Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread Part XIIV

[Habs Halifax]

You have to eventually start building around Price....that is REAL NEWS......and Bergevin has not done so ...the buffoon has continued to waste years...with no direction....and those are...FACTS.

If you want to bash Bergevin, go to the Bergevin thread. I was talking about Price's window and it's far from closing. That is fake news! People who threw him under the bus at the beginning the season should be ashamed of themselves.

We have a good mix of vets who are on the right side of 35 (most around 30 ish) and a improving young core. Then add the prospects who will be knocking on the door. There is no need to make all in moves cause we think Price's window is closing. The only one that it's closing is Weber. He's got 2-4 years left and it's hard to predict.

 

[thegoalie39]

If you want to bash Bergevin, go to the Bergevin thread. I was talking about Price's window and it's far from closing. That is fake news! People who threw him under the bus at the beginning the season should be ashamed of themselves.

We have a good mix of vets who are on the right side of 35 (most around 30 ish) and a improving young core. Then add the prospects who will be knocking on the door. There is no need to make all in moves cause we think Price's window is closing. The only one that it's closing is Weber. He's got 2-4 years left and it's hard to predict.

You are fake news....of course Price's prime window is closing.....it is not closed .....but you have 1 more wasted year by Bergevin.....Price said himself the window is closing.

 

[tazsub3]

True to some degree. I'm not desperate to trade Petry and if I do, I prefer to wait and see how good Brook and Juulsen are first. But if someone offers a solid return for Petry, we need to consider it IMO. We can't afford to bring back all of Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, and Danault after the 20/21 season. Especially if our youth keeps improving and needs raises in the next few years.

Good point, but that should be as you state considered when and only when we have the proper replacement, as of now we have prospects.

 

[tazsub3]

You are fake news....of course Price's prime window is closing.....it is not closed .....but you have 1 more wasted year by Bergevin.....Price said himself the window is closing.

Actually the wasted year was 2 years ago, not this past season, this past season was a recovery from a horrible season and it was very good and positive. Also price had to recover his form, which now he did. This is why this offseason is the most important in MB tenure and what in my opinion will either make him stay or go. The base is there, a couple of moves similar to domi and tatar at positions of need and we become a contender. A move like alzner......you know the rest

 

[26Mats]

I would love for us to sign Skinner but this Ontario boy is not looking to join the Habs where he gets several offers from various teams. I'd be shocked if Skinner choose us.

Imagine a Skinner / Domi / Shaw line? Would they ever be hard to deal with. Would be nice but doubt it happens.

You may be right. But Cammallerri was an Ontario boy. The thing is, Gainey was willing to pay top dollar - and I suspect he had credibilty with ufa's as a gm that can build a winner, given he did so in Dallas. Cammalkeri's 6 million against the 57 million cap was like 8.7 million as a percentage of the current 83 million cap. I doubt mb would pay that much for a Cammallerri type player - and Skinner seems pretty close to that to me - small player that can snipe...

After watching the 3rd and OT last night, I think Nyquist would be a solid pickup. He was all over the ice - and quietly had 60 points this year.

Tatar Danault Gallagher
Skinner Domi Shaw
Drouin Kk Nyquist
Lehkonen Weal Armia
Thompson

Byron traded for a 2nd (4 drafts in a row with two 2nds!)

Suzuki and Poehling in Laval - but if they beat players out, more trades can be made.

 

[FF de Mars]

Trade Kessel for Danault, sign Erik Karlsson, have KK-Phoeling-Suzu for top 3C, let them learn from their mistakes, they are the future; anyway it's a young men's league if you haven't noticed.

 

[Vachon23]

Not really but the major difference is term so I agree he is worth more due to term.

