Trade, FA, Rumour Thread, Summer Edition

[Jimmyjets]

I also highly doubt he's on the market, Toronto can't afford to trade a top pairing dmen.

I think they only move him if they think they can Tavares the situation and get Hamilton to sign as a UFA. Then you acquire assets and reallocate the cap to a better player at a premium position of need.

If we traded for, and managed to extend him, we would then have 2 of Heinola, Samberg or Stanley we could trade hopefully for a RHD. For example:

We acquire Reilly for 2022 1st + Torgersson (or some other prospect) and then we manage to extend him immediately (not sure why he would do that but, imagine it happens... 6 by $6.5M)

Then we go to the Islanders and trade our 2021 1st + Heinola for Pulock and also extend him (6 by $7M).

Then we protect JMO, Reilly and Pulock and probably lose DeMelo in the expansion draft but it doesn't really matter if it's Stanley or Appleton instead cap wise.

JMo - Pulock
Reilly - Pionk
Stanley/Samberg - DeMelo/Niku/Beaulieu

Then you likely can't afford Copp so you trade him to recoup the 2021 1st say to Detroit for the Capitals 1st.

I pretended Seattle took Stanley because Cap wise that would be the hardest to swing. I've already given out $3.5M in raises for next year to the new Dmen and we probably need another $2M for PLD so it doesn't leave a lot for many of the other RFAs so after season 1 you may need to move DeMelo.

Perfetti would come in on an ELC the following year too, but for this year there would still be cap to bring back Bro, Perreault, maybe Lewis if we wanted.

So making these trades only really make sense if we end up extending the players but hypothetically, it could be done and we'd be set on the back end for the next 5-6 years and then this window would be closed and probably a rebuild happens

 

[Weezeric]

I think they only move him if they think they can Tavares the situation and get Hamilton to sign as a UFA. Then you acquire assets and reallocate the cap to a better player at a premium position of need.

If we traded for, and managed to extend him, we would then have 2 of Heinola, Samberg or Stanley we could trade hopefully for a RHD. For example:

We acquire Reilly for 2022 1st + Torgersson (or some other prospect) and then we manage to extend him immediately (not sure why he would do that but, imagine it happens... 6 by $6.5M)

Then we go to the Islanders and trade our 2021 1st + Heinola for Pulock and also extend him (6 by $7M).

Then we protect JMO, Reilly and Pulock and probably lose DeMelo in the expansion draft but it doesn't really matter if it's Stanley or Appleton instead cap wise.

JMo - Pulock
Reilly - Pionk
Stanley/Samberg - DeMelo/Niku/Beaulieu

Then you likely can't afford Copp so you trade him to recoup the 2021 1st say to Detroit for the Capitals 1st.

View attachment 451564

I pretended Seattle took Stanley because Cap wise that would be the hardest to swing. I've already given out $3.5M in raises for next year to the new Dmen and we probably need another $2M for PLD so it doesn't leave a lot for many of the other RFAs so after season 1 you may need to move DeMelo.

Perfetti would come in on an ELC the following year too, but for this year there would still be cap to bring back Bro, Perreault, maybe Lewis if we wanted.

So making these trades only really make sense if we end up extending the players but hypothetically, it could be done and we'd be set on the back end for the next 5-6 years and then this window would be closed and probably a rebuild happens

None of those trades are realistic..

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

How much would it cost to bring in both oleksiak and Savard? Those 2 would give this team the nastiness we need on the back end.

I won't comment on Oleksiak but will on David Savard. After watching him fairly closely v. Les Habs in the final, it's obvious that he is the no. 6 D-man (time on ice, etc.) on this configuration of the Lightning. He is slow (looks overweight to me, not that there's anything wrong with that)....a younger version of Jordie Benn. Pass.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They already have Larkin who is still only 24, younger and better than Copp. Once they get him some support I have no doubts he will be back to a 60+ point 1C. Raymond is on the way and Zadina, Rasmussen and Veleno are still developing. If they stay the course they will be a competative team in short order. Especially if some of their other prospects develop into roles. I seriously doubt Yzerman is at the point hes going to make a panic move right now to try and get forward help for a team that really isn't desperate for it.

