Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread 49

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Habs Halifax

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That’s fine that you think that way but Bergevin has said he won’t deal futures so that’s that.

Bergevin said he won't trade futures for rentals and I support that. But things might change if we get Lafreniere. I do think Lafreniere deserves a more mature and physical center. So maybe, if the Ducks and Getzlaf are open to it, we trade 2021 1st (lottery protection), Poehling, and Mete for Getzlaf with a 1 or 2 year extension but they retain on his last season at 35. Age 35-36/37 is not terrible when you need a mature/physical guy like that and Kotkaniemi is not ready to take on that 1C role. Neither is Suzuki.

It might result in deep playoff runs or even a cup in that 3 year span. At least we can say we tried in the Price/Weber window. I'm not a fan of ignoring our current vets cause we think our roster in 4+ years will be a contender. It don't work that way more often than not and I do think it's treating our current vets with disrespect. I think we have to consider that we might look back in 4+ years with regrets if we are too conservative

I would be happy if we were able to get Lafreniere/Getzlaf added to our mix of youth and vets. And if it cost us a 21 draft dart that is not a lottery pick and young players like Poehling and Mete. I would consider that for sure.
 

Habs Halifax

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I hope Bergevin will trade some of his 2nd rounders for a late 1st rounder that they really like and want.

Depends on how high they are on someone. But in this draft I see one big waive of talent from 15 to 40-50 range. Depending on who you ask... a guy like Lapierre could go 15 or 45. Same as Barron. It might be smart to sit back and take the best available from our draft board with both those early 2nd's. I would consider trading the Blues 2nd+ for Dunn if the Blues wanted to move Dunn.

Is there a guy like Romanov that they really like? If so, make a trade. If not, don't make a deal for the sake of it cause we think we are getting a better player at 25 vs 39. I expect a lot of surprises in this draft... both when some prospects are taken and trades due to teams trying to move salary
 

CHfan1

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Bergevin said he won't trade futures for rentals and I support that. But things might change if we get Lafreniere. I do think Lafreniere deserves a more mature and physical center. So maybe, if the Ducks and Getzlaf are open to it, we trade 2021 1st (lottery protection), Poehling, and Mete for Getzlaf with a 1 or 2 year extension but they retain on his last season at 35. Age 35-36/37 is not terrible when you need a mature/physical guy like that and Kotkaniemi is not ready to take on that 1C role. Neither is Suzuki.

It might result in deep playoff runs or even a cup in that 3 year span. At least we can say we tried in the Price/Weber window. I'm not a fan of ignoring our current vets cause we think our roster in 4+ years will be a contender. It don't work that way more often than not and I do think it's treating our current vets with disrespect. I think we have to consider that we might look back in 4+ years with regrets if we are too conservative

I would be happy if we were able to get Lafreniere/Getzlaf added to our mix of youth and vets. And if it cost us a 21 draft dart that is not a lottery pick and young players like Poehling and Mete. I would consider that for sure.

I still don’t get why a player who has spent his entire career in California, who now has a family in California, would waive their NTC to come to Montreal.
 

Habs Halifax

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I still don’t get why a player who has spent his entire career in California, who now has a family in California, would waive their NTC to come to Montreal.

You don't know until you ask. All you are saying is probability of getting Kopitar, Getzlaf, or Toews is low. Sure, it appears that way. But you don't know and coming to play with Lafreniere and being part of a Price/Weber core? I would not underestimate that.

It's very possible we are humbled and have no choice but to be patient. Then you might have to move Lafreniere to Tatar's spot. Would they play Lafreniere with either Suzuki or KK? Not sure. If they do, they better find a RW who can be a physical force. Armia?

Kopitar, Getzlaf, or Toews are easier to acquire vs Eichel. You might fail on all 4 when you call. But the narrative you are presenting is why bother make the call? Seriously?
 

CHfan1

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You don't know until you ask. All you are saying is probability of getting Kopitar, Getzlaf, or Toews is low. Sure, it appears that way. But you don't know and coming to play with Lafreniere and being part of a Price/Weber core? I would not underestimate that.

