Trade, FA, Rumour Thread, Summer Edition

[WolfHouse]

Assuming we trade Copp, keep our 1st, and protect Appleton, I would gladly trade from 17 to 33 to protect DeMelo and Stanley and have Seattle take someone like Harkins, but I’m not sure that’s attractive to Seattle. Sign Armia. I can see Perreault taking a discount to stay here. Could still maybe find a decent player at 33, take BPA.

Connor Scheifele Wheeler
Ehlers PLD Appleton
Vesalainen Lowry Armia
Perreault Gustafsson Toninato

Morrissey Dumba
Stanley Pionk
Heinola DeMelo

Or we lose Stanley/DeMelo to Seattle and sign a UFA to replace them.

Our top nine does not look great without Copp... at least we know he can score - Appleton hasn’t shown he’s fully to six yet

I’m also not fully understanding why Minnesota wants to trade Dumba other than expansion draft - so then we need to expose demelo and Stanley and one of this guys is taken for sure

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agree with Dax. To add to it, Detroit has like 5 or 6 picks in the first 2 rounds this year. It's unrealistic on both sides - Detroit isn't trading their top D prospect on the right side, which is harder to find than the left side, and even if they did, it's too much of an overpay for the Jets for it to make sense.

Fair enough. I can see both of your points. Don't quite agree with either, but that is a matter of opinion.

But if in fact Jets can't get what they need, even by paying such a high price, I don't see anything but mushy middle for the next few years, followed by a rebuild.

We can't contend with just OK, or adequate players at key positions. We can't get outstanding players with mid to late draft picks. If we can't trade for them and we can't draft them, we are hooped.

I've been following all of the discussions about fixing our D corps and none of the suggestions that I can recall have been good enough. Not unless we can sign Hamilton - and we all know that is pretty unlikely.

Is the plan to draft a player who turns out to be much better than anyone expected?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's just not worth it to me to part with all that for an unproven player.

I think we build a much better team keeping our two blue chip prospects and using other assets to fix the defense.

Looks to me Copp might be on the move soon if that signing today is any indication. Him and a first for a dmen and then sign another in FA and I think we are fine.

You are not getting a true #1 Dman for that.

With Seattle there will be 64 top pair Dmen in the league. We aren't contending with a top pair of the 55th & 56th best Dmen. Or whatever we get with that. Where do Morrissey and Pionk rank in the league? Somewhere in that range, I would guess.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Gonna be a super fun offseason when Chevy makes zero moves except for signing Kulikov

I'd be pretty happy if he just made zero moves.

 

[MardyBum]

I'd be pretty happy if he just made zero moves.

Eh, I'd like a good LHD signed/traded for. I don't have faith in him playing Samberg/Heinola along with Stanley. So assuming Stanley is here and not picked, we need a better option than Beaulieu.

I don't want the opportunity for top pairing Beaulieu on his offside to exist if there's an injury

 

[surixon]

You are not getting a true #1 Dman for that.

With Seattle there will be 64 top pair Dmen in the league. We aren't contending with a top pair of the 55th & 56th best Dmen. Or whatever we get with that. Where do Morrissey and Pionk rank in the league? Somewhere in that range, I would guess.

No guarantee Sieder is that player either but your paying a package that treats him as if he already is one in his prime.

I personally don't actually see the need to pay an obscene price for an actual number 1 dmen. I think this team with our goaltending and forward talent can contend with a collection of real good but not elite dmen.

I also don't think we have the organizational depth to offer a 4 for 1 type deal either. We are loosing a player to Seattle, Copp is one year from FA and Wheeler is quickly aging out of a top 6 role. Our top 9 could be a bit thin as soon as a season from now. I think we need to keep and integrate our young forwards to keep that area of the roster strength.

I am more and more leaning towards retooling with youth while grabbing a couple of solid dmen to augment our group.

 

[10Ducky10]

For a true 1LHD or 1RHD, you'd have to add at least Perfetti and a first to Copper and then probably still be a bit short.
I've said it before, if Morrissey and DD play most games as well as they did against the Coilers in the playoffs, I'm happy with them as a pair.
Stanley, Heinola and Slamberg all fighting for a position and who does Chevy get to play 3RHD?
My choice...
JMo -DD
new player - Pionk
Stanley/Heinola- Poolman/Kovs/new player

 

[WolfHouse]

Oooohhh rumours that Nate Schmidt wants out of Vancouver - maybe we have a second chance

 

[snowkiddin]

Our top nine does not look great without Copp... at least we know he can score - Appleton hasn’t shown he’s fully to six yet

I’m also not fully understanding why Minnesota wants to trade Dumba other than expansion draft - so then we need to expose demelo and Stanley and one of this guys is taken for sure

I think it’s that Minny needs to trade Dumba or else lose him for nothing

 

[WolfHouse]

I think it’s that Minny needs to trade Dumba or else lose him for nothing

If I’m Minny I do four and four... their forwards are very blah

 

[snowkiddin]

If I’m Minny I do four and four... their forwards are very blah

If they go four and four they can only protect two of Foligno, Eriksson Ek, Greenway, and Fiala, which I don’t think they want to do given their poor forward depth.