Yes they have Larkin. I don't see another top 6 C there. Plus I give them Heinola and whoever they want to draft at 17. Could be Ceulemans who might turn into the replacement for Seider in a few years. Fits their timeline. Does not fit ours.

We are both trying to read Yzerman's mind here. Maybe he is conditioned to expect to continue to get lucky in the later rounds. That is his experience as a GM. But that can't last. Lightning can strike twice in the same place, but not over and over and over again.

 

[Daximus]

Yes they have Larkin. I don't see another top 6 C there. Plus I give them Heinola and whoever they want to draft at 17. Could be Ceulemans who might turn into the replacement for Seider in a few years. Fits their timeline. Does not fit ours.

We are both trying to read Yzerman's mind here. Maybe he is conditioned to expect to continue to get lucky in the later rounds. That is his experience as a GM. But that can't last. Lightning can strike twice in the same place, but not over and over and over again.

Yzerman isnt going to rob Peter to pay Paul like was said earlier in this thread though. Hes not giving up his best defensive prospect and likely future #1RHD to get more forwards. Hes just not going to. Dont know how else to put it to you Mort. You can dream for sure but it's just not going to happen. Ceulemans doesnt have anywhere near the projection that Seider does. At least not right now. And he still has a bunch of picks this year to load up on more kids. The Wings have no reason to want to move Seider.

 

[tbcwpg]

Yes they have Larkin. I don't see another top 6 C there. Plus I give them Heinola and whoever they want to draft at 17. Could be Ceulemans who might turn into the replacement for Seider in a few years. Fits their timeline. Does not fit ours.

We are both trying to read Yzerman's mind here. Maybe he is conditioned to expect to continue to get lucky in the later rounds. That is his experience as a GM. But that can't last. Lightning can strike twice in the same place, but not over and over and over again.

Yzerman isnt going to rob Peter to pay Paul like was said earlier in this thread though. Hes not giving up his best defensive prospect and likely future #1RHD to get more forwards. Hes just not going to. Dont know how else to put it to you Mort. You can dream for sure but it's just not going to happen. Ceulemans doesnt have anywhere near the projection that Seider does. At least not right now. And he still has a bunch of picks this year to load up on more guys kids. The Wings have no reason to want to move Seider.

Agree with Dax. To add to it, Detroit has like 5 or 6 picks in the first 2 rounds this year. It's unrealistic on both sides - Detroit isn't trading their top D prospect on the right side, which is harder to find than the left side, and even if they did, it's too much of an overpay for the Jets for it to make sense.

 

[10Ducky10]

I think they only move him if they think they can Tavares the situation and get Hamilton to sign as a UFA. Then you acquire assets and reallocate the cap to a better player at a premium position of need.

If we traded for, and managed to extend him, we would then have 2 of Heinola, Samberg or Stanley we could trade hopefully for a RHD. For example:

We acquire Reilly for 2022 1st + Torgersson (or some other prospect) and then we manage to extend him immediately (not sure why he would do that but, imagine it happens... 6 by $6.5M)

Then we go to the Islanders and trade our 2021 1st + Heinola for Pulock and also extend him (6 by $7M).

Then we protect JMO, Reilly and Pulock and probably lose DeMelo in the expansion draft but it doesn't really matter if it's Stanley or Appleton instead cap wise.

JMo - Pulock
Reilly - Pionk
Stanley/Samberg - DeMelo/Niku/Beaulieu

Then you likely can't afford Copp so you trade him to recoup the 2021 1st say to Detroit for the Capitals 1st.