Lindholm worth way much then Petry. Lindholm is a young #1 defenseman and Petry is a old #3. They are not even close

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lindholm worth way much then Petry. Lindholm is a young #1 defenseman and Petry is a old #3. They are not even close

Disagree. Both are good #2 or #3 D man. Edge goes to Lindholm in two ways (Age and term in contract). There is no major difference between performance on ice.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You may be right. But Cammallerri was an Ontario boy. The thing is, Gainey was willing to pay top dollar - and I suspect he had credibilty with ufa's as a gm that can build a winner, given he did so in Dallas. Cammalkeri's 6 million against the 57 million cap was like 8.7 million as a percentage of the current 83 million cap. I doubt mb would pay that much for a Cammallerri type player - and Skinner seems pretty close to that to me - small player that can snipe...

After watching the 3rd and OT last night, I think Nyquist would be a solid pickup. He was all over the ice - and quietly had 60 points this year.

Tatar Danault Gallagher
Skinner Domi Shaw
Drouin Kk Nyquist
Lehkonen Weal Armia
Thompson

Byron traded for a 2nd (4 drafts in a row with two 2nds!)

Suzuki and Poehling in Laval - but if they beat players out, more trades can be made.

It's true. Cammy was from Ontario and Gainey paid him so he came to Montreal. This is the exception to the rule but not the rule. I'm game for signing Skinner and I think he fits our needs but he will have options and doubt he chooses Montreal over the other teams that are offering a similar deal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good point, but that should be as you state considered when and only when we have the proper replacement, as of now we have prospects.

I'm not saying no if the Ducks want to trade the 9th OA and their 2nd for Petry at the draft. Juulsen has already shown ability to play top 4D before he got hurt this year and he is young and still improving.

I'm not shopping Petry but if a team realizes our situation at RD and want to offer a solid return for Petry. I'm making the trade. Keeping Petry don't help us win a cup in the next two seasons left in his term and I don't think we will have the cap space to keep him after his term runs out.

 

[Cookie007]

We ain't getting any top forwards this summer.. BargainBin has managed to somehow pay all his forwards under 6 million.

Drouin is our highest paying forward at 5 mill.

Pacioretty 30 goal scorer got like 4 mill
Radu got like 5-6 mill, anything more and he was shown the door.
Gallagher 30 goal scorer got 4 mill

When Domi's contract is up, and he deservedly ask for 5+ mill, he will be shown the door as well.

BargainBin only opens the wallet for defense like Karl Alzner and goalies.. like he said "you can never have too many defensemen"

 

[26Mats]

It's true. Cammy was from Ontario and Gainey paid him so he came to Montreal. This is the exception to the rule but not the rule. I'm game for signing Skinner and I think he fits our needs but he will have options and doubt he chooses Montreal over the other teams that are offering a similar deal.

I could see him choosing Montreal if Bergevin really showed he wanted him and backed it up with an offer he couldn't refuse. But I doubt Bergevin will do that, as Gainey did with Cammalleri.

In my book, Cammalleri's a little better than Skinner, so 8.7 is too much. But 5 years 7.5 million would be a good investment imo. It seems high, but that little bit extra offense would do us a world of good. Plus Skinner is still in his prime. We'd get him for ages 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32. Would be great for KK, Poehling or Domi to be able to play with someone who really knows how to finish.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good point, but that should be as you state considered when and only when we have the proper replacement, as of now we have prospects.

Juulsen is ready. Not proven in a full season yet but based on what we saw before his injury, I believe he is ready to take on a top 4D role. He was our best D man behind Petry to start the year and many don't realize this.

I still not afraid to double down on the youth movement in terms of flipping Petry for a return that further helps our youth movement. Especially by selling high on a player who is RD and is an area of strength. It's not like we are cup contenders with Petry.

Honestly though, I think Bergevin is afraid to make move like this. His job is on the line if the Habs have a set back next year and swapping Petry for picks and replacing him with a young Juulsen who is still learning might result in a set back in terms of where we finish in the standings vs this past year

 

[Habs Halifax]

I could see him choosing Montreal if Bergevin really showed he wanted him and backed it up with an offer he couldn't refuse. But I doubt Bergevin will do that, as Gainey did with Cammalleri.

