Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread 49

[Habs Halifax]

idk whats up with the Kopitar obsession but MB will never trade the top prospects it would take to acquire him,he refused Poehling for ROR who was much younger and better so no way he trades KK or a top 10 pick for a 10mill declining center let alone both,that would be such a horrible trade that would hunt us for years

Kopitar is not in massive decline. Deal was with retention down to $7M as well. You don't have to agree but at least get the details right. The points below is likely what you are thinking...

1) Let Lafreniere grow with young centers like Suzuki and KK and if they get targeted, so what. We are a rebuilding team right?

2) Who cares about Price, Weber and other vets. We will be much better in 3 or 4+ years when all the vets are gone and our prospect pool turns us into the next Lightning. All our vets are going to decline very fast here soon.

3) Kotkaniemi will be a 1C for sure and Kopitar will decline like Gomez.

 

[Rico Suave]

Kopitar is not in massive decline. Deal was with retention down to $7M as well. You don't have to agree but at least get the details right. The points below is likely what you are thinking...

1) Let Lafreniere grow with young centers like Suzuki and KK and if they get targeted, so what. We are a rebuilding team right?

2) Who cares about Price, Weber and other vets. We will be much better in 3 or 4+ years when all the vets are gone and our prospect pool turns us into the next Lightning. All our vets are going to decline very fast here soon.

3) Kotkaniemi will be a 1C for sure and Kopitar will decline like Gomez.

so wait you think the Kings would retain 3mill for 4 years....lol and stop with your Price/Weber window,you act like its Crosby and Malkin,we're not doing shit with both of them,look around the league do u really think we're going anywhere by adding Kopitar nothing against Carey or Shea their both still good players but not enough to carry us anywhere we're a lottery team with them adding Kopitar wont change much

 

[Kwikwi]

so wait you think the Kings would retain 3mill for 4 years....lol and stop with your Price/Weber window,you act like its Crosby and Malkin,we're not doing shit with both of them,look around the league do u really think we're going anywhere by adding Kopitar nothing against Carey or Shea their both still good players but not enough to carry us anywhere we're a lottery team with them adding Kopitar wont change much

So to summarize your post
Dont post anything on the boards, stop trying, we will suck anyway. Sweet, fun.

 

[Rico Suave]

So to summarize your post
Dont post anything on the boards, stop trying, we will suck anyway. Sweet, fun.

we suck now but it doesnt mean you morgage the future by making horrible trades

 

[Habs Halifax]

so wait you think the Kings would retain 3mill for 4 years....lol and stop with your Price/Weber window,you act like its Crosby and Malkin,we're not doing shit with both of them,look around the league do u really think we're going anywhere by adding Kopitar nothing against Carey or Shea their both still good players but not enough to carry us anywhere we're a lottery team with them adding Kopitar wont change much

If they don't want to retain and/or Kopitar don't waive, you don't do it. The point is you call to inquire and no, we are not taking Kopitar at full cap hit when he is a 60-80 pts center now vs who he was in his prime. Kopitar is just one example.

Not acting like Price, Weber and other vets are like Crosby and Malkin. I'm saying that we can have a roster with vets and very good young players and to create a better balanced team to try to win in the 4 year span... if we get Lafreniere. Stop pretending that our team in 4+ years will be better without our vets. Best strategy is Blues or Bruins, not the Sabres or Coyotes.

Remember this. If we get Lafreniere, there will be talk about how we can shelter him and playing him with young centers learning on the job might not be what you think it is. If we were a 100% rebuilding team, you might have a point and I would agree with it but we are not a 100% rebuilding team though.

 

[le_sean]

So it's all a pipe dream then. LA have zero incentive to trade Kopitar let alone trade and retain his salary. You should focus on attainable players.

 

[Big Empty]

Kotka is not getting traded.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So it's all a pipe dream then. LA have zero incentive to trade Kopitar let alone trade and retain his salary. You should focus on attainable players.

Kopitar is more attainable than Eichel

 

[Habs Halifax]

Kotka is not getting traded.

Very, Very, Very high chance we don't trade Kotkaniemi. Very much interested to see him play against the Pens after he had rest and looks more energized. The point of Kopitar was about Lafreniere and trying to win in the 4 year span with a good mix of vets and youth. I'm a big fan of Kotkaniemi but not going to lie... he could be a 1C, 2C, or 3C. It's way to hard to determine right now.