It's very possible we are humbled and have no choice but to be patient. Then you might have to move Lafreniere to Tatar's spot. Would they play Lafreniere with either Suzuki or KK? Not sure. If they do, they better find a RW who can be a physical force. Armia?

Kopitar, Getzlaf, or Toews are easier to acquire vs Eichel. You might fail on all 4 when you call. But the narrative you are presenting is why bother make the call? Seriously?

You overestimate Price and Weber. That core (Price/Weber) hasn’t won a single playoff series. And Lafrenière isn’t going to be the game changer from day one you think he is. I’d also be beyond shocked if any of those players waived their NTC to leave behind the team they’ve known all their lives and their family to come to Montreal.

And I’m not saying not to call but if the price for a retained Kopitar is Kotkaniemi and a 1st, no thanks. For a year or two of Getzlaf is a 1st, Mete, and Poehling, no thanks (that might be different if the Habs actually showed they were contenders now). And I’m not even sure what you’d give up for Toews and his $10.5 million salary.

Anyways we’re clearly at an impasse, let’s wait and hope the Habs get Lafrenière first.
 
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Habs Halifax

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You overestimate Price and Weber. That core (Price/Weber) hasn’t won a single playoff series. And Lafrenière isn’t going to be the game changer from day one you think he is. I’d also be beyond shocked if any of those players waived their NTC to leave behind the team they’ve known all their lives and their family to come to Montreal.

And I’m not saying not to call but if the price for a retained Kopitar is Kotkaniemi and a 1st, no thanks. For a year or two of Getzlaf is a 1st, Mete, and Poehling, no thanks (that might be different if the Habs actually showed they were contenders now). And I’m not even sure what you’d give up for Toews and his $10.5 million salary.

Anyways we’re clearly at an impasse, let’s wait and hope the Habs get Lafrenière first.

I am not overestimating Price and Weber. Not one bit. I'm also including Gallagher, Tatar, Petry as vets. You want to build you team full of players 30 and under cause you think all players decline like Gomez in their 30's, go right ahead. Price will be a top 5 goalie for more longer than you think. Weber (aside from injuries), has shown zero signs of decline and he's going to be fine from 35-37. Just like Giordano ;)

The best strategy is very good young players filling in holes with a mix of vets. You focus on the 4+ years and ignore our vets all you want. You are not the only one following that heard of sheep
 

le_sean

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Price isn't even a Top 5 goalie today, how will he be one in 2-3 years?
 

CHfan1

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I am not overestimating Price and Weber. Not one bit. I'm also including Gallagher, Tatar, Petry as vets. You want to build you team full of players 30 and under cause you think all players decline like Gomez in their 30's, go right ahead. Price will be a top 5 goalie for more longer than you think. Weber (aside from injuries), has shown zero signs of decline and he's going to be fine from 35-37. Just like Giordano ;)

The best strategy is very good young players filling in holes with a mix of vets. You focus on the 4+ years and ignore our vets all you want. You are not the only one following that heard of sheep


I’m not ignoring them I’m being realistic. Those vets haven’t shown they are good enough to win a single playoff series as a core now why would they all of sudden become Cup contenders when they get older.

I’ve stated it before grow the young players and in 3-4 years they could be contenders with guys like Weber, Tatar, Gallagher being complimentary pieces and not the best players on the team.

But go ahead sell the future for a 2-3 year possible run, trying to compete with Boston, Tampa, and building 35% of the Habs salary cap structure around guys that’ll be 35+ in a couple of years.
 

Cold Coffee

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Kotka, Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Norlinder and Primeau aren’t moving. We shouldn’t be trading our young players at all.
 

Habs Halifax

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I’m not ignoring them I’m being realistic. Those vets haven’t shown they are good enough to win a single playoff series as a core now why would they all of sudden become Cup contenders when they get older.