In my book, Cammalleri's a little better than Skinner, so 8.7 is too much. But 5 years 7.5 million would be a good investment imo. It seems high, but that little bit extra offense would do us a world of good. Plus Skinner is still in his prime. We'd get him for ages 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32. Would be great for KK, Poehling or Domi to be able to play with someone who really knows how to finish.

Problem with UFA is you have to overpay in both term and AAV with top talent. It's reality. Some teams will stick to their guns at trying to find a fit where the deal is team friendly and works for the player. But that means the desperate GM's willing to take a gamble and overpay end up with the player in the end (most times).

What would be the max I would offer Skinner? Tough one to judge. I rather tell him we are extremely interested and ask him if he would consider Montreal (step 1). Then I tell him we will potentially match the best offer you can get and we will up the offer by giving him lots of bonus money in July. So without even telling him a number, my internal number of AAV would be $7M ish. If he circles back and wants $7.5M for 7 years, I still might do it. If you are afraid to overpay slightly, you will be left behind in the UFA sweepstakes... Example: Radulov.

I'm not afraid of going after skilled players who can skate. But going after gritty players with so so skill and so so skating is risky. Go after skill and skating and the risks of the player not working out on your roster is less risky IMO. Skinner fits. So does Duchene.

The critical thing to factor in the overall formula is trying to figure out what the cap inflation will be and what happens if we run into cap trouble in 2 or 3 seasons when the youth performs to a level where multiple players want substantial raises. If you over pay today for a UFA player, what is the back-up plan if we have a cap that does not increase like we think it will?

The one thing we have going well for us is Domi and I think players like Skinner might want to play with him. Add that we still have vets like Price, Weber, Gallagher, Petry and a top prospect pool, our situation might change for several players who might consider playing in Montreal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We ain't getting any top forwards this summer.. BargainBin has managed to somehow pay all his forwards under 6 million.

Drouin is our highest paying forward at 5 mill.

Pacioretty 30 goal scorer got like 4 mill
Radu got like 5-6 mill, anything more and he was shown the door.
Gallagher 30 goal scorer got 4 mill

When Domi's contract is up, and he deservedly ask for 5+ mill, he will be shown the door as well.

BargainBin only opens the wallet for defense like Karl Alzner and goalies.. like he said "you can never have too many defensemen"

Did you know that he signed Price for 8 years at $10.5M? . There goes your narrative out the window

Pretty sure there would be more excused to throw Bergevin under the bus if he manages to sign Duchene for $8M AAV or Skinner to $7.5M AAV. Something tells me you are not happy no matter what happens. Pessimistic approach and you are not happy until Bergevin is fired.

 

[Cookie007]

Did you know that he signed Price for 8 years at $10.5M? . There goes your narrative out the window

Pretty sure there would be more excused to throw Bergevin under the bus if he manages to sign Duchene for $8M AAV or Skinner to $7.5M AAV. Something tells me you are not happy no matter what happens. Pessimistic approach and you are not happy until Bergevin is fired.

Oh I know.. I did say forwards though.. this guy is a defense first guy, not sure if it's because he was a crappy defense man, trying to align with this defensive coach (Julien and Therrien), or he just sucks

 

[26Mats]

Problem with UFA is you have to overpay in both term and AAV with top talent. It's reality. Some teams will stick to their guns at trying to find a fit where the deal is team friendly and works for the player. But that means the desperate GM's willing to take a gamble and overpay end up with the player in the end (most times).

What would be the max I would offer Skinner? Tough one to judge. I rather tell him we are extremely interested and ask him if he would consider Montreal (step 1). Then I tell him we will potentially match the best offer you can get and we will up the offer by giving him lots of bonus money in July. So without even telling him a number, my internal number of AAV would be $7M ish. If he circles back and wants $7.5M for 7 years, I still might do it. If you are afraid to overpay slightly, you will be left behind in the UFA sweepstakes... Example: Radulov.

