Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread 49

[Habs Halifax]

Explain to me how much worst can it get?

We are at the bottom of the barrel. It can’t get worst than where we are right now.

Not really at the bottom of the barrel though. More mid range. Pens would not have complained to facing the Habs if we were bottom of the barrel

 

[Habs Halifax]

Price isn't even a Top 5 goalie today, how will he be one in 2-3 years?

Price's stats vs his ability. Do you think Team Canada passes over him cause of his stats or do they look at his ability? Habs team D has nothing to do with Price's stats right?

 

[Habs Halifax]

That’s just not Bergevin’s mindset so what am I bookmarking? He will not trade young players and picks for guys like Getzlaf and Kopitar. He’s flat out said he won’t deal youth. So while you may be open to it, that’s not the way he’s going and he hasn’t shown that he would. He offer sheeted Aho rather than offering those picks for a vet, that should tell you he’s only interested in acquiring younger players.

He said he won't trade futures for rentals. Of course you try to get a Aho before a guy in their 30's. And the options to improve the team from year to year will vary depending who is and who is not available.

Bergevin might do nothing or he might make a major move. I don't think he has one linear plan

 

[Habs Halifax]

Getzlaf or Kopitar are not long term assets

Kopitar for 4 years is not bad from 33-36. Not ideal but 4 years is a decent amount of time and he still skates very well and can put up 60-80 pts in that range. I get what you are saying but I don't think we have a 30 and under plan for sure. And remember, this is all about trying to find a physical center to play with Lafreniere if we get him. Of course I would like Eichel but that's not on the table at all. Getzlaf could be acquired for cheaper (if the Ducks and Getzlaf wanted to part ways) and you could sign him for a 1 year extension.

This is all about Lafreniere and trying to be a better balanced team while we still have our vets performing. Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are not ready to play 1C. If you wait for them to be a 1C and you tolerate learning on the job, you will have 2 more years or more of wasted years on Price, Weber, Gallagher, Petry, Tatar.

Are you open to using the 21 and 22 1st round picks?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Sergachev and Killorn for Mete, Lehkonen and 9th OA. Tampa opens cap and gets a top 10 pick. We get LD we've needed forever and add big body local boy who can add some grit and offence as well play up and down the lineup.

Tatar Danault Gally
Drouin Domi Suzuki
Killorn KK Armia
Byron Poehling/Evans/Weal

Sergachev Weber
Chiarot Petry
Romanov Juulsen

 

[Kwikwi]

after 50 pages of Brodin, now its Kopitar hehe

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sergachev and Killorn for Mete, Lehkonen and 9th OA. Tampa opens cap and gets a top 10 pick. We get LD we've needed forever and add big body local boy who can add some grit and offence as well play up and down the lineup.

Tatar Danault Gally
Drouin Domi Suzuki
Killorn KK Armia
Byron Poehling/Evans/Weal

Sergachev Weber
Chiarot Petry
Romanov Juulsen

- Sergachev and Killorn cap hits? Probably around $9.5M ish
- Mete and Lehkonen's cap hits? Probably around $3.5 or $4M?

Saves Tampa about $5M - $6M bringing their cap space to about $10.5M with 15 players signed. Got to sign Cirelli and Cernak and 6 depth guys. Tight but it's workable for sure.

 

[Sterling Archer]

- Sergachev and Killorn cap hits? Probably around $9.5M ish
- Mete and Lehkonen's cap hits? Probably around $3.5 or $4M?

Saves Tampa about $5M - $6M bringing their cap space to about $10.5M with 15 players signed. Got to sign Cirelli and Cernak and 6 depth guys. Tight but it's workable for sure.

Killorn is $4.5MM and Sergachev looks to get around $5.5 -$6MM, so say they shed $10MM. So savings will be closer to $7MM and they add cheaper NHL bodies as well as a top 10 pick who can likely play fo them in the next year or so for less than $1MM.

If you think they're going to clear $15MM in cap in one trade with one team, that's not going to happen. It'll be several moves with several teams. This being one I'm proposing from the Habs side.

What about this trade doesn't work for everyone involved?

