Heinola is a no go.

Florida is probably the most interesting one with their 1st, Borgstrom, Noel, Gildon and Kolyanochok in the pipeline. They also have Pysyk who could fill in the third pair if you dont trust Folin.

Philly is an unlikely destination IMO, but its still worth exploring. They have really good prospects and young players.

Vegas should try and compete right now, and Petry would fit right in, but they have cap issues so Im not sure it can happen. McNabb would be a nice addition, and so would Whitecloud... their first would be in play but I doubt they move anymore prospects as theyll need the ELC money in the next two years to compete. Smith and Marchessault should also be available.

Washington should probably be in and I bet Alexeyev would be available, hed fit in really well with our group. Big LD who has 1D upside.

Holy f*** that was McKenzie worth breakdown......there’s a spot for you on Thats Hockey my friend lol

from Anaheim I want Lindholm and nobody else

from Florida Borgstrom and Kolyonochok

from Vegas I want Tuch

Philly I don’t know and I doubt he waived his NTC (modified) for Winnipeg

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Unless for an upgrade, there is no point in trading Byron right now.
We don't need the cap space and we just become a weaker team with him gone.

Trade him or Lehkonen next summer to make room for Caufield.
His value shouldn't get any worse between now and the summer.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Unless for an upgrade, there is no point in trading Byron right now.
We don't need the cap space and we just become a weaker team with him gone.

Trade him or Lehkonen next summer to make room for Caufield.
His value shouldn't get any worse between now and the summer.

the guy is pretty much just a 4th liner right now, Habs could do without...

 

[DAChampion]

1: Both probably should have been resigned, not traded.
2: The Habs finished 1st in the division.
3. Imagining the return in hindsight is fine but the mistake wasn't holding them. The mistake was not pushing all in with an abnormally weak Atlantic Side. Easily should have been a Habs/Pens conferance final.



Talent yes. But it hasn't shown it can do anything at the NHL level. Talent busts all the time. Trade Petry, Weber decline, and all of a sudden we need 3 of those RD to develop into top 2/4 defenders. I'm not saying there is never a time to trade Petry. But if the risk that goes with trading Petry isn't managed or mitigated, than we can easily be spinning our tires on the right side just as we are on the left.

It's great that it's deep. But zero of those prospects have shown the ability to be consistent 20+ minute NHL D-Men. Let alone the ability to carry a top pair.



Of course there is risk and of course there will be likely, maybe even expected, some decline. But the greater risk, imo, is putting that weight on our prospects and expecting that they'll be able to hold it.



I don't understand this. We know we have an abysmal left-side that needs significant improvement and we shift blame? I'm quite certain we could get a whole lot worse. That barrel goes deep.

The Habs Cup window, according to Molson, is 2023-2028.

It's true that none of Romanov, Brook, etc have demonstrated that they'll be great players in that period.

But neither has Petry.

 

[Mrb1p]

Holy **** that was McKenzie worth breakdown......there’s a spot for you on Thats Hockey my friend lol

from Anaheim I want Lindholm and nobody else

from Florida Borgstrom and Kolyonochok

from Vegas I want Tuch

Philly I don’t know and I doubt he waived his NTC (modified) for Winnipeg

Im sure youd love Noel, hes right in your wheel house. Gigantic player.

 

[jaffy27]

Im sure youd love Noel, hes right in your wheel house. Gigantic player.

Didn’t he play with Suzuki for Guelph?

 

[Mrb1p]

Didn’t he play with Suzuki for Guelph?

Thats Ratcliffe, another huge dude. Noel played with McShane in Oshawa. He owns one of the hardest shot outside the NHL.