 

[Omar]

Very, Very, Very high chance we don't trade Kotkaniemi. Very much interested to see him play against the Pens after he had rest and looks more energized. The point of Kopitar was about Lafreniere and trying to win in the 4 year span with a good mix of vets and youth. I'm a big fan of Kotkaniemi but not going to lie... he could be a 1C, 2C, or 3C. It's way to hard to determine right now.

I think you may be in denial man. We ARE rebuilding. Just because Bergevin uses the word reset, doesn't make it untrue. We are in a rebuild. A rebuild is a massive shift in the core of a team. We moved on from Pacioretty and Galchenyuk, and to a degree Subban, to a younger group revolving around the kids. Price, Weber and Gallagher have remained in the core, and you can do a rebuild without torching the whole team. Just see the Rangers with Lundqvist and Kreider, Chicago with Kane and Toews.

The reason we've kept Price and Weber is Bergevin's hoping the young kids come around fast enough to be able to compete with those two vets. He's specifically said that he's not dealing young players to win now, if that's not rebuilding I don't know what is. He's not urgently trying to compete, he's letting the kids take their time. Therefore, your massive proposals for guys like Kopitar just aren't going to happen in real life.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think you may be in denial man. We ARE rebuilding. Just because Bergevin uses the word reset, doesn't make it untrue. We are in a rebuild. A rebuild is a massive shift in the core of a team. We moved on from Pacioretty and Galchenyuk, and to a degree Subban, to a younger group revolving around the kids. Price, Weber and Gallagher have remained in the core, and you can do a rebuild without torching the whole team. Just see the Rangers with Lundqvist and Kreider, Chicago with Kane and Toews.

The reason we've kept Price and Weber is Bergevin's hoping the young kids come around fast enough to be able to compete with those two vets. He's specifically said that he's not dealing young players to win now, if that's not rebuilding I don't know what is. He's not urgently trying to compete, he's letting the kids take their time. Therefore, your massive proposals for guys like Kopitar just aren't going to happen in real life.

We are not 100% rebuilding. We are in reset/retool stage of trying to keep our vets and filling holes with kids. We are not the Sens where you can just put them out there and live with mistakes.

If we were a rebuilding team... Tatar and Petry would have been moved at the deadline for futures only. Patch was traded for a current roster player and futures cause he asked for a trade (like it or not).

Bergevin is not ignoring Price, Weber, and others like Gallagher, Petry, Tatar cause we have a top 5 prospect pool. You can make fun or critize that strategy all you want but you have to consider that if you trade all those guys, you might not like where we stand in 4 years when we are stuck in no mans land like the Sabres, Coyotes, and Blue Jackets. Every road you want us to take has risk/rewards in terms of strategy.

Believe it or not, we have the Bruins or Blues strategy. It may or may not work but I don't believe we should be drooling over selling all vets for futures. We have one of the best 5/5 teams in the NHL and if we can improve our team D and size up front where our centers mature quickly, the results will be much different than what you have seen in recent seasons.

 

[CHfan1]

Kopitar is more attainable than Eichel

Well at least he’s a lot better than Getzlaf who has started his decline in his 33 and 34 year old seasons.

Anyways none of those centres are attainable anyways either because they have NTC/NMC or because I don’t see an elite ppg centre getting traded.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well at least he’s a lot better than Getzlaf who has started his decline in his 33 and 34 year old seasons.

Anyways none of those centres are attainable anyways either because they have NTC/NMC or because I don’t see an elite ppg centre getting traded.

I'd take Getzlaf for one year and possibly give him a 1 year extension if he likes it in Montreal. But the price to acquire is not the same as Kopitar though.

Dam straight I would play Kotkaniemi in the AHL and Getzlaf with Lafreniere in year one of his ELC.

Lafreniere / Getzlaf / Drouin
Tatar / Danault / Gallagher
Kovalchuk / Suzuki / Armia
Byron / Evans / Lehkonen
Weal

* Domi for Brodin with extension
* Kotkaniemi in the AHL for one more year
* 2021 1st (top 3 protection) and I might include Poehling. Maybe it's a good way to unload Byron's cap hit or even Alzner? You don't know until you ask and talk about it.