 

[Kwikwi]

Killron is $4.5MM and Sergachev looks to get around $5.5 -$6MM, so say they shed $10MM. So savings will be closer to $7MM and they add cheaper NHL bodies as well as a top 10 pick who can likely play fo them in the next year or so for less than $1MM.

If you think they're going to clear $15MM in cap in one trade with one team, that's not going to happen. It'll be several moves with several teams. This being one I'm proposing from the Habs side.

What about this trade doesn't work for everyone involved?

only reason is that I think Tampa would be looking for players instead of picks. Since they want to maximize their window.

 

[le_sean]

Price's stats vs his ability. Do you think Team Canada passes over him cause of his stats or do they look at his ability? Habs team D has nothing to do with Price's stats right?

Never mentioned his stats, but they certainly don't look good for being the highest paid goalie in the league.

I don't think he's a Top 5 goalie anymore, stats or not. When you factor his salary cap hit, then I'd go even as far as saying there's at least 15 goalies I'd take before him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Killron is $4.5MM and Sergachev looks to get around $5.5 -$6MM, so say they shed $10MM. So savings will be closer to $7MM and they add cheaper NHL bodies as well as a top 10 pick who can likely play fo them in the next year or so for less than $1MM.

If you think they're going to clear $15MM in cap in one trade with one team, that's not going to happen. It'll be several moves with several teams. This being one I'm proposing from the Habs side.

What about this trade doesn't work for everyone involved?

We might sign Sergachev to a longer deal with a higher AAV but they likely try a 2 year bridge deal around $4.5M. McAvoy just signed for 3 years at $4.9M. 2 years for Sergachev might be $4.5M. So I still think the savings from their perspective is $5M - $6M range.

All I did was try to justify your idea bud and it looks like it's workable to them. We just don't see the savings the exact same

 

[Sterling Archer]

only reason is that I think Tampa would be looking for players instead of picks. Since they want to maximize their window.

That's why I tried to mix low salary useful NHLers along with a top 10 pick. All cheap, all can play and help them fill out a roster. They're tight against the cap but they still need to fill an NHL roster. Other players I'd want to trade don't work because they make too much and don't bring much more than Lehkonen and Mete, hence why I put them in over Byron, Kulak etc.

 

[SOLR]

Kopitar for 4 years is not bad from 33-36. Not ideal but 4 years is a decent amount of time and he still skates very well and can put up 60-80 pts in that range. I get what you are saying but I don't think we have a 30 and under plan for sure. And remember, this is all about trying to find a physical center to play with Lafreniere if we get him. Of course I would like Eichel but that's not on the table at all. Getzlaf could be acquired for cheaper (if the Ducks and Getzlaf wanted to part ways) and you could sign him for a 1 year extension.

This is all about Lafreniere and trying to be a better balanced team while we still have our vets performing. Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are not ready to play 1C. If you wait for them to be a 1C and you tolerate learning on the job, you will have 2 more years or more of wasted years on Price, Weber, Gallagher, Petry, Tatar.

Are you open to using the 21 and 22 1st round picks?

Honestly (and I hate to say it), Danault is a pretty good center for Lafreniere (until KK/Suzuki matures up). Lafreniere is a good replacement for Tatar. Trade Tatar immediately for another big asset on D and we are a playoff team.

Lafreniere - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Suzuki - Armia
Domi - KK - Ylonen
Byron - Poehling - Lekhonen

X - Weber
Romanov - Petry
Mete - Chiarot

Price
Primeau

If it's not obvious to anyone, our big weakness will be the RW for a while if we are fortunate enough to get Lafreniere. Armia is a bottom 6 player...Ylonen ain't ready, Lekhonen meh, Caufield need more time. So maybe you trade Domi or Drouin for a RW of the same age/potential (wondering if that's not Domi for Nylander).

Lafreniere - Suzuki - Nylander
Drouin - Danault - Gallagher
Ylonen - KK - Armia
Byron - Poehling - Lekhonen

Evolving into

Lafreniere - Suzuki - Nylander
Drouin - KK - Caufield
Ylonen - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Poehling - Lekhonen

 

[Habs Halifax]

Never mentioned his stats, but they certainly don't look good for being the highest paid goalie in the league.

I don't think he's a Top 5 goalie anymore, stats or not. When you factor his salary cap hit, then I'd go even as far as saying there's at least 15 goalies I'd take before him.