I'm not afraid of going after skilled players who can skate. But going after gritty players with so so skill and so so skating is risky. Go after skill and skating and the risks of the player not working out on your roster is less risky IMO. Skinner fits. So does Duchene.

The critical thing to factor in the overall formula is trying to figure out what the cap inflation will be and what happens if we run into cap trouble in 2 or 3 seasons when the youth performs to a level where multiple players want substantial raises. If you over pay today for a UFA player, what is the back-up plan if we have a cap that does not increase like we think it will?

The one thing we have going well for us is Domi and I think players like Skinner might want to play with him. Add that we still have vets like Price, Weber, Gallagher, Petry and a top prospect pool, our situation might change for several players who might consider playing in Montreal.

I agree with you that it's better to overpay for skill and skatting.

Even at the time Gainey signed Gionta and Cammallerri, the game was rougher, but they could still play in the second half of their contracts. The really bad contracts recently have been big guys that slow down: Andrew Ladd, Bickell, Ryan Cloud, Clarkson,... Parise is still going strong.

If we have the privilege of signing Anders Lee I really don't want to go past 4 years in term.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Oh I know.. I did say forwards though.. this guy is a defense first guy, not sure if it's because he was a crappy defense man, trying to align with this defensive coach (Julien and Therrien), or he just sucks

We will see. I doubt he lets Domi walk cause he wants more than $6M AAV.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree with you that it's better to overpay for skill and skatting.

Even at the time Gainey signed Gionta and Cammallerri, the game was rougher, but they could still play in the second half of their contracts. The really bad contracts recently have been big guys that slow down: Andrew Ladd, Bickell, Ryan Cloud, Clarkson,... Parise is still going strong.

If we have the privilege of signing Anders Lee I really don't want to go past 4 years in term.

We see it the same. Offer less term to less skilled players and so so skating. Alzner should of been offered 3 years max or nothing at all. 5 year offer based on a player not trending well? Horrible signing

I don't hate Bergevin but he was wrong when he said giving Alzner a 5 year term at a $4.625M AAV is not the same risks vs 5 years for Radulov at $7.5M ish. That's BS. He made a critical mistake and I am sure he has learned from it

 

[Frozenice]

Oh I know.. I did say forwards though.. this guy is a defense first guy, not sure if it's because he was a crappy defense man, trying to align with this defensive coach (Julien and Therrien), or he just sucks

Not sure I’m following your logic.

When Gainey and the Ghost were here we had Markov, Hamrlik, PK, Spacek, Gill, Wisnewski and Gorges . Our defense has declined in both % of cap and ability and by a lot under MB.

Maybe the coaches emphasize defense because we’re not that talented.

 

[Scriptor]

Trade Kessel for Danault, sign Erik Karlsson, have KK-Phoeling-Suzu for top 3C, let them learn from their mistakes, they are the future; anyway it's a young men's league if you haven't noticed.

Yeah, we noticed how badly EDM did while not developing their prospects properly at the NHL level with a bad secondary cast of veterans instead of in the AHL in some cases.

 

[26Mats]

McGuire and Melnik on tsn690 now saying Erik Karlsson is not close to 100%, that's why he looks slower.

Yet still, he put up 9 assists in the series- and only 2 other dmen in the history of the NHL have done that.

I think he's staying in SJ, but if you look into his injury and it looks like something he'll eventually recover from, I roll the dice and offer him serious coin. I could see him being like Markov when he eventually gets over his injuries.

 

[FF de Mars]

Yeah, we noticed how badly EDM did while not developing their prospects properly at the NHL level with a bad secondary cast of veterans instead of in the AHL in some cases.

Edmonton is not a good comparable, they didn't have vets at top positions nor a defense system to work within.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

We should trade for Dmitry Orlov

 

[smirob]

I wonder if we could swing a deal for Kapanen - leafs could use a young RHD. Kapanen would fit right in with our speed and youth imho and leafs will be hard pressed to resign him.

We have enough RHD depth, so I would do it.

A deal around Juulsen and Kapanen?