It comes down to losing a decent player from a position of weakness (forward core) for nothing, or trading from a position of strength (D) to add to forward and lose nothing, or just losing a good defenseman for nothing.

 

[Classic16]

Oooohhh rumours that Nate Schmidt wants out of Vancouver - maybe we have a second chance

Pretty sure wpg is on his nmc

 

[tbcwpg]

Oooohhh rumours that Nate Schmidt wants out of Vancouver - maybe we have a second chance

NTC says no.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Eh, I'd like a good LHD signed/traded for. I don't have faith in him playing Samberg/Heinola along with Stanley. So assuming Stanley is here and not picked, we need a better option than Beaulieu.

I don't want the opportunity for top pairing Beaulieu on his offside to exist if there's an injury

I have a lot of faith in Heinola and Samberg. Moreso than Stanley. I don't think there are any LHD on the market that are better than Heinola and Samberg.

 

[surixon]

Our top nine does not look great without Copp... at least we know he can score - Appleton hasn’t shown he’s fully to six yet

I’m also not fully understanding why Minnesota wants to trade Dumba other than expansion draft - so then we need to expose demelo and Stanley and one of this guys is taken for sure

All the more reason to hope both Ves and Cole can step up and play in two key slots next year.

I think if both can we don't lose much upfront.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I think Copp ends up signing for a reasonable 2-3 year deal. That is good for the Jets depth, and if they don't want to re-sign him then he can be flipped as a rental for at least a 2nd rounder if not more

 

[Whileee]

I think Copp ends up signing for a reasonable 2-3 year deal. That is good for the Jets depth, and if they don't want to re-sign him then he can be flipped as a rental for at least a 2nd rounder if not more

I doubt it. He probably slots in higher than Eriksson Ek (Evolving Hockey projected him at around 10% more per year), and EE signed for 8 x $5.25M. Copp has arbitration rights, and unless the Jets get close to market value in their offer he'll take them to arbitration and he'll get a short, high-value deal. Unless the Jets see him as a core borderline top-6 forward, I doubt they'll go that high. But we will know very soon.

 

[Daximus]

I disagree. It is not robbing Peter to pay Paul. That would be Seider for Perfetti with a mid rd pick thrown in to balance it out. It is trading a top rated D for a top rated C + a top rated D ++. I don't know why you keep talking about more forwards. Heinola is not a forward and neither is a first in a D leaning draft.

Also you keep talking about all the picks and prospects that Yzerman has. Yes, he has quantity. He does not have a lot of quality. He has quite a few promising prospects in that they project to make the NHL. Not many project to be top players. Last year he had 3 seconds, 2 thirds and 2 fourths. The year before he had 3 seconds. This year he has two 1sts, one somewhat late, and three 2nds.

No, of course Ceulemans doesn't rate as high as Seider. But he is a possible 1st pair Dman in several years time.

And no, of course Yzerman is not looking to move Seider. That's why I am proposing to pay such a high price for him. He might still say no. He would certainly have to consider it and he might say yes.

Seider IS the quality that he does have though and he isn't going to give him up without a massive overpay and even then I think he probably hold onto him. It's hard enough to find good young RHD, even harder to find them with size. Seider is a 6'3 physical young RHD with two-way skill. Those don't grow on tree's. Think of it this way if we had a Seider in the system, we wouldn't give him away for anything less than a more developed version of the same player and even then we might keep him because he's cost controlled.

I get where you are coming from with value but the value of having a 6'3 RHD in your system developing well trumps anything else you can really give them outside of making an offer so ridiculous he has to say yes and that likely includes Ehlers.

 

[Daximus]

I would think Copp for Dumba straight-up would be pretty attractive for Minnesota.

First, they need centres, with Eriksson Ek being the only decent one they have locked up. Copp as a utility player would have value for them. He's good defensively and they can use him on the wing too and/or in the top 6 if they want. They likely want to bring in a star 1C (maybe this ends up being Rossi) and then have Eriksson Ek at 2C and Copp anchoring their 3C kind of like how Lowry does for us. But in the meantime they can play Copp at 2C or on the wing in the top 6. They have the cap space to extend him, especially with Rask likely leaving in free agency and Dumba heading the other way. Even without an extension, they'll only have one less year of control on Copp than Dumba.

Then expansion draft implications. Spurgeon, Brodin, and Suter all have NMCs so if they go 7-3-1 then Dumba has to be exposed. Parise and Zuccarello also have NMCs so if they go eight skaters to protect Dumba then Spurgeon/Brodin/Suter/Parise/Zuccarello/Dumba/Eriksson Ek and Fiala/Greenway are protected, and you lose Fiala/Greenway for nothing. Rumour has it Seattle is playing hardball with teams and it'll probably mean the Wild will have to gut their team to protect all of Dumba/Greenway/Fiala. Considering last time they gave away Tuch and what he ended up becoming, I think they'll try to avoid doing something similar. They're sort of the inverse from us, where they have weak forwards and strong defense and can stand to trade a defender for a forward and then protect that forward (similar to how we can trade a forward for a defender and then protect that defenseman).