You didn't but I did. So if you think he is not a top 5 goalie and his stats are not your reason, why are you reasons? You know you are fighting the grain as to what the actual NHLPA thinks and their opinion should be of value.

If you re-set the cap for all goalies... Price would be highly sought after... even at the age of 33!

 

[Sterling Archer]

We might sign Sergachev to a longer deal with a higher AAV but they likely try a 2 year bridge deal around $4.5M. McAvoy just signed for 3 years at $4.9M. 2 years for Sergachev might be $4.5M. So I still think the savings from their perspective is $5M - $6M range.

All I did was try to justify your idea bud and it looks like it's workable to them. We just don't see the savings the exact same

Well all we can do hypothesize about future values and give a range. Also, that $4.5M does away right quick with an offer sheet, from the Habs or other team which trading makes go away completely.

End of the day, Tampa need to fill a roster and need to raise significant cap. By shedding $10MM in cap and adding a top 10 pick and NHL bodies to fill the roster at a cheaper cost, they're fulfilling all their needs, bud.

 

[le_sean]

Also, Tampa is not going to trade Sergachev to get rid of Killorn's contract (which isn't even bad). Yanni Gourde and Tyler Johnson are far worse contracts.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Also, Tampa is not going to trade Sergachev to get rid of Killorn's contract (which isn't even bad). Yanni Gourde and Tyler Johnson are far worse contracts.

But the latter have full NMC. Killorn has a 16 team no trade list. It may not be up to Tampa who they decide to move.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Honestly (and I hate to say it), Danault is a pretty good center for Lafreniere (until KK/Suzuki matures up). Lafreniere is a good replacement for Tatar. Trade Tatar immediately for another big asset on D and we are a playoff team.

Lafreniere - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Suzuki - Armia
Domi - KK - Ylonen
Byron - Poehling - Lekhonen

X - Weber
Romanov - Petry
Mete - Chiarot

Price
Primeau

If it's not obvious to anyone, our big weakness will be the RW for a while if we are fortunate enough to get Lafreniere. Armia is a bottom 6 player...Ylonen ain't ready, Lekhonen meh, Caufield need more time. So maybe you trade Domi or Drouin for a RW of the same age/potential (wondering if that's not Domi for Nylander).

Lafreniere - Suzuki - Nylander
Drouin - Danault - Gallagher
Ylonen - KK - Armia
Byron - Poehling - Lekhonen

Evolving into

Lafreniere - Suzuki - Nylander
Drouin - KK - Caufield
Ylonen - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Poehling - Lekhonen

Danault is a good center for Lafreniere but I have to keep saying what my approach is. I rather keep Danault with Tatar and Gallagher and improve the team while we have our vets around. Lafreniere is a game changer to me and I would get very aggressive trying to find a mature and physical center not named Danault for him to play with. Suzuki would be the 3C learning on the job and Kotkaniemi would either be 4C or play AHL working on his offensive game.

If a guy like Getzlaf was open to coming to Montreal for next season and a 1/2 year extension, you better bet I would trade our 21 1st, Poehling, and maybe Mete for him. You also seen the Kopitar talk and yeah, rather not trade Kotkaniemi but the point is you get aggressive to find a center for next season and not wait! Time is ticking with Weber which is 3 more seasons. I don't think it's smart to ignore the current vets thinking our team in 4+ years is better without them

Habs are one of the best teams 5/5 and if we fix our team D and add weapons for the PP, we are going to be a much different team than most think.

 

[le_sean]

But the latter have full NMC. Killorn has a 16 team no trade list. It may not be up to Tampa who they decide to move.

Thanks, I just saw that Johnson and Gourde have full NTCs as of today. They really shot themselves in the foot with these contracts. Especially considering they have decent young talent that can give them production (Stephens, Joseph, Katchouk, Raddysh).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well all we can do hypothesize about future values and give a range. Also, that $4.5M does away right quick with an offer sheet, from the Habs or other team which trading makes go away completely.

End of the day, Tampa need to fill a roster and need to raise significant cap. By shedding $10MM in cap and adding a top 10 pick and NHL bodies to fill the roster at a cheaper cost, they're fulfilling all their needs, bud.