View attachment 451564

I pretended Seattle took Stanley because Cap wise that would be the hardest to swing. I've already given out $3.5M in raises for next year to the new Dmen and we probably need another $2M for PLD so it doesn't leave a lot for many of the other RFAs so after season 1 you may need to move DeMelo.

Perfetti would come in on an ELC the following year too, but for this year there would still be cap to bring back Bro, Perreault, maybe Lewis if we wanted.

So making these trades only really make sense if we end up extending the players but hypothetically, it could be done and we'd be set on the back end for the next 5-6 years and then this window would be closed and probably a rebuild happens

Reilly isn't that good. Look up what the Leafs' fans have to say about him.

 

[Bob E]

I think they only move him if they think they can Tavares the situation and get Hamilton to sign as a UFA. Then you acquire assets and reallocate the cap to a better player at a premium position of need.

If we traded for, and managed to extend him, we would then have 2 of Heinola, Samberg or Stanley we could trade hopefully for a RHD. For example:

We acquire Reilly for 2022 1st + Torgersson (or some other prospect) and then we manage to extend him immediately (not sure why he would do that but, imagine it happens... 6 by $6.5M)

Then we go to the Islanders and trade our 2021 1st + Heinola for Pulock and also extend him (6 by $7M).

Then we protect JMO, Reilly and Pulock and probably lose DeMelo in the expansion draft but it doesn't really matter if it's Stanley or Appleton instead cap wise.

JMo - Pulock
Reilly - Pionk
Stanley/Samberg - DeMelo/Niku/Beaulieu

Then you likely can't afford Copp so you trade him to recoup the 2021 1st say to Detroit for the Capitals 1st.

View attachment 451564

I pretended Seattle took Stanley because Cap wise that would be the hardest to swing. I've already given out $3.5M in raises for next year to the new Dmen and we probably need another $2M for PLD so it doesn't leave a lot for many of the other RFAs so after season 1 you may need to move DeMelo.

Perfetti would come in on an ELC the following year too, but for this year there would still be cap to bring back Bro, Perreault, maybe Lewis if we wanted.

So making these trades only really make sense if we end up extending the players but hypothetically, it could be done and we'd be set on the back end for the next 5-6 years and then this window would be closed and probably a rebuild happens

If you’re protecting JMo, Rielly, and Pulock then Seattle takes Pionk, not DeMelo or Stanley.

That fourth line is awful and would never happen, and Berdin won’t be Hellebuyck’s backup next year, so expect an extra $500k to $1M there too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yzerman isnt going to rob Peter to pay Paul like was said earlier in this thread though. Hes not giving up his best defensive prospect and likely future #1RHD to get more forwards. Hes just not going to. Dont know how else to put it to you Mort. You can dream for sure but it's just not going to happen. Ceulemans doesnt have anywhere near the projection that Seider does. At least not right now. And he still has a bunch of picks this year to load up on more guys kids. The Wings have no reason to want to move Seider.

I disagree. It is not robbing Peter to pay Paul. That would be Seider for Perfetti with a mid rd pick thrown in to balance it out. It is trading a top rated D for a top rated C + a top rated D ++. I don't know why you keep talking about more forwards. Heinola is not a forward and neither is a first in a D leaning draft.

Also you keep talking about all the picks and prospects that Yzerman has. Yes, he has quantity. He does not have a lot of quality. He has quite a few promising prospects in that they project to make the NHL. Not many project to be top players. Last year he had 3 seconds, 2 thirds and 2 fourths. The year before he had 3 seconds. This year he has two 1sts, one somewhat late, and three 2nds.

No, of course Ceulemans doesn't rate as high as Seider. But he is a possible 1st pair Dman in several years time.

And no, of course Yzerman is not looking to move Seider. That's why I am proposing to pay such a high price for him. He might still say no. He would certainly have to consider it and he might say yes.