If they trade Dumba for Copp, they go 7-3-1 and Parise/Zuccarrello/Eriksson Ek/Fiala/Greenway/Copp/Foligno are protected and then likely they just lose someone like Rask (which actually helps them open up some cap for Kaprizov/Copp) or a UFA like Johansson. They have Calen Addison on the way to replace Dumba soon too.

I think Dumba is done in Minnesota for sure, the only kink to my proposed plan is they probably will try to trade him outside of the division before sending him to us. We're rivals, but we're good trading partners IMO

Yeah I can see it working for both teams. If we lose Logan in the expansion draft we have in house replacement in Samberg.

From everything I've heard Minny will likely be asking for futures for Dumba.

 

[lanky]

the value of having a 6'3 RHD in your system developing well trumps anything else you can really give

If you believe this (I do) then you must believe that position matters on draft day.

There's a strong consensus on this board that position is irrelevant at the draft. It isn't.

 

[surixon]

From everything I've heard Minny will likely be asking for futures for Dumba.

Ok well I'd do Samberg for him then

 

[Jimmyjets]

Seider IS the quality that he does have though and he isn't going to give him up without a massive overpay and even then I think he probably hold onto him. It's hard enough to find good young RHD, even harder to find them with size. Seider is a 6'3 physical young RHD with two-way skill. Those don't grow on tree's. Think of it this way if we had a Seider in the system, we wouldn't give him away for anything less than a more developed version of the same player and even then we might keep him because he's cost controlled.

I get where you are coming from with value but the value of having a 6'3 RHD in your system developing well trumps anything else you can really give them outside of making an offer so ridiculous he has to say yes and that likely includes Ehlers.

I'd add that Detroit does have other options as high draft pedigree RHD. You typically wouldn't trade away your most likely option to get that though. There are teams out there, with Detroit being one of them, that I think we should target for a prospect trade because they have a glut of RHD.

Detroit has Hronek (23), Lindstrom (22), Newpower (23), Barton (22) and Seider (20).

They are likely banking on a top 4 containing Seider and Hronek long term so if we liked one of the other 3 and thought they had top pair potential we should target them instead. Lindstrom played 13 NHL games this year. How did he look? Newpower was an undrafted free agent signing but is from Minnesota. How did he look in the AHL this year?

We should be sniffing around teams like the Rangers, Sens, Islanders and Tampa Bay too.

I don't think it's Seider or bust out there and he isn't a sure thing to pan out. I just don't see why Detroit would trade him unless they felt very confident in their other prospects and we were giving them PLD or Perfetti+. It would have to be an offer they couldn't refuse right now to get them to pull the trigger which means a massive overpay.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I doubt it. He probably slots in higher than Eriksson Ek (Evolving Hockey projected him at around 10% more per year), and EE signed for 8 x $5.25M. Copp has arbitration rights, and unless the Jets get close to market value in their offer he'll take them to arbitration and he'll get a short, high-value deal. Unless the Jets see him as a core borderline top-6 forward, I doubt they'll go that high. But we will know very soon.

How did they (Evolving Hockey) project him vs Nugent-Hopkins? It will be interesting how it plays out. I was thinking shorter term since that usually would mean less money for less UFA years

 

[surixon]

I doubt it. He probably slots in higher than Eriksson Ek (Evolving Hockey projected him at around 10% more per year), and EE signed for 8 x $5.25M. Copp has arbitration rights, and unless the Jets get close to market value in their offer he'll take them to arbitration and he'll get a short, high-value deal. Unless the Jets see him as a core borderline top-6 forward, I doubt they'll go that high. But we will know very soon.

Yeah he's getting north of 5 or he's heading to arbitration and walking in a year.

I dont see the Jets being interested in him at north of 5 and I don't think they see him as a long term top 6 player with Perfetti in the stable.

you are right that we will find out soon but my money is on him being delt.

 

[Whileee]

Yeah he's getting north of 5 or he's heading to arbitration and walking in a year.

I dont see the Jets being interested in him at north of 5 and I don't think they see him as a long term top 6 player with Perfetti in the stable.

you are right that we will find out soon but my money is on him being delt.

Package for Dumba?

A couple of options...

Copp + Samberg for Dumba + Pitt's 1st
Sign Oleksiak as UFA
Protect Appleton, maybe sign Armia as UFA.

Connor-Scheifele-Armia
Ehlers-PLD-Wheeler
Perfetti-Lowry-Appleton
Toninato-Gus-Vesalainen

Oleksiak-Pionk
Morrissey-Dumba
Heinola-DeMelo