Sergachev has to be willing to sign the offer sheet and remember, $6M in Montreal is like $4M in Tampa after taxes. If I am in Tampa's shoes, my play is to bridge both Cirelli and Sergachev on 2 year deals around $4M - $5M range. If you are the GM, you can find out how tough negotiations will be very quick and if both or one of them push for longer deals and higher AAV, you will at least know then that an offer sheet might be a real possibility

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thanks, I just saw that Johnson and Gourde have full NTCs as of today. They really shot themselves in the foot with these contracts.

Killorn has 15 teams. Johnson, Gourde, Palat all have full NTC. They need to move out $6M - $8M according to my calculations. If someone signs one of Sergachev or Cirelli to $6.3M deals or more, the $6M - $8M range to move salary goes higher.

So they have to move two of Killorn, Gourde, Johnson, Palat.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Thanks, I just saw that Johnson and Gourde have full NTCs as of today. They really shot themselves in the foot with these contracts.

No worries.

That's Tampa's problem. They're one of a handful of teams that are really going to be in the shit until they can maneuver a way out with very limited number of teams able to "help" help out along with St. Louis, Toronto, etc as well. These are the opportunities we NEED to take advantage of to fill out the roster and force players to come to Montreal because lord knows we can't attract them as UFA's.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Sergachev has to be willing to sign the offer sheet and remember, $6M in Montreal is like $4M in Tampa after taxes. If I am in Tampa's shoes, my play is to bridge both Cirelli and Sergachev on 2 year deals around $4M - $5M range. If you are the GM, you can find out how tough negotiations will be very quick and if both or one of them push for longer deals and higher AAV, you will at least know then that an offer sheet might be a real possibility

Who says Montreal sends the offer sheet? Plenty of teams can put one out which puts Tampa in a pickle. They may be better off trading Sergachev or Cerrelli proactively to avoid that situation all together and avoid the possibility of losing both instead of just one which would be disastrous. There's plenty of interest in both, especially Cerelli as a young center so Tampa might be willing to trade Sergachev to preserve Cerelli or vice versa.

 

[SOLR]

Danault is a good center for Lafreniere but I have to keep saying what my approach is. I rather keep Danault with Tatar and Gallagher and improve the team while we have our vets around. Lafreniere is a game changer to me and I would get very aggressive trying to find a mature and physical center not named Danault for him to play with. Suzuki would be the 3C learning on the job and Kotkaniemi would either be 4C or play AHL working on his offensive game.

If a guy like Getzlaf was open to coming to Montreal for next season and a 1/2 year extension, you better bet I would trade our 21 1st, Poehling, and maybe Mete for him. You also seen the Kopitar talk and yeah, rather not trade Kotkaniemi but the point is you get aggressive to find a center for next season and not wait! Time is ticking with Weber which is 3 more seasons. I don't think it's smart to ignore the current vets thinking our team in 4+ years is better without them

Habs are one of the best teams 5/5 and if we fix our team D and add weapons for the PP, we are going to be a much different team than most think.

I understand your approach, I just don't think it's palatable because it doesn't think it create what we actually need: a competitive first line. Getzlaf, Kopitar etc. are no longer first liners. It would be much better to take a risk on a young player like Suzuki to be the 2nd part of that line, even if you have to shelter both Suzuki and Lafreniere for a while.

I think Suzuki is part of that equation at some point with or without Lafreniere - Lafreniere just accelerates this.

I mean lets be real. If we want a cup in the next 10 years. We have to overcome a McDavid line, we have to overcome a McKinnon line, a Matthews-Marner line etc.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Who says Montreal sends the offer sheet? Plenty of teams can put one out which puts Tampa in a pickle. They may be better off trading Sergachev or Cerrelli proactively to avoid that situation all together and avoid the possibility of losing both instead of just one which would be disastrous. There's plenty of interest in both, especially Cerelli as a young center so Tampa might be willing to trade Sergachev to preserve Cerelli or vice versa.

Yes, another team can sign Sergachev or Cirelli to an offer sheet and I do think Sergachev is more probable to sign with a team not named the Habs.

A lot a play there with Tampa and step 1 is can they trade guys with the NTC's on draft day. If they can't, other GM's will be circling around looking to capitalize even more