 

[surixon]

I disagree. It is not robbing Peter to pay Paul. That would be Seider for Perfetti with a mid rd pick thrown in to balance it out. It is trading a top rated D for a top rated C + a top rated D ++. I don't know why you keep talking about more forwards. Heinola is not a forward and neither is a first in a D leaning draft.

Also you keep talking about all the picks and prospects that Yzerman has. Yes, he has quantity. He does not have a lot of quality. He has quite a few promising prospects in that they project to make the NHL. Not many project to be top players. Last year he had 3 seconds, 2 thirds and 2 fourths. The year before he had 3 seconds. This year he has two 1sts, one somewhat late, and three 2nds.

No, of course Ceulemans doesn't rate as high as Seider. But he is a possible 1st pair Dman in several years time.

And no, of course Yzerman is not looking to move Seider. That's why I am proposing to pay such a high price for him. He might still say no. He would certainly have to consider it and he might say yes.

It's just not worth it to me to part with all that for an unproven player.

I think we build a much better team keeping our two blue chip prospects and using other assets to fix the defense.

Looks to me Copp might be on the move soon if that signing today is any indication. Him and a first for a dmen and then sign another in FA and I think we are fine.

 

[snowkiddin]

It's just not worth it to me to part with all that for an unproven player.

I think we build a much better team keeping our two blue chip prospects and using other assets to fix the defense.

Looks to me Copp might be on the move soon if that signing today is any indication. Him and a first for a dmen and then sign another in FA and I think we are fine.

Who would you realistically target with #17 and Copp? Copp straight up probably gets you Risto or Dumba, so adding #17 should net you someone even better, no?

 

[surixon]

Who would you realistically target with #17 and Copp? Copp straight up probably gets you Risto or Dumba, so adding #17 should net you someone even better, no?

Not really sure what it gets you but if we can get something in the Dumba range without giving up the pick then I might just do that.

 

[snowkiddin]

Not really sure what it gets you but if we can get something in the Dumba range without giving up the pick then I might just do that.

I would think Copp for Dumba straight-up would be pretty attractive for Minnesota.

First, they need centres, with Eriksson Ek being the only decent one they have locked up. Copp as a utility player would have value for them. He's good defensively and they can use him on the wing too and/or in the top 6 if they want. They likely want to bring in a star 1C (maybe this ends up being Rossi) and then have Eriksson Ek at 2C and Copp anchoring their 3C kind of like how Lowry does for us. But in the meantime they can play Copp at 2C or on the wing in the top 6. They have the cap space to extend him, especially with Rask likely leaving in free agency and Dumba heading the other way. Even without an extension, they'll only have one less year of control on Copp than Dumba.

Then expansion draft implications. Spurgeon, Brodin, and Suter all have NMCs so if they go 7-3-1 then Dumba has to be exposed. Parise and Zuccarello also have NMCs so if they go eight skaters to protect Dumba then Spurgeon/Brodin/Suter/Parise/Zuccarello/Dumba/Eriksson Ek and Fiala/Greenway are protected, and you lose Fiala/Greenway for nothing. Rumour has it Seattle is playing hardball with teams and it'll probably mean the Wild will have to gut their team to protect all of Dumba/Greenway/Fiala. Considering last time they gave away Tuch and what he ended up becoming, I think they'll try to avoid doing something similar. They're sort of the inverse from us, where they have weak forwards and strong defense and can stand to trade a defender for a forward and then protect that forward (similar to how we can trade a forward for a defender and then protect that defenseman).

If they trade Dumba for Copp, they go 7-3-1 and Parise/Zuccarrello/Eriksson Ek/Fiala/Greenway/Copp/Foligno are protected and then likely they just lose someone like Rask (which actually helps them open up some cap for Kaprizov/Copp) or a UFA like Johansson. They have Calen Addison on the way to replace Dumba soon too.

I think Dumba is done in Minnesota for sure, the only kink to my proposed plan is they probably will try to trade him outside of the division before sending him to us. We're rivals, but we're good trading partners IMO

 

[surixon]

I would think Copp for Dumba straight-up would be pretty attractive for Minnesota.