Chiarot or Romanov / Weber
Brodin / Petry
Chiarot or Romanov / Juulsen or Fleury or Brook
Kulak, Mete

Price

I value having someone who can shelter/mentor Lafreniere a lot as you can see. Kotkaniemi and Suzuki can't fill that role and I would make moves to win in the short term cause our vets are not horrible players.

 

[CHfan1]

I'd take Getzlaf for one year and possibly give him a 1 year extension if he likes it in Montreal. But the price to acquire is not the same as Kopitar though

It better not be.

Getzlaf last few seasons has gone down:

32: 1.09 ppg
33: 0.72 ppg
34 (this season): 0.61 ppg, on pace for 50 points.

Good chance Suzuki has more points than him next season.

Anyways NTC can’t be ignored so the Habs are not getting either of those players.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It better not be.

Getzlaf last few seasons has gone down:

32: 1.09 ppg
33: 0.72 ppg
34 (this season): 0.61 ppg, on pace for 50 points.

Good chance Suzuki has more points than him next season.

Anyways NTC can’t be ignored so the Habs are not getting either of those players.

If you acquire Getzlaf, it's not all about points. It's about a physical presence and someone who can help shelter/mentor Lafreniere. Someone who can take critical face offs and draw attention. Getzlaf would be like our E Staal when he went from the Canes to the Wild.

Sorry but penciling in Kotkaniemi or Suzuki to play with Lafreniere and having the rebuild strategy where you allow them to learn on the job is a rebuild strategy where you ignore the vets we have right now. Our vets don't suck bud and they deserve more respect than that. Lafreniere deserves more respect than that too.

Imagine a savy vet like Getzlaf being a force up the middle while Lafreniere and Drouin do their thing where they know they got a guy that will be committed to the 200' game and also stand up for them in the physical department?

I think you understand my approach. You don't have to agree with it but I'm not going to play Lafreniere with young centers.

 

[CHfan1]

If you acquire Getzlaf, it's not all about points. It's about a physical presence and someone who can help shelter/mentor Lafreniere. Someone who can take critical face offs and draw attention. Getzlaf would be like our E Staal when he went from the Canes to the Wild.

Staal was a few years younger when he first went to the Wild than Getzlaf is now.

I would hope the Habs wouldn’t give up significant assets to acquire 1-2 seasons of Getzlaf.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Staal was a few years younger when he first went to the Wild than Getzlaf is now.

I would hope the Habs wouldn’t give up significant assets to acquire 1-2 seasons of Getzlaf.

Sure, but there is no locked in linear decline scale. Getzlaf is not Gomez and I think he has declined to some degree but I also think his production has taken a hit due to the Ducks depth up front. Kind of like what E Stall had in Carolina.

I'm not expecting Getzlaf to be the guy he was in his 20's. I'm expecting him to be a trusted physical force who can help mentor/shelter Lafreniere while he puts up 60 pts +/-.

If you look at all those 4 lines (especially the top 3) and you were the other team's coach... good luck with match-ups cause if you shut down two lines, the other will burn you.

 

[Omar]

We are not 100% rebuilding. We are in reset/retool stage of trying to keep our vets and filling holes with kids. We are not the Sens where you can just put them out there and live with mistakes.

If we were a rebuilding team... Tatar and Petry would have been moved at the deadline for futures only. Patch was traded for a current roster player and futures cause he asked for a trade (like it or not).

Bergevin is not ignoring Price, Weber, and others like Gallagher, Petry, Tatar cause we have a top 5 prospect pool. You can make fun or critize that strategy all you want but you have to consider that if you trade all those guys, you might not like where we stand in 4 years when we are stuck in no mans land like the Sabres, Coyotes, and Blue Jackets. Every road you want us to take has risk/rewards in terms of strategy.

Believe it or not, we have the Bruins or Blues strategy. It may or may not work but I don't believe we should be drooling over selling all vets for futures. We have one of the best 5/5 teams in the NHL and if we can improve our team D and size up front where our centers mature quickly, the results will be much different than what you have seen in recent seasons.

Like I said, the only difference between reset and rebuild is semantics. You can rebuild while keeping vets. Some people want to trade more of the vets, others less. But it's still a rebuild, regardless of what word you use.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Like I said, the only difference between reset and rebuild is semantics. You can rebuild while keeping vets. Some people want to trade more of the vets, others less. But it's still a rebuild, regardless of what word you use.

Rebuild/Reset/Retool... yes it's semantics.