I’ve stated it before grow the young players and in 3-4 years they could be contenders with guys like Weber, Tatar, Gallagher being complimentary pieces and not the best players on the team.

But go ahead sell the future for a 2-3 year possible run, trying to compete with Boston, Tampa, and building 35% of the Habs salary cap structure around guys that’ll be 35+ in a couple of years.

Those vets need the kids to fill holes. That's the issue cause the kids from 08-15 busted. Don't blame the vets cause the drafting from 08-15 was horrible. Weber likely retires when his salary drops to $1M. That after his age 37 season bud. 3 more years. So you are ignoring him and only using him in a leadership role.

Tatar and Gallagher can be around for a while yet. You trading Petry right? You think Price is not team Canada's starter at the next olympics? He's going to be 34 and over the hill by then eh? :laugh:
 

Habs Halifax

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Kotka, Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Norlinder and Primeau aren’t moving. We shouldn’t be trading our young players at all.

Why don't you include Struble and Harris as well.

We shouldn't be too aggressive or too conservative is my point. It's a measure of having the right kids in the right places filling in holes and also keeping the vets around. Adding another vet that can protect/mentor/shelter Lafreniere (if we get him) is not a dumb plan

I'm not a fan of ignoring on vets 100% cause we think our top 5 prospect pool will turn into contenders in 4+ years.
 

CHfan1

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Those vets need the kids to fill holes. That's the issue cause the kids from 08-15 busted. Don't blame the vets cause the drafting from 08-15 was horrible. Weber likely retires when his salary drops to $1M. That after his age 37 season bud. 3 more years. So you are ignoring him and only using him in a leadership role.

Tatar and Gallagher can be around for a while yet. You trading Petry right? You think Price is not team Canada's starter at the next olympics? He's going to be 34 and over the hill by then eh? :laugh:


I’m not ignoring Weber. What the Habs are supposed to go all in to try and get Weber a Cup before he retires because he’s Weber? I don’t get that at all. If he’s around in a few years and can be a complimentary piece in a leadership role great.

I also never said to trade Petry, I’d give him a short term deal, 3-4 years. If he wants more I’d trade him.

I also never said Price would be over the hill. Where did I say that? He could still be a key part in a few years.

I just don’t see the point of selling good future assets for a 2-3 year magical run with a team that hasn’t won a playoff series in five years, finished 24th this season, with the hope that the Habs win a cup for Price and Weber.

BTW I’m not saying the Habs will automatically be contenders in 4 years but they have a better chance of that than selling guys like Kotkaniemi and becoming sudden contenders over night. Having a bunch of salary cap tied up in players in their early to mid thirties isn’t the right approach. Teams like Chicago and San Jose have that and their outlook isn’t very good also. Kopitar, Price, Weber, Petry, Tatar, Gallagher would cost about $44-46 million (starting in 2021-2022) taking up 52-55% of the cap for the next 3-4 seasons at least. What happens if that core starts to decline in a couple years? By the 2022 season they will be Kopitar-35, Price - 35, Weber - 37, Petry -35, Tatar - 32, Gallagher - 30.

I also have no problem trading a 2021 1st if it’s for a long term asset and not a short term rental, unless the Habs can show they are contenders mid way through next season.
 
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HOPE

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I am not overestimating Price and Weber. Not one bit. I'm also including Gallagher, Tatar, Petry as vets. You want to build you team full of players 30 and under cause you think all players decline like Gomez in their 30's, go right ahead. Price will be a top 5 goalie for more longer than you think. Weber (aside from injuries), has shown zero signs of decline and he's going to be fine from 35-37. Just like Giordano ;)

The best strategy is very good young players filling in holes with a mix of vets. You focus on the 4+ years and ignore our vets all you want. You are not the only one following that heard of sheep

exacly if Price will be a top 5 goaltender for much longer and Weber play prime till he's 37. what's the URGE to make a deal and bring even older people instead of using that core of Price/Weber/Gallagher, then younger players like Drouin, Domi, Armia, Danault to help players like Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Caufield, Poehling, Ylonen to grow.