First, they need centres, with Eriksson Ek being the only decent one they have locked up. Copp as a utility player would have value for them. He's good defensively and they can use him on the wing too and/or in the top 6 if they want. They likely want to bring in a star 1C (maybe this ends up being Rossi) and then have Eriksson Ek at 2C and Copp anchoring their 3C kind of like how Lowry does for us. But in the meantime they can play Copp at 2C or on the wing in the top 6. They have the cap space to extend him, especially with Rask likely leaving in free agency and Dumba heading the other way. Even without an extension, they'll only have one less year of control on Copp than Dumba.

Then expansion draft implications. Spurgeon, Brodin, and Suter all have NMCs so if they go 7-3-1 then Dumba has to be exposed. Parise and Zuccarello also have NMCs so if they go eight skaters to protect Dumba then Spurgeon/Brodin/Suter/Parise/Zuccarello/Dumba/Eriksson Ek and Fiala/Greenway are protected, and you lose Fiala/Greenway for nothing. Rumour has it Seattle is playing hardball with teams and it'll probably mean the Wild will have to gut their team to protect all of Dumba/Greenway/Fiala. Considering last time they gave away Tuch and what he ended up becoming, I think they'll try to avoid doing something similar. They're sort of the inverse from us, where they have weak forwards and strong defense and can stand to trade a defender for a forward and then protect that forward (similar to how we can trade a forward for a defender and then protect that defenseman).

If they trade Dumba for Copp, they go 7-3-1 and Parise/Zuccarrello/Eriksson Ek/Fiala/Greenway/Copp/Foligno are protected and then likely they just lose someone like Rask (which actually helps them open up some cap for Kaprizov/Copp) or a UFA like Johansson. They have Calen Addison on the way to replace Dumba soon too.

I think Dumba is done in Minnesota for sure, the only kink to my proposed plan is they probably will try to trade him outside of the division before sending him to us. We're rivals, but we're good trading partners IMO

Yeah I can see it working for both teams. If we lose Logan in the expansion draft we have in house replacement in Samberg.

 

[jamiebez]

I would think Copp for Dumba straight-up would be pretty attractive for Minnesota.

First, they need centres, with Eriksson Ek being the only decent one they have locked up. Copp as a utility player would have value for them. He's good defensively and they can use him on the wing too and/or in the top 6 if they want. They likely want to bring in a star 1C (maybe this ends up being Rossi) and then have Eriksson Ek at 2C and Copp anchoring their 3C kind of like how Lowry does for us. But in the meantime they can play Copp at 2C or on the wing in the top 6. They have the cap space to extend him, especially with Rask likely leaving in free agency and Dumba heading the other way. Even without an extension, they'll only have one less year of control on Copp than Dumba.

Then expansion draft implications. Spurgeon, Brodin, and Suter all have NMCs so if they go 7-3-1 then Dumba has to be exposed. Parise and Zuccarello also have NMCs so if they go eight skaters to protect Dumba then Spurgeon/Brodin/Suter/Parise/Zuccarello/Dumba/Eriksson Ek and Fiala/Greenway are protected, and you lose Fiala/Greenway for nothing. Rumour has it Seattle is playing hardball with teams and it'll probably mean the Wild will have to gut their team to protect all of Dumba/Greenway/Fiala. Considering last time they gave away Tuch and what he ended up becoming, I think they'll try to avoid doing something similar. They're sort of the inverse from us, where they have weak forwards and strong defense and can stand to trade a defender for a forward and then protect that forward (similar to how we can trade a forward for a defender and then protect that defenseman).

If they trade Dumba for Copp, they go 7-3-1 and Parise/Zuccarrello/Eriksson Ek/Fiala/Greenway/Copp/Foligno are protected and then likely they just lose someone like Rask (which actually helps them open up some cap for Kaprizov/Copp) or a UFA like Johansson. They have Calen Addison on the way to replace Dumba soon too.