But I'm not afraid to add to what we have using a part of our futures if we get Lafreniere. Heck, I'd be open to trading our 9th pick for Brodin with extension. Call me crazy but a top 5 prospect pool can be used in several ways.

If the Habs are not careful and think futures too much... we might not like where we stand in 4+ years. Bookmark it.

 

[CHfan1]

Sure, but there is no locked in linear decline scale. Getzlaf is not Gomez and I think he has declined to some degree but I also think his production has taken a hit due to the Ducks depth up front. Kind of like what E Stall had in Carolina.

Of course there isn’t a locked in decline scale but based off historical data we know forwards decline when they are in their mid thirties.

Brander's team also found that forwards:

• Improve more quickly than they decline and typically begin "a significant decline in their early 30s."
• Perform within 90 per cent of their peak from 24 to 32 years old.
• 25 is their most common age, with 24-27 very similar.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2646054

And I know Getzlaf isn’t Gomez but is he similar to a player like Corey Perry?

If the Habs did acquire him he’d be at best a short term rental. Unless they are contenders next season at the deadline I wouldn’t trade for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Of course there isn’t a locked in decline scale but based off historical data we know forwards decline when they are in their mid thirties.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2646054

And I know Getzlaf isn’t Gomez but is he similar to a player like Corey Perry?

If the Habs did acquire him he’d be at best a short term rental. Unless they are contenders next season at the deadline I wouldn’t trade for him.

I hope we get Lafreniere and then we can heat up this conversation even more . Another guy could be Toews. I'm on a roll eh? .

Send them Alzner or make them retain down to $7M. Toews has 3 years left from age 31-33. See what they ask for. I'm not afraid of trading part of our futures if the roster we put together is balanced and we can try to win in the next 3-5 years. My plan is not to ignore the next 4 years cause we think our vets are not good enough and the prospect pool will result in a contender in 4+ years without our vets with us... especially if we get Lafreniere. I would certainly try to win in the short team and if that don't work, we didn't rip apart our futures greatly.

Habs fans are a bit guilty of looking into the future too much IMO. It might not turn into what some think and most of you know how much I like the improvements we made in our prospect pool. A total rebuild ignoring the current players is risky

 

[CHfan1]

I hope we get Lafreniere and then we can heat up this conversation even more

I hope so too. But, like I stated before, even if they do the Habs won’t get a player who has NTC/NMC and I don’t see them being able to trade for an elite ppg centre in their prime.

So even if the Habs get Lafrenière the best option is still probably the status quo at centre.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I hope so too. But, like I stated before, even if they do the Habs won’t get a player who has NTC/NMC and I don’t see them being able to trade for an elite ppg centre in their prime.

So even if the Habs get Lafrenière the best option is still probably the status quo at centre.

Never pretended it would be easy and I did say Kotkaniemi and a 2021 1st for Kopitar with retention. I know how big of a pill that is to swallow.... especially if Kotkaniemi turns into a 1C. But pretending Kopitar will fall flat on his face while Kotkaniemi rockets up to 1C is a massive stretch. I'm sure others will throw it in my face later in 4 years when we can look back. It could be a genius move or a dumb move. But the insurance of having Suzuki and Danault and others like Poehling, Evans, Hillis up the middle is solid.

The overall point is Lafreniere needs a more physical and mature center. You have to try and make phone calls. If there is no deal, you don't get desperate. But guys like Kopitar, Toews, Getzlaf are the types I would certainly knock on the door with. Kopitar from 33-36 is not bad value if you can get him for $7M. And yes, it might be a quick phone call. I realize that.

I'm not desperate to move Kotkaniemi at all. If you can do it with two 1st (21 and 22) with lottery protection and maybe Poehling? Point is you try and knock on the door. Some guys like Suzuki and Romanov are untouchable to me. Kotkaniemi and Caufield are almost untouchable

 

[1909]

I hope Bergevin will trade some of his 2nd rounders for a late 1st rounder that they really like and want.

 

[Omar]

Rebuild/Reset/Retool... yes it's semantics.

But I'm not afraid to add to what we have using a part of our futures if we get Lafreniere. Heck, I'd be open to trading our 9th pick for Brodin with extension. Call me crazy but a top 5 prospect pool can be used in several ways.

If the Habs are not careful and think futures too much... we might not like where we stand in 4+ years. Bookmark it.

That’s fine that you think that way but Bergevin has said he won’t deal futures so that’s that.