You're the one who's way too impatient, bringing an other aging player instead of developping and making our own player graduate has been one of our problem. we are now in a position that we have a great prospect pool and a good core to bring young players in a healthy environmment. That's how you build a contender. You don't start throwing away quality future before you start doing damage.
 

Omar

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I’m not ignoring Weber. What the Habs are supposed to go all in to try and get Weber a Cup before he retires because he’s Weber? I don’t get that at all. If he’s around in a few years and can be a complimentary piece in a leadership role great.

I also never said to trade Petry, I’d give him a short term deal, 3-4 years. If he wants more I’d trade him.

I also never said Price would be the over him. Where did I say that? He could still be a key part in a few years.

I just don’t see the point of selling good future assets for a 2-3 year magical run with a team that hasn’t won a playoff series in five years, finished 24th this season, with the hope that the Habs win a cup for Price and Weber.

BTW I’m not saying the Habs will automatically be contenders in 4 years but they have a better chance of that than selling guys like Kotkaniemi and becoming sudden contenders over night. Having a bunch of salary cap tied up in players in their early to mid thirties isn’t the right approach. Teams like Chicago and San Jose have that and their outlook isn’t very good also. Kopitar, Price, Weber, Petry, Tatar, Gallagher would cost about $44-46 million (starting in 2021-2022) taking up 52-55% of the cap for the next 3-4 seasons at least. What happens if that core starts to decline in a couple years? By the 2022 season they will be Kopitar-35, Price - 35, Weber - 37, Petry -35, Tatar - 32, Gallagher - 30.

I also have no problem trading a 2021 1st if it’s for a long term asset and not a short term rental, unless the Habs can show they are contenders mid way through next season.
Getzlaf or Kopitar are not long term assets
 

the

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Rebuild/Reset/Retool... yes it's semantics.

But I'm not afraid to add to what we have using a part of our futures if we get Lafreniere. Heck, I'd be open to trading our 9th pick for Brodin with extension. Call me crazy but a top 5 prospect pool can be used in several ways.

If the Habs are not careful and think futures too much... we might not like where we stand in 4+ years. Bookmark it.

Explain to me how much worst can it get?

We are at the bottom of the barrel. It can’t get worst than where we are right now.
 
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HOPE

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I might not be against trading our 1st in 21, depending on where the team is and who is on the market, the 21 draft class looks pretty weak right now, but thing can change pretty fast!
 

SpezNc2

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Kotka, Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Norlinder and Primeau aren’t moving. We shouldn’t be trading our young players at all.

I could listen trade offers for Norlinder or Primeau but obviously would have to think hard depending of the return.

KK, Suzuki,Caufield, Romanov are not going anywhere.
 

HOPE

Goal Caufield!
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I could listen trade offers for Norlinder or Primeau but obviously would have to think hard depending of the return.

KK, Suzuki,Caufield, Romanov are not going anywhere.

Goaltender barely have any value before performing in the NHL and Norlinder is a sleeping assets that we can let develop slowly and could realy pay out. no reason to trade him before seeing how he does in his draft +2 and +3 both of them would be throw-ins at this point and not worth.
 

Omar

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Rebuild/Reset/Retool... yes it's semantics.

But I'm not afraid to add to what we have using a part of our futures if we get Lafreniere. Heck, I'd be open to trading our 9th pick for Brodin with extension. Call me crazy but a top 5 prospect pool can be used in several ways.

If the Habs are not careful and think futures too much... we might not like where we stand in 4+ years. Bookmark it.
That’s just not Bergevin’s mindset so what am I bookmarking? He will not trade young players and picks for guys like Getzlaf and Kopitar. He’s flat out said he won’t deal youth. So while you may be open to it, that’s not the way he’s going and he hasn’t shown that he would. He offer sheeted Aho rather than offering those picks for a vet, that should tell you he’s only interested in acquiring younger players.
 
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