I think Dumba is done in Minnesota for sure, the only kink to my proposed plan is they probably will try to trade him outside of the division before sending him to us. We're rivals, but we're good trading partners IMO

I'm not as convinced as most around here than Copp has played his last game as a Jet, but if he has, I don't mind this.

Gotta find a way to keep DeMelo, though, or I think we take a step back.

Wonder what the cost is to keep Seattle away from DeMelo in this scenario? 2nd rounder? Trade down from 17 to 33?

 

[snowkiddin]

I'm not as convinced as most around here than Copp has played his last game as a Jet, but if he has, I don't mind this.

Gotta find a way to keep DeMelo, though, or I think we take a step back.

Wonder what the cost is to keep Seattle away from DeMelo in this scenario? 2nd rounder? Trade down from 17 to 33?

Assuming we trade Copp, keep our 1st, and protect Appleton, I would gladly trade from 17 to 33 to protect DeMelo and Stanley and have Seattle take someone like Harkins, but I’m not sure that’s attractive to Seattle. Sign Armia. I can see Perreault taking a discount to stay here. Could still maybe find a decent player at 33, take BPA.

Connor Scheifele Wheeler
Ehlers PLD Appleton
Vesalainen Lowry Armia
Perreault Gustafsson Toninato

Morrissey Dumba
Stanley Pionk
Heinola DeMelo

Or we lose Stanley/DeMelo to Seattle and sign a UFA to replace them.

 

[trebendan]

I'm not as convinced as most around here than Copp has played his last game as a Jet, but if he has, I don't mind this.

Gotta find a way to keep DeMelo, though, or I think we take a step back.

Wonder what the cost is to keep Seattle away from DeMelo in this scenario? 2nd rounder? Trade down from 17 to 33?

I think if Copp gets traded before the XD, it may be for a draft pick or 2 instead of a dman. One of CBJ’s later 1sts might do it.

 

[WolfHouse]

Gonna be a super fun offseason when Chevy makes zero moves except for signing Kulikov

 

[tbcwpg]

Gonna be a super fun offseason when Chevy makes zero moves except for signing Kulikov

If that's the case I don't think it'll be for lack of trying.

 

[Jimmyjets]

If you’re protecting JMo, Rielly, and Pulock then Seattle takes Pionk, not DeMelo or Stanley.

That fourth line is awful and would never happen, and Berdin won’t be Hellebuyck’s backup next year, so expect an extra $500k to $1M there too.

It won't happen for sure. I'm just saying cap wise it could. It's not even what I'd want to happen I was just tossing it out there for discussion.

You are right that one of the trades would need to happen after the expansion draft though.

 

[untouchable21]

I think if Copp gets traded before the XD, it may be for a draft pick or 2 instead of a dman. One of CBJ’s later 1sts might do it.

This was my thought as well. Columbus can look to extend him or deal him at next year’s deadline for a 2022 1st.

 

[Bob E]

It won't happen for sure. I'm just saying cap wise it could. It's not even what I'd want to happen I was just tossing it out there for discussion.

You are right that one of the trades would need to happen after the expansion draft though.

Right. You can make the cap work, though you take a bit of a hit on the forward ranks.

 

[WolfHouse]

If that's the case I don't think it'll be for lack of trying.

Chevy tried at TD and last offseason... can you imagine what this team would be with Mark Stone as 2C? I just think taxes and climate hamper his ability

 

[Pongs21]

I wouldn't mind a trade based around Copp and Philippe Myers

 

[surixon]

I think if Copp gets traded before the XD, it may be for a draft pick or 2 instead of a dman. One of CBJ’s later 1sts might do it.

That could also work. Helps us manage the expansion draft better and we will have some extra trade chips around the draft when draft picks carry a premium